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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

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Poke it with a stick

19:56 / 02.06.08

The thing that bugged me about the lighting in this was the backlit shelves - are these 51st century editions "special" because they don't mind being pressed up against neons for 100+ years?

Aside from that I thought the lighting was ok - the danger of overlapping shadows was dealt with haphazardly at best (and only when it suited the plot at worst) but, compared to the murkiness of The Doctor's Daughter, I thought it was a definite step up.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:34 / 02.06.08

Just watched it again a bit less drunk, and my initial assumption doesn't seem to hold water. Unless they do some weird cross-dimensional shit which it seems they may do anyway. But even then it wouldn't make much sense.

DONNA NOBLE HAS LEFT THE LIBRARY. DONNA NOBLE HAS BEEN SAVED. Sounds like online gaming to me. "Saved" or "saved"? But then the kid was just watching telly in her world, so that doesn't hold up too well either.

Either way, very, very good. Though as I may have mentioned before, they've nicked one of my favourite Borges stories (and I'd have loved to see a proper Library of Babel episode, with the infinite staircase and the implacable Librarians randomly destroying knowledge by throwing it down the middle)... but if you're gonna steal, steal from the fucking best.

I'm now all baffled. But it's a GOOD baffled. It's the kind of baffled that goes "WHAT THE FUCK??? Roll on next week..."

...that kind of baffled.

And I'm liking Tate. I'm still somewhat confused as to why they got rid of Martha ostensibly because she wasn't very popular, yet still bring her back in both series, and replace her with someone who seemed to divide opinion when she was used in a standalone (a friend of mine is firmly of the belief that it's because they'd rather take a chance on a white companion who MIGHT do well than a black one who didn't do as well as expected, but that's probably for another thread) but, after a shaky start with bits where she was ACE and bits where she was not-so ace (not that Ace, obviously), I'm liking her. As the Doctor's conscience, though, she does seem to be being painted into a corner, character-wise. But that corner appears to be widening- she's seeming more of a person than just a "oh noes! the Doctor is in a moral grey area! I must act and say things that are GOOD!"... erm, thing.

22:45 / 02.06.08

I had a huge, huge post analysing the lighting choices in the series since the first season. It was all written and ready to go, but it got arsed up when my browser crashed. Sorry guys, I'll have to deprive you of those pearls until I get a spare ten hours to rewrite it later in the month.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

01:33 / 03.06.08

I am saying this because gin has the better of me and if there are faults, they are my own:

Donna has more knowledge than we give her credit for.

She will not be a long term companion but I think she will give her life, or part of it, for one who was.

The third act is coming to the long close.

Poke it with a stick

05:04 / 03.06.08

Kali, that's textbook enigmatic.

Whisky Priestess

08:40 / 03.06.08

OMG SPOILERRSSS!!!

why can't you people stob stabbing my eyes with SPOILERS?????

(Seriously though Kali, are you speaking as the Delphic Oracle might, or from some solid knowledge of what will come to pass in this series or the next?)

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

08:43 / 03.06.08

Delphic Oracle who has to go to work here at six in the morning and is very very hungover and is poor decision maker.

19:17 / 03.06.08

Unclaimed name and girl-without-a-name? No prizes for guessing Cal's the girl's name, but CAL will also be some computer system acronym!

How can all those people be 'saved' but not there? Donna gives the clue early by speculating the books may be alive. River Song also goes on about 'spoilers' and has her book/diary. Cal is somehow rescuing them from the shadows by putting/ turning them into books. (Hence next ep is called Forest of the Dead, a library of people!)

After the nanobots story, the Library will be implanted in her mind to hide & protect it, and possible save on real estate costs, or some such. However, despite the Matrix-isms, I doubt one reality will turn out to be 'real' and the other not. There'll be some symbiotic sort of link between two reality systems (the Library and her imagination) without one trumping the other. Characters in both have allegorical sort of names: Dr. Moon, River Song. And what about the disjunction between that modern flatscreen TV and old-style bone-handle phone in the girls' apartment?

There'll be a 'moral' about not being some scaredy kid, hiding away in books, but facing down the dark. Moffet often has such homely morals, for example The Empty Child. They may sound trite written out like this, but I think they actually work well in Doctor Who.

More idle speculation: River Song will turn out to be tangental to the main story here but turn into a teaser plotline instead. Worst-but-quite-likely scenario, she gets offed and it all remains a mystery until later down the line.

19:38 / 03.06.08

How can all those people be 'saved' but not there? Donna gives the clue early by speculating the books may be alive.

Not sure about that. It was easy to miss it in the general rush of the intro, but Donna's comments about the books being alive was, I think, in response to the Doctor's search for lifeforms revealing a number in the billions. That turned out to be the shadow piranha chaps.

I also hope it's not that the books are people, because it feels a bit too obvious. Be nice if there was a more surprising solution.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

19:44 / 03.06.08

I have utter faith in Moffat to resolve this two parter in an awesome fashion.

20:10 / 03.06.08

Moffat's mind is a scary place, yes.

20:24 / 03.06.08

I didn't really think River Song would turn out to be a companion, but rather someone who gets to turn up for random episodes and two-parters, knowing different things at different times. Which I rather liked the sound of.

Aside from this; nicely cheap episode — the backpacks! — and not scary, because of some poor production choices, as noted, but certainly creepy, I thought. No?

I'm also going to cling to the idea that the house, as a whole, is the computer, and the girl is just The Little Flying Wooden Talking-by-Text Security Camera That Could.

And Stoatie; there's already been a sci-fi "Library of Babel"; Snow Crash. (It's a story about Pentecost)

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:36 / 03.06.08

And Stoatie; there's already been a sci-fi "Library of Babel"; Snow Crash. (It's a story about Pentecost)

Yeah, read it. Borges is still the best, though. Someone needs to make a short film of that story.

08:37 / 04.06.08

I didn't really think you hadn't, but raised it instead as a cautionary point about approaching "Library of Babel" creatively. Handled well, and quickly, it would be great in another medium.

Related: if Who wanted a go at Borges, "Garden of Forking Paths" would be the one, surely? Double Agent Cap'n Jack would be a nice end to the character, certainly.

08:26 / 05.06.08

Did anyone else think that River's big book o'spoilers echoed the Tardis with its blue panelling effect on the cover?

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:31 / 05.06.08

Did anyone _not_ think that? I'm genuinely curious.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

08:46 / 05.06.08

(repressing a giggle)

Thanks, Haus.

The Natural Way

18:56 / 07.06.08

I don't normally spunk it for the Dr. but that was such a brilliant two parter. Fuck me, Steve is so much better than Russell T. Bring on the Moffat-Who.

19:47 / 07.06.08

IT'S NOT ON THE BBC I PLAYER YET!

the confidential's on there but not the episode!

it's nearly 10 o clock...i may go mad

Poke it with a stick

19:56 / 07.06.08

That was pretty damn good in my book - Moffat even took the time to turn the arrogant git into a human being rather than just a curly-moustachioed buffoon by the finale.

And we got a happy ending wherein the shippers can still dream and the rest of us can breathe a sigh of relief that we're not going to get Dr and Mrs Who next season...

...probably.

Nice to see Donna's dream man wasn't too fantastic - she's been the most grounded companion so far and a Fabio lookalike would have rung hollow to me.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

22:46 / 07.06.08

I have not read your comments reading Forest of the Dead. I am ten minutes in and I say this:

Facepalm

How could I not figure out that Doctor Moon is an antivirus program? Apparently he sees the Doctor and River and the rest as viruses and acts accordingly. Erase the bad data to preserver the program.

Of course, if I am wrong about that at the end of this episode, it's facepalm again and much jeering from you lot.

00:45 / 08.06.08

Doctor Moon... try to remember... it's a rescue mission... the world doesn't need saving, it's people that need saving...

... sorry. Just got briefly taken over by a few old ghosts. Don't tell Milton, he gets embarrassed by that sort of thing and if he believes me to be a buster - even for a second - then I'll be joining those ghosts.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

01:32 / 08.06.08

Aaah. Not reading your reply, Seth. Not because I dislike you, I do like you, but I am thirty minutes in and aaaaah.

Steven Moffat makes my head hurt. So bloody brilliant.

Okay.

(deep breath)

Okay.

Finishing up. Will read everyone's reactions and will post my own.

(p.s., thanks for everyone being nice about my sort-of critical watching as catch-can viewpoint.)

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

02:08 / 08.06.08

No real questions answered, but I didn't expect that anyway. (It is the Doctor, after all.)

Cal being the computer being the little girl, no shock there, but nicely done. Was a bit disappointed the "Doctor Moon" was so easily found and then discarded.

Oh, the whole thing. Fuck. I loved it. It broke my heart.

(Sorry. Just took a moment to get another drink and found myself crying in the kitchen. Sorry.)

To love someone and have that person love you in return. And to know that the person whom you love knows how you will die. Heartbreaking. All those moments spent possibly talking silly little endearments that lovers do. (Prevaricating, yes, I know.) But one of you knows how it might end.

"New suit, different face," she says. Ohhh, hurt. But then again, what face? What suit?

I sort of got from her talking that she might've been the lover of the Eighth or Ninth Doctor, judging from her talk of "seeing the End of the Universe." It's easy for us to assume the Ninth's possibility, but then none of us were ever made clear about what happened in this Time War. I don't know. I would love to know the word she whispered in his ear. That word of comfort.

I'm sad and elated.

Thank you, Steven Moffat.

Let the mocking of me begin, loves.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

02:11 / 08.06.08

P.S.S. Was I wrong in believing that Donna's ideal man looked a helluva lot like Lee Evans???

06:40 / 08.06.08

I sort of got from her talking that she might've been the lover of the Eighth or Ninth Doctor, judging from her talk of "seeing the End of the Universe."

I'm pretty sure it's a later version of Ten she's been "swopping names" with. If it were an earlier incarnation he'd have remembered her.

Loved that episode though, especially the nod to The Doctor Dances. Everybody lives indeed. I did wonder why the Piranha-Bees-In-The-Darkness would let their only food supply teleport off planet but someone pointed out to me that they've obviously been surviving quite nicely by themselves for the last 200 years (lots of chicken drumsticks in storage no doubt).

I thought the set up for the various team members getting munched was really well done. The sudden realisation that they're standing stock still or that they've suddenly gone into a repeating loop. Bee zombie for the next companion!

07:24 / 08.06.08

I did wonder why the Piranha-Bees-In-The-Darkness would let their only food supply teleport off planet but someone pointed out to me that they've obviously been surviving quite nicely by themselves for the last 200 years (lots of chicken drumsticks in storage no doubt).

Ok, so I was wrong about Cal, but I think it was a good theory. Hard to say why they backed off. It was about the only thing that made me go "huh?" in the whole episode. My guess is that unlike every other baddie so far, they actually listened to the Doc, took time to size him up and realised his "no second chances" schtick was actually true, and it wasn't worth the risk to cross him.

08:20 / 08.06.08

Hard to say why they backed off.

"We're in the biggest library in the universe. I'm the Doctor. Look me up."

They looked him up... and shat themselves. Pretty much loved how they handled it, it felt like a scene out of a Western:

"That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed everything that walks or crawls at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you done to Ned...

"Any man don't wanna get killed better clear on out the back.

"All right, I'm coming out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any son of a bitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife, all his friends, and burn his damn house down."

08:40 / 08.06.08

"All right, I'm coming out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any son of a bitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife, all his friends, and burn his damn house down."

Jason Statham as The Doctor, I'm telling you it'll work!

09:08 / 08.06.08

finally seen it

crying and laughing

I love steven moffatt

Poke it with a stick

11:26 / 08.06.08

"New suit, different face," she says. Ohhh, hurt. But then again, what face? What suit?

Wasn't it "New suit, new haircut" or something to that effect? It was only his eyes that told her he was younger.

I guess this means she's either turning up in the specials; reappearing later this season or that Tennant's reluctance to confirm is just to keep media attention up for the show.

Incidentally, I was incredibly relieved they didn't even give us the slightest chance of lipreading the Doctor's name - that's not something that would have added anything to the show at all.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

11:28 / 08.06.08

Oh, I wouldn't have expected them to do that.

15:47 / 08.06.08

she's been the most grounded companion so far and a Fabio lookalike would have rung hollow to me.

Now, that statement is ironic for me in so many levels.

Poke it with a stick

16:56 / 08.06.08

Now, that statement is ironic for me in so many levels.

Care to elaborate a bit?

I'm not saying Donna wouldn't pretend to like someone like that, but what she got was a lot more the sort of man she'd actually go for. Or not, apparently?

18:02 / 08.06.08

Care to elaborate a bit?

I cannot. Not without revealing my true name...

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