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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Donnie Darko (Spoilers)

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16:07 / 28.03.02

I'm sorry to branch the discussion off, but I have a question. There's a point in the film where Donnie appears to see a futuristic city. At least, that's what I thought it was. I don't have the disc, so I can't point out the exact time index, but it was kind of swirly clouds and large looking buildings. Argh. Not expressing properly.

Also, Frank would never have become one of the manipulated dead if he hadn't called Donnie out of the house when the engine came down. And it seems the whole point of Donnie collapsing the tangent universe was to save both Frank's and Gretchen's lives. Well, okay, not the whole point, but a definite outcome of his actions. What caused the creation of the tangent universe? Has this been covered and I've missed it?

Zoom.

18:56 / 28.03.02

"Frank would never have become one of the manipulated dead if he hadn't called Donnie out of the house when the engine came down. And it seems the whole point of Donnie collapsing the tangent universe was to save both Frank's and Gretchen's lives. Well, okay, not the whole point, but a definite outcome of his actions. What caused the creation of the tangent universe?"
--Captain Zoom

I *think* that the tangent universe is something that just *happened*. The continuum gets corrupted for reasons unknown; causality breaks down, delivering such paradoxes as Frank calling Donnie out of the house so that Donnie will save Frank after he kills him because Frank called him out in the first place. *blink*

"if he was killed in 1999, where does this put him in the movie's timeline? and in WHICH timeline?"
--Mystery Gypt

I don't think there is more than one timeline. If the Artifact was not returned to the Primary Universe, then according to the book, Bad Things happen. The end of all existence and what-not. But luckily for us and unluckily for Donnie, "the Ensurance Trap is successful [i.e., Gretchen dies, and] the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black Hole collapses upon itself."

Gretchen, as a member of the Manipulated Dead, ensuring her own death in the T.U. to ensure she lives in the P.U., is also paradoxical, but I think that cause-and-effect being turned on its ear is a side effect of the breakdown in time.

19:26 / 28.03.02

This reminds me of the good old days of Invisibles discussion around this place.

Yay!

Zoom.

19:38 / 28.03.02

more i think about it, the more i think one of the MANY levels of interpretation here revolves around the movie playing with the structure of film itself.

the description of the living receiver fits the concept of what a protagonist is in film -- someone who, because of events, his character (desire), and the people around him, is forced to make critical choice after critical choice until finally he makes an ultimately critical choice and takes an action SO drastic that everything changes permanently, the actions can not be undone, the world becomes a different place... and then the movie is over.

"manipulated dead" makes me think first of ACTORS -- or puppets, or players, or characters. it is certainly the job of characters to force the protagonist into critical decision making.

with this in mind, as well as the comments i made above about the countdown on the website, i would posit that in at least one interpretation, the Tangent Universe is created by the action of the MOVIE STARTING, and when that universe collapses, the film ends.

La Jette was definately about film, storytelling, and structure, and so even when working within the flimsy "authorial intention" mode of interpretation, i imagine a critique of filmic storytelling consciously found it's way in. not to mention it was a first time script from a recent graduate who wanted to make a big mark on film.

2001, in addition to darko, spawned both MEMENTO and MULLHOLAND DRIVE. all three were about memory and its destruction, and all three were most definately about the structure of filmic storytelling, at least in part.

23:33 / 28.03.02

Zoom, I think what you're referring to was not a futuristic city, but a not-terribly-well-executed vision of the flooded school.

23:37 / 03.04.02

I think a key factor in this whole movie stems form the Chat Donnie has with the science teacher...

Something to the effect of traveling through time with-in GOD's channel...

Perhaps Donnie Died, crushed under that piece of DC-10... but Devine intervention allowed hime to live on in the tangent unverse not in the way it worked for Jesus in Last Temptation of Christ but opposite. It could be implied that he was a miserable boy "hating life" and potentially "not Saved" thus destined for Hell. Yeah very christian... but wasn't most of the Movie? Thus GOD creates the Tangent Universe specificly to allow Donnie the chance to seek/create his own redemption. Ultimately, It was his choice to either continue down the path of the Tanget Universe where he could have potentially grown up to become an anti-christ equal to the one he "outed" OR choose a path of "love" (something he had next to no knowledge of at the onset of the movie...calling his mom a bitch an all) and save his soul by saving someone he "loved."

In this sence the 2 people who Died in the tangent Universe... Fred & Grechen served as Saviors/Martyrs for Donnie, who in turn played the same roll for everyone else in that TU. Back in the Prime Universe, Donnie reachs Satori is enlightened and goes to sleep/death content in his salvation. That night others awaken from dreams of this selfless act & in the Morning Rose Darko Meets Grechen each playing out the roles of the Virgin Mary & Mary Magdilane. On cosmic terms Grechen & Rose are connected via the Love of Donnie.

00:48 / 04.04.02

So far I've only listened to the commentary on the deleted scenes portion of the DVD, but in that the writer/director very plainly states that he sees the topic of the film as divine intervention. That's made somewhat explicit by the deus ex machina line at the climax, but the mix is pretty low there and I think a lot of people miss that utterance.

But anyway. The film means a lot more than that to many viewers, which is beautiful, but the guy what made it definitely had the hand of god in mind.

01:53 / 04.04.02

i don't think anyone can deny that it's about god and divine intervention. what makes it interesting, though, is the interpretation of WHAT GOD IS that's explored throughout the film.

20:10 / 04.04.02

Obviously he was the the Jogger in the red swets!!!

Regrettable Juvenilia

03:44 / 08.04.02

Just seen this, and loved it... Very moving on top of everything else. Loads of references to ET everywhere - 'Gretchen', the hoodie, the bikes, Drew Barrymore, the weird alienness of Frank...

04:14 / 08.04.02

Just saw E.T. for the first time since 17 years ago... what does Gretchen have to do with E.T.? Is that Gerdy/Drew? what does that name mean and what are it's religious connotations?

06:41 / 08.04.02

Flyboy - how did you see it?! I'm desperate to get my hands on a copy - to the extent that I've ordered a 'region-free' copy on DVD from Japan! Any pointers in the right direction would really be appreciated!

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:01 / 08.04.02

Whoops - sorry, her name is Gerdy isn't it, not Gretchen.

Tom, I'm in New York.

18:39 / 08.04.02

My flatemate has it on his PC but I need a 800mb CD so I can get a copy... Looking forward to seeing it though - nothin but rave reviews...

19:20 / 08.04.02

tom it's out on dvd in the US, you ought to be able to order from amazon.com or something, no?

15:53 / 15.04.02

Finally able to read this thread after seeing this last night.

So good.

So very, very good.

16:37 / 15.04.02

I told you so

17:21 / 15.04.02

So, according to the book, there's an Artifact, right?
Well, what's that? The plane engine? I guess so, but he doesn't seem to bring that back.

Loved the timeworm/center of gravity/soul things, leading people around.
I'm sure there was something to Donnie being able to see the sky (heaven?) when he looked into one at the party.

17:35 / 16.04.02

Alisdair Stuart gives an interesting analysis in his Opi8 column.

Lots to chew on there. And I want to say something about whether Donnie Darko bthe film, taken strictly as a film--i.e., without the website or other supplementary materials--constitutes a complete work of art in itself, or whether it's simply one component in multimedia project.

But I can't really be arsed now. Maybe later.

19:12 / 16.04.02

I'm not sure many films are that free of external hype - this one certainly has the "cult" hype mechanisms going for it, and the website really is a nice parallel text.
But it's not like Blair Witch - where the hype WAS the experience, and the movie just a footnote to the story. It's more like Memento - got good buzz, and a mysterious story that's further explored on the web and in interviews.

20:22 / 16.04.02

See, I think I disagree with that assessment. Web marketing is nothing new, true, but the Web-connection with Darko goes beyond marketing.

Given your examples (and they're the same examples I was going to use), Blair Witch was a functional artwork on its own--all the rules for understanding it were given in the film itself (specifically in the opening title card). Same with Memento: it's entirely possible to watch and understand the film using only the clues and signifiers within the context of the film itself. Same with The Matrix.

Which is generally how artworks with supplementary materials work: everything's right there in the art itself, and the artist leaves it to others (i.e., critics) to unpack it. James Joyce, f'rinstance, never provided a "schema" for Ulysses (not for public consumption, anyway); it was the job of literary scholars to construct one from the hints and contextual clues available in the work itself.

But Darko deliberately withholds crucial information. The theoretical framework in which the film's action takes place can only be fully understood by looking at the website, the supplementary material: it's barely alluded to in the film itself.

Which makes me think that maybe Donnie Darko the film and www.donniedarko.com are not two separate things, but two parts of the same thing.

Ugh. More later.

22:34 / 16.04.02

i don't remember feeling the wee bit lost when i first saw the film, sans-supplement nor anything else. i think you can judge the completeness of a film by its emotional resolution, and in this the film worked just fine. i thought it was farily clear what was happening throughout and by the end of it, when donnie sacrifces himself, the work of storytelling is done entirely within the confines of the film. he progreses, the climax of the film releases a complete emotional response from the viewer. "end of story."

if there is further nitpicking and metaphysics and larger plotting that happens outside the film, fine, but it's no more relevant to the film than an intricate knowledge of early 1900s urban politics of Los Angeles would supplement the experience of watching Chinatown.

22:47 / 16.04.02

(Same as above, except this time, the link will hopefully work)

I have yet to see the movie, but I did notice an article on audiogalaxy about the music featured in it: Audiogalaxy Article

07:31 / 22.04.02

Well I finally saw this at the weekend. What a pile of shite, pret...

Only kidding its great isn't it. Its been good reading through this thread and the website which really is very cool.

I'm just on the Cunning Visions website and got a 404 message, clicked on the "inform the webmaster" link and a bunny has appeared, its also opened up an new e-mail. I wonder what kind of reply I'll get

07:51 / 22.04.02

Darko deliberately withholds crucial information. The theoretical framework in which the film's action takes place can only be fully understood by looking at the website, the supplementary material: it's barely alluded to in the film itself.

Which makes me think that maybe Donnie Darko the film and www.donniedarko.com are not two separate things, but two parts of the same thing.

Does that mean that Lost Highway is half an artwork?

12:21 / 22.04.02

Haven't seen it: couldn't judge.

16:02 / 03.07.02

...for no other reason than having my head in the sand, I just saw the movie a few nights ago. As far as the website's impact on the storyline, I feel that it is a suppliment and adds slightly varying directions to go on. Also noted, Hi-Res did this site (an awfully pretty one at that) and did the Requiem for a Dream site as well. Was thinking after the viewing of Donnie that there was a little similarity between the two flicks...then to head back to the site and see some of the same constructs.
I didn't hear the commentary but the movie going with TLToC and Evil Dead definitely tied in some of the "director guiding some other story references" approach.

08:42 / 27.09.02

I caught this gem at the London Frightfest this summer and have been too busy to post (also saw Dark Water [by the director of Ring] and Spider [the new Cronenberg] - both excellent and meriting their own posts). I just have to say that it was the best film I have seen this year, but it does not seem to have been on general release.

The story is a bit too wierd to precise, let alone spoil. It does however mix humour, warmth and menace in equal parts. The nostalgia trip element is also important (it is of course about time travel) being set in 1988 with Drew Barrymore and Patrick Swayze (playing brilliantly against type) and great use of period music. The main character is a mid-teens boy who is troubled with psychotic episodes (falling plane engines and nightmare evil rabbits) - which may have resonated with me, given I was a mid-teen boy in 1988, albeit without the psychotic episodes, the falling plane engines and nighmare evil rabbits.

See it.

09:25 / 27.09.02

Not wanting to read the threadf for fear of spoilers, I think everyone should be told it got a general release in England last Friday. I hope to see it in March, when the island suddenly remembers that there is more to cinema then Harry Potter, which has been advance booking for months.

14:27 / 27.09.02

does anyone know if the director has done any other movies (I know Donnie was his first but since then) or if he has plans for something in the near future.

And does anyone else think he should be invited to Barbelith?

14:40 / 27.09.02

Ah so its on release maybe thats why all the little rabbit stickers are appearing.

XXII:X:II = XXX

14:58 / 27.09.02

My roommate and I saw this for the second time on Saturday night. It's still playing at one of the arthouse theaters down in the Village, and still plays a packed house. Fantastic fucking film; one of the best of 2001, my other favorite being Waking Life. Still haven't figured out what my fave of 2002 is; probably Spider-Man is in the lead, to take the other extreme.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

08:36 / 29.09.02

Finally saw it as well, and my thoughts (without seeing the website) was to take the "Last Temptation Of Christ" reference as my key to understanding the movie. All of the movie took place in his head as the plane accident happened.

It followed the same structure as Last Temptation, except instead of the Devil showing up and showing him what could have been if he would have turned away from dying on the cross, it was a man in a bunny outfit showing him parts of a possible future. However, since he KNEW it wasn't real, his mind rebelled and kept dropping clues to him that everything was not as it seemed.

13:28 / 29.09.02

Frank the Bunny= coolest entity Ever.

I can't believe some of you hep cats haven't seen this yet.

You can catch it at midnight in some NY theaters, so maybe the same can be said for other big cities.

19:43 / 29.09.02

Maybe of the greatest sci-fi films ever made. One of the few to dabble in time paradoxes besides 'Back to the Future'.

Remember the Hulk one-shot "Imperfect Future"?

That's one Frank is a ghost of the future's past.

Two fins up.

VR
Shark

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