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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

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21:57 / 08.06.08

Not much to say apart from,'That was fucking great!' Better than 10 Iron Mans. And i liked Iron Man a lot. That two parter ticked all of my Doctor Who boxes. I was genuinely creeped out. I shudder to think what an 8 year old made of it!

The only thing that could have made it better for me is if River Song told the Doctor that her real name was Zinc and that Sapphire and Steel have finally tracked him down and he's in for time-beating for all the shit he's been causing.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

22:30 / 08.06.08

I am completely standing by my opinion that, aside from the first series, this is probably the best series thus far.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

04:45 / 09.06.08

Nah, third series for me, what with it's second half made entirely of win. This is 'The Doctor Dances' and this season has only been broadly 'okay'.

I'd hope we see Professor River Song a few more times over the years (we could certainly have the Doctor meeting her for what is, for her, the first time) but I doubt we'll see the whole falling in love relationship though Moffat is very careful to leave open the exact nature of what goes on between the two.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

08:34 / 09.06.08

I'll give you the second half of the third series for the most part--though I quickly grew weary of Martha's fawning--but this series is finally where we have a Companion on more equal footing and thus no need to develop an unrequited love for the Doctor.

12:21 / 09.06.08

Loved that episode to bits. Tears followed by laughter at the ending. Glad I watched it alone. And the bit where non-Fabio wasn't able to shout for Donna...glorious.

Before catching it I'd been watching episode one of series one of Press Gang. Steve Moffatts come a long way in twenty years...

12:58 / 09.06.08

I don't know - they've been making it painfully obvious throughout the season so far that Donna's story isn't going to end well, so that felt a bit too cruel.

Really liked this episode, thought it rectified a lot of my complaints with the first. CGI on the squareness gun, both times it was used, looked kind of weird - like they didn't get the perspective quite right - but then, it's a squareness gun, so I'm not going to get tied in knots over that.

And how nice was it to have an ep that wasn't completely drowned by Murray fucking Gold? It's clearly too much to hope that this new-found appreciation for quietness will carry through to subsequent episodes, but it was a blessed relief to actually be able to hear what people were saying to each other and to have at least some of the drama be carried by the actors on their own, without an overbearing score throttling the subtlety out of every single scene.

Whisky Priestess

14:33 / 09.06.08

Come now, the man's got to earn his crust. Although he is indeed the composer I would pay not to write.

Does everyone else in the world know what the "only time" the Doctor could or would reveal his name would be? I'm guessing at the point of death or (outside shot) during a marriage or christening type ceremony.

In the first instance it would mean that River has seen him die/regenerate, in the second ... SPOILERS!

15:09 / 09.06.08

Does everyone else in the world know what the "only time" the Doctor could or would reveal his name would be?

When drunk?

15:49 / 09.06.08

SPOILER WARNING FOR TAD WILLIAMS OTHERLAND (comparisons to last Who episode)

As someone who's not contributed to the Who debate before I venture cautiously into these waters to make an observation. Having read Tad Williams four book epic Otherland, I couldn't help but draw parallels to Moffat's story, in particular the use of a child as a conduit to a world. Granted, the child in this case was saved from death by becoming CAL whereas the host for 'Otherworld' in William's books was purely a brain ripped from a child's body at birth. But there are comparisons, in particular the depositing of River at the end into some kind of heaven after death (if indeed she is dead, I'm not really clear), much like what happens with the ending of the "Sea of Silver Light" where the dead are able to live in utopia within the computer system, whole and hearty of body. Then there's the supercomputer harvesting earth's children.

Perhaps that's why I found it difficult to like these episodes overmuch. Though I did like the death mask library aides, that was a neat idea.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:11 / 09.06.08

I'm going with the fact that obviously he and River Song were married, hence the observation that they argued like an old married couple, and neither of them disagreed or objected to it.

Poke it with a stick

18:49 / 09.06.08

Just read an interesting comment on the incredibly fan-wanky livejournal board where someone suggested that River Song's incessant use of the word "spoilers" could well have stemmed from the Doctor using that same word during the time she knew him.

I like the idea of Moffat giving them an in-joke from the time they've spent together before they've actually had it.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

19:56 / 09.06.08

I can dig that, very much so.

Randy brought up something I meant to talk about: about how Donna's story seems destined to end really badly. Man, the one sensible Companion and apparently she's screwed.

20:31 / 09.06.08

Of course, the same doom and gloom was cast over Rose as season 2 drew to a close...

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

22:28 / 09.06.08

It doesn't seem so much doom and gloom to me as it does bad luck. Her wedding didn't work out, her family life--aside from her grandfather--isn't so great, etc. She just sounds very unlucky.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:51 / 10.06.08

teleute- you might want to put an "Otherland spoilers" warning... I've only read the first book...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:08 / 10.06.08

The 'Donna is doomed' vibe doesn't work for me, why would the Doctor mention her to River if Donna just stopped travelling with him before he met River? Admittedly Rose was the ghost hanging over Martha's shoulders but he's barely mentioned her to Donna (Christmas special and first ep I think), if River's diary just covers when they met then it won't necessarily have any of his companions in it, unless they were travelling with him at the time.

Poke it with a stick

08:47 / 10.06.08

There's also the possibility that River was feeling a bit of companion anxiety - Martha spent much of the first half of last season looking forlorn when the Doctor mentioned Rose - perhaps that's how River felt it was with Donna (admittedly in a definitely not a couple way)?

Jealously misread as foreshadowing?

10:31 / 10.06.08

Stoatie: you might want to put an "Otherland spoilers" warning... I've only read the first book...

Apologies - I didn't think as it wasn't specifically a Who spoiler. Will do an edit.

It also occured to me last night that perhaps part of my disengagement with this Who series may be fourth series-itis. I was watching an episode of Buffy season 4, which is my least favourite of the seven as it lost momentum following the great events of the previous three, had lost key characters (Angel and Cordelia) and hadn't really gelled into it's new phase of Buffy does College with Teutonic Love Toy. This season of Who feels pretty similar.

Perhaps season five will find a catalyst, much like Dawn, to draw neat story lines together. I'm not finding Tate that catalyst. Hopefully it won't emulate the X-Files which went woefully down hill after season 3.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:11 / 10.06.08

No probs teleute- it's easily done when you're talking about something else.

16:01 / 10.06.08

The 'Donna is doomed' vibe doesn't work for me, why would the Doctor mention her to River if Donna just stopped travelling with him before he met River?

Maybe the end of her story's just really, really nasty. The girl in the family in Fires of Pompeii said something to her during a vision that suggested there was a whole heap of shit hanging over Donna's head, just waiting to dump itself.

All Acting Regiment

18:26 / 10.06.08

When River song kisses the kids goodnight, there are three beds.

Fucking excellent episode, by the way.

18:59 / 10.06.08

Not sure what point you're trying to make there. The three beds are for CAL and the two kids who were endlessly replicated by CAL, so presumably children she knew before her illness.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

20:25 / 10.06.08

I noticed the three beds thing, but I automatically assumed one of them was for Donna or for River. Gah. Memory's a bit fuzzy so I'll have to take your word that it was in River's "vision" that there were three beds. I don't know if I would agree that one of them was Cal's, though.

Poke it with a stick

22:16 / 10.06.08

I think AAR could be right from my hazy recollections - when Donna was in the room there were only two beds, but by the time River appeared, there were three.

Whether one of them was CAL, I'm not sure, in all honesty.

22:40 / 10.06.08

Just checked and yes, Cal is definitely the third. Also just got a little shiver from the last line, "sweet dreams, everyone," delivered straight to camera.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

04:41 / 11.06.08

I really need to watch that again. Will do straightaway.

16:00 / 11.06.08

I'm sure people watch this show with their eyes half-closed.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:44 / 11.06.08

I watch it with my eyes closed, in another room, with my fingers in my ears, humming the Bavarian national anthem loudly. It's the only way to maintain the purity of my vision.

23:59 / 11.06.08

And how nice was it to have an ep that wasn't completely drowned by Murray fucking Gold?

I may be in a minority here, but I think he's a great composer. He has written some wonderful melodies and themes for the show, Doomsday, the Doctor's various themes and this week, the beautiful electronic library music. It's possible that the music is over-instrumented occasionally, but that's not his fault, it's his arranger and Torchwood composer Ben Foster's fault. If it's too loud, then that's down to the producers and editors who decide the sound mix during the editing process (or, as has often been noted, your own tv's got screwed up sound). The amount of slack he because of writing epic music for a show whose scope is very frequently epic is absolutely bizarre. It's the same as complaining about the function of John Williams' music in Star Wars, or Howard Shore's score in the Lord of the Rings.

09:01 / 12.06.08

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the score for this episode immensely; the way that an almost dubsteppy riff was playing during the CAL institute and playground sequences, v nice and sparsely suspenseful...good stuff.

The use of incidental music to isolate the tones of the different scenes flashing past on the TV as CAL changed channels was a really nice touch too.

*has sudden flashback to Keff McCulloch and shivers....

09:45 / 12.06.08

notlookingnotlookingnotlooking...

Haven't seen the second part of the Library double episode yet, but didn't anyone else get heavy impressions of The Time Traveller's Wife between The Doctor and Song from the first? Or to paraphrase Haus, did anyone (whoever's read it presumably) not? I wonder if Niffennegger is amused or cross (or oblivious of course).

Not scary, but enjoyed this much more than previous episodes this series, interesting ideas, great set, gurning kept to a minimum, the weird Doctor is amazing / tragic / irresitable theme not quite so much at the forefront as some of the other episodes. Grand really.

The occassionally joyous but more often annoyingly repetitive worship of either a) the tragic doctor b) the life of of grand cosmic adventuring c) various historical figures of genius have soured this series and the last for me - I realise it might work for some people here, and fair enough, but it stopped being refreshing a while back personally. One of the thoughts on the last episode (Unicorn/Wasp) was that - apart from a ruddy great cgi wasp not being frightening - they could really do with going back and meeting a genuius who didn't quite so fit into the uncomplicated New Who morality of being evil/selfish or benign goodies whose creative power the Doctor harnesses to save the world/plot, e.g. Dickens, Shakespeare, Christie. What if they went back and met a real bastard? What if we got Hemingway?

11:39 / 12.06.08

Would be absolutly amazing (if written by the God Moffit

) .

However from a charcter point of view , the season is showing the Doctors visage as being just a man in a Time Box slipping a few times , in Family of Blood (his wraith of a Time Lord ) and how he handled and ordered the swarm to back off or essentialy face utter destruction. Doh yes Famil of Blood was last season oops !!!

Its nice every now and again to be reminded his not just a slightly mad human in a natty suit.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

15:47 / 12.06.08

Ooo'er, there need to be more slightly mad men in natty suits IMHO.

15:54 / 12.06.08

The amount of slack he because of writing epic music for a show whose scope is very frequently epic is absolutely bizarre.

Dude. He writes epic music for every single second of the show, regardless of what people are doing on the screen at the time. And then the editor and/or director invariably decides to play it all at an epic volume.

There's never a break from it. There's always some theme or other playing, and it's simply unnecessary.

19:34 / 12.06.08

I think this criticism of Murray is unfounded particu- DUN DUN DUNDUNDUN DUN DUH DAH! DUN DUN DAH NAH NAH NAH! - in the context of the sc *DUN DOOOOOO NER NAH NAAAAAAAAAAAAAH* - you see.

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