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Donnie Darko (Spoilers)

 
  

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dlotemp
22:13 / 17.11.02
One of the movie's saving graces is its humor which nicely balances the histrionics of the drama.

"Sometimes I doubt your committment to Sparkle Motion."

How can anyone watch that scene and not burst out laughing.

Overall, I have to agree that the movie does succeed on its own merits, and that the website is an important supplement. You learn a few things that further explain the movie, principally the text of THE PHILOSOPHY OF TIME TRAVEL, but you don't NEED it to appreciate the film. Director Richard Kelly has gone on to say that the wesite was meant to supplement the film. He also wishes that the website wasn't so bzyantine, but ...what can you do?

I think many of us have spent time discussing the minutae because we got the rest of the movie, i.e. the package, but there are some dangling pieces that taunt us with possible deeper meanings. But, the movie as a whole is well put together. The cinemaphotography is excellent, and the discipline behind the colors and lighting reminds me of THE MATRIX, although it used a different color scheme.
 
 
The Falcon
00:32 / 18.11.02
Well, that's the best time I've had for many years in a cinema.

Wow.

I just saw this the first time tonight, as it had only today arrived in Dundee, and I'm still quite gobsmacked.

Guhhh...

More later.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:34 / 18.11.02
Well, as I said way back, I didn't really like it until I saw the website which for me answered a number of the questions that the film doesn't answer, such as the significance of the fire and water, but I need things kinda spelled out for me...
 
 
The Falcon
16:45 / 18.11.02
Okay, here's my tuppence worth:

In the Philosophy of Time Travel, we are informed that 'artifacts' are 'often linked to religious iconography'. The artifact returned to the primary universe is, of course, the plane engine; but - apart from the 'water' and 'fire' actions Donnie performs, what else does he do?

He puts an axe into the apparently metal statue of a dog (school mascot?) Also when he gets off the bus, what does it say? 'Monnitoff rules' or similar? Does the dog statue have a name? It could be the science teacher's name.

Also the letter on the website is from Karen Monnitoff? Nee Pomeroy? That is Drew Barrymore's character, isn't it? And we see them in bed together at the end.

End titles: everyone's crying - Cunningham, Frank, the Darkoes. Frank's (bleeding) eye is also shining through the mirror as Donnie strikes at it with the knife.
 
 
The Falcon
16:47 / 18.11.02
Sorry - to clarify, Donnie appears, iIrc, to be hitting Frank's right eye with the knife.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
17:02 / 18.11.02
I have only two things to say about this film:
1) It was terrible. Awful, pseudo-scientific wank. The performances were hammy, the 'homages' pointless, and the ending pointlessly confusing.

2) I lied. I absolutely loved it. The above was my tangent response.
 
 
_pin
17:37 / 18.11.02
A friend of mine, unaware of the website, managed to come to a perfectly adequate conclusion all on his lonesome. So yes, it works by itself, but I feel it is beter with the book.

And the flash is on Frnaks right eye, which is where he is shot, BUT the knife stab is on the left of the screen, and that shot seems to be a POV of Frank's, so surely it is his left eye being stabbed...
 
 
The Falcon
18:17 / 18.11.02
Hmmm. Where is the knife? Left-hand side of the screen, yeah?

I can't remember now.
 
 
dlotemp
20:11 / 18.11.02
Obviously some of you missed the visual reference in the stabbing scene.

Yes...Donnie would have stabbed Frank's Left eye but the camera flips the shot so that it appears to be Frank's right eye, corresponding with his later fatal wound.

The scene is visually referencing the work of M. C. Escher who famously did a self portrait in which his reflection is seen in a glass ball, except the hand holding the ball is his left while the hand in the reflection is clearly his right. Director Richard Kelly has stated that M. C. Escher was an influence within this movie and Kelly's respect for Escher can also be seen in the fact that he has an Escher poster, specifically EYE, 1946, on Donnie's wall.

So - yes, screwy stabbing... but it's meant to denote how skewed the Tangent Universe is.
 
 
_pin
20:36 / 18.11.02
Bastard. There's even a portrait my sister did in that style that hangs in my school and I see every day. Bastard.

I still like my idea that it means it's a mirror, hence Donnie IS Frank, OR that it shows it's a film.
 
 
The Falcon
21:44 / 18.11.02
Frank's older; disturbed artist type, methinks. Could work - future Donnie?
 
 
Jack Fear
22:09 / 18.11.02
I thought Frank was Donnie's sister's boyfriend, so he can't be Future Donnie.

"I don't wanna fuck my family, that's gross..."
 
 
The Falcon
23:50 / 18.11.02
Was he? I must have missed that.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:50 / 19.11.02
Yeah, I got the same impression about Frank, Jack.
 
 
sleazenation
10:17 / 19.11.02
there is nothing that states frank is donnie's sister's boyfriend - its just they way that people ask here "where is frank?" that leads to that conclusion. But yeah i Figure that was who he was...
 
 
Jack Fear
13:26 / 19.11.02
It's one of those things I picked up on the Internet...

But I gather that it's explicitly revealed in the DVD commentary, and was expanded on in scenes cut from the theatrical release.

There's one shred of evidence in the theatrical cut, though: I'm not 100% sure, cos it's been a while since I saw the film... but at the very beginning of the film, don't we see Frank's Camaro as he drives off after dropping off Donnie's sister?
 
 
CameronStewart
16:53 / 19.11.02
>>>but at the very beginning of the film, don't we see Frank's Camaro as he drives off after dropping off Donnie's sister? <<<

Yes.

As far as I can remember (it's been a while since I've seen it too) that near the start of the film there's a note on the fridge from Donnie's sister saying that she went off with Frank somewhere, to get beer or something.
 
 
sleazenation
19:47 / 19.11.02
Its been two weeks since i saw it and i don't think we ever saw Franks car at the beginning of the film - it might appear on the trailer or in the DVD tho... and the note on the board about beer is during the party scene...
 
 
e-n
14:18 / 20.11.02
Could Frank "the artist" have made the Rabbit mask halloween pumkin for Donnie's sister and weren't the streamers srtrung around the party also little grinning rabbits?
PS only saw this last night.This thread has overloaded my brain
 
 
sleazenation
14:51 / 20.11.02
Well there is the school of thought that the reason Frank the artist fixates on rabits is result of his hazy memories of time traveling experience within and outside the tangent
 
 
Rev. Wright
21:38 / 21.11.02
Well it all sounds good, but my initial viewing of the film, sans any input from this thread or the website, was lame.
Very interesting ideas, some great moments, but lacking in intent and devotion. As someone else has posted here, it was lacking something, like when teh sound is just too low to take one's whole attention and you have to strain to hear.

The show and tell of the additional info from the website is very interesting and does go a long way to make up for the film as a sole piece of media.
I'm sure the producers thought they were handling something along teh Sixth Sense, Unbreakable lines, but I fear that the audience weren't that impressed.
I would however like to see the ideas continued and worked upon, maybe the DVD relaese will have that EXTRA DIMENSION.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:06 / 21.11.02
Yeppers. Thank God we have the DVD release to tell us what is actually going on. Imagine how many films over the course of this century have beeen hamstrung by the absence of a director's commentary to sort out all that niggling ambiguity.

Thank you, 4.7 gigabyte storage medium. With you, we are 4.7 gigabytes closer to completeness.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:59 / 22.11.02
I'm sure the producers thought they were handling something along teh Sixth Sense, Unbreakable lines

You mean a stylistically flashy but ultimately one-trick gimmick?

See, I think the difference with Donnie Darko is that appreciating the film *isn't* just about figuring out 'what really happened'. Those two films you've mentioned are good examples of what happens when you make that the focus of either the film or the interpretation, and they're ultimately quite unsatisfying as a result (not to mention really very simple). There is only one explanation, and once you know that, all the other possibilities are closed down.

I prefer to think of DD as much more suggestive and allusive than that, and not try to tabulate all the elements of the film into some kind of fix-it-all equation. But whatever floats yr boat, I guess...
 
 
The Natural Way
11:38 / 22.11.02
Yeah, and whilst DD is high concept there's much more going on than "let's chisel a story out've this great idea". As I said, my favourite stuff's the teen stuff, not the time travel stuff.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:12 / 22.11.02
No, what we should do is make everyone read 'The Invisibles' then write an essay at the end, and anyone that shows they haven't got 'it' (where 'it' changes each week and is decided upon by a panel of very clever people) gets shipped off to an island where they fight to the death, Battle Royale style.

Sheesh.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:14 / 22.11.02
Eh?
 
 
Rev. Wright
15:55 / 22.11.02
Being a film -maker and lecturer myself I found that being allusive to your HIGH CONCEPT subject matter is no excuse from making a film is engaging its audience. See DAVID LYNCH for examples on how to incorporate high concept and engaging the audience.

Donnie Darko did contain some truly entertaining and enjoyable performances and scenes. An example is the confrontation in the lecture being held by John Cunningham. Unfortunately tying together the suggested mythos with the lack lustre 'everyone remembers' ending was a wet fish. I wanted more Grandma Death for my entry ticket.

As Haus mentions 4.7 gig of DVD will surely include the web information, and bring what will bhecome a cult classic some new found life. Just a pity it couldn't have expressed itself better on the big screen. Did someone mention missing scenes...?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:33 / 22.11.02
I've seen all the deleted scenes on the DVD - there's quite a few, but they're all very minor things, nothing that would radically alter the film were they in there. Mostly little conversations and bits with the minor characters, things that were edited for time.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:27 / 23.11.02
the lack lustre 'everyone remembers' ending

But *nobody* remembers. What are you talking about?

Also, when I mentioned the film being allusive, I was referring not to the 'high concept' to the general themes of fate vs. self-determination, teenage angst & love, time travel, popular 80s movies - I don't see how you can miss those allusions. Donnie Darko is actually quite an accessible movie, and seems to have found an audience outside of the usual film/sci-fi geeks, in the UK at least...
 
 
Rev. Wright
08:46 / 23.11.02
If nobody remembers, then how come as we pan past Frank, he touches his right eye, John Cunnignham awakes sobbing with guilt and remorse, Gretchen connects with Mrs Darko?

I thought that was the point of Donnie sacrificing his life/fated destiny, leaving residual memories in those around him that could change things for the better?

Doonie Darko, sounds like the name of a superhero.
 
 
_pin
09:54 / 23.11.02
Gretchen doesn't meet Mrs. Darko in the Tangent Universe...

And the film really really does work as a film. It works without the website but being about time travel, it works as a dream he ahs before he dies. It works as a nice teen movie. All the people who I know who've seen it, on my behest, have loved it. And no-one can work out just why the therepist is. Beside the obvious need to show that NO ONE GETS OUR DONNIE. AND THINK HE IS WEIRD. Still, the scene where he wanks is funny, and was probablly the point where everyone stopped trying to take it so seriously and finally started laughing out loud.

Which is one of the best things about this film. I really don't think of it as aa comedy, but I do think of it as funny. Weird.

I also liked the bit at the start where the car drives past and the noise of it runs in with the noise of the guitar. I liked it at the time, but I like it more now that I can nod and go "Yeeeh... The 39 Steps"
 
 
Rev. Wright
10:24 / 24.11.02
And no-one can work out just why the therepist is. Beside the obvious need to show that NO ONE GETS OUR DONNIE. AND THINK HE IS WEIRD

I thought that the psychologist was there to be played against, Donnie's world of INsanity has credible links to the reality taking place, that cannot be rationally explained by science or the logical norm. When she starts to read the book, she has changed from attempting to bring Donnie back to the NORM , but instead takes a step closer to her patient. Thus we have the end hypnosis scenerios that leave Donnie guessing the motivation for the groin grope and the hug, being physical proximity and base elements compared to Donnies development of higher consciousness.

I really liked the super-nature element of the script and plot. I had wished that this element had been furthered, thus I draw upon the website to facilitate this.
 
 
sleazenation
10:55 / 30.11.02
Is Donnie darko actually a hollywood movie? or is it an independant american movie?
 
 
The Strobe
11:51 / 30.11.02
Is it worth delineating?

If so, I'd call it an American Independent take on what is typically a Hollywood genre.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:51 / 18.12.02
So I finally got to see this earlier today. A few points that nobody's made yet and a few replies:

Edward Darko, in the hotel room, mentions "Frank Feedler, from high school. He died on his way to the prom." Frank, of course, dies on his way back to the party.

Frank is mentioned by Elisabeth - she's walking round the house during the party and asks a couple of people if they've seen him.

Donnie's bicycle journey back home at the very beginning of the film mirrors his return to the Primary Universe. I'm not sure, but the spot where he's fallen of the bike (from his last sleepwalking experience before bunnyFrank interferes) might be the same place he takes Gretchen's corpse to watch the beginnings of the collapse of the Tangent Universe.

The first Gretchen/Donnie conversation takes place outside Jim Cunningham's house. The superhero comment hints towards Donnie's later actions causing Cunningham's arrest, an unknown vigilante.

Thee's a plush rabbit toy behind Donnie the first time he sees the space/time spears.

The second Evil Dead film ends with Ash getting sucked backwards in time through a portal.

A couple more ET references are the guy in the biohazard suit coming out of the Darkos' front door and the Hallowe'en lanterns on house porches at night.

"Hungry, Hungry Hippos" was the funniest line in the film.

There's something (a pumpkin? Certainly doesn't look like one) on the kitchen top between Donnie and Elisabeth in the scene where she tells him that she's been accepted to Harvard that's the spitting image of bunnyFrank's face.

Donnie clutches his gut in pain just before he gets into the station wagon with the dead Gretchen - is this the point where he's purposefully pulled himself away from his space/time channel and exercised - and proved the existence of - free will?

There are two points where the camera spins around Donnie: the one that Cherry's mentioned at the party and one before that when he first gets off the school bus. We come back to the school bus later, of course, seeing it as the final image in the reverse film section before the screen whites-out. I can think of a couple of reasons for this, the most obvious being that it forms a couple of bookends to periods of time in the film. The other is that the side view makes Donnie's emergence from the bus door look a little like someone stepping out of a coffin, but that could just be me.

Immediately after that reverse sequence, though, there's something that's out of place. We're presented with a couple of seconds of what looks like a family reunion scene, Elisabeth hugging Samantha and Edward embracing Rose, while Donnie looks on. What is this? What's its position in time or space? It almost looks like the safe return of Rose and Samantha from the talent competition they travelled to, but there are obvious problems with that idea.

Oh yeah, someone said something earlier in the thread about Monnitoff's name being written into the dirt of the school bus window. It's not; it's "Mongrels".

The stag heads in Cunningham's apartment are referenced later on in the painting in Kittie's bedroom, seen when we return to the Primary Universe.

Frank hasn't drawn the images of bunnyFrank immediately on the return to the Primary Universe. A couple of people seem to have got this a bit confused. He's already made the mask; these are design sketches done some time before any of the events in the film. The only reason we're shown them is to remind us who the guy is. He may have had some glimpse into the future/Tangent future, but, if so, that's happened out of the confines of the film.

The notes in The Philosophy of Time Travel don't have to have been written by Sparrow. Think about it. On returning to the Primary Universe the book is back in Monnitoff's possession. Those who've woken have some residual memory of the Tangent Universe. Personally, I think it's more likely that they're down to him (although this issue is very much incidental to the plot of the film in itself).

Notorious? Take a look at the lyrics. They relate quite well to Cunningham. Also, the dance that Sparkle Motion perform is overtly sexual. The exposure of Cunningham as a paedophile is necessary for plot reasons more than anything else; there needs to be something there that forces him to leave the scene to provide a basis to a number of plot strands, and it also reinforces the 'Donnie as superhero' side of things.

To whoever was playing I-Spy... Animals!: there are the aforementioned hippos and stags, as well as Samantha's unicorn toy (Ariel) and Donnie grabbing the toy dog in the psychiatrist's office (linking back to the pet dog that crawled under the porch to die).

The film? Loved it. Some fantastic stuff in these threads, too (I especially like Tann's bullet/eye/portal theory).
 
  

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