BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

Page: 1 ... 45678(9)1011121314... 28

 
 
Lama glama
11:50 / 25.05.08
I base my opinion of trigger-happy Rose on the fact that in the trailer we've seen her dispassionately walking away from a rather impressive explosion. She was also wielding a gun at several moments in the trailer. Plus, isn't she probably the head of Pete's World Torchwood? I know Martha is the medical officer of UNIT, but isn't being in command of a factory raid sort of outside such an officer's common practices? Also, she killed all of those pig people last year, which must not have been very pleasant for her? So, what I'm saying is, despite the Doctor's outward preference for peaceful methods, doesn't he seem to have a tendency to drive his past companions into violent situations and organisations?
 
 
Rev. Orr
12:39 / 25.05.08
But isn't the whole point of Newho to have one's cake and eat it too? Militarised companions is merely a side-effect of wanting to have 'splosions to run away from and nice-looking folks in combat trousers to fire at the doctor from three feet away and miss AND have Ten say something clunkily pacifistic ("A Man who NEVAH WOULD!") in every episode. They've written themselves into a contradiction by taking a character that was, at best, an outsider in his society* and at times an outcast or renegade who had a strong aversion to authority, violence and the military solution - and then making him the Galifreyan Field Marshall or some such.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in that planning meeting:

Time Lord 1: We're receiving reports of Dalek incursions across all Time and Space.
Time Lord 2: Bugger.
Time Lord 1: There is no other solution, Chancellor, we must mobilise our entire culture to a war footing.
Time Lord 2: But we don't have an army - we've progressed beyond conflict. That's why it's so fucking dull around here.
Chancellor: Not to fear, gentlemen. I have a cunning plan.
Time Lord 1: This is going to suck badly, isn't it?
Chancellor: Moving on. Despite being a career politician at the zenith of personal authority, I have decided to hand over the reins of power to an un-elected ex-criminal with no experience.
Time Lord 1: Who?
Chancellor: Yes.
Time Lord 2: There's no way we're doing that tired old joke. Anyway, isn't he a senile, crotchety old coot?
Time Lord 1: No, he regenerated. He's now a recorder playing simpleton who looks like one of the three stooges.
Chancellor: Actually, he's been getting through bodies at quite a rate since then. So far we've had a grey-haired dandy, a booming loon - all teeth, curls and scarf, an effete public-schoolboy, a round-faced misanthrope, a machiavellian dwarf, a pretty-boy who no-one remembers and a bi-polar northerner with a chip on the shoulder of his leather jacket. He's currently a geek-chic gurner.
Time Lord 1: Don't you mean he will be - after we're all wiped out under his command?
Chancellor: Is, will be, how the fuck should I know, I'm only a Time Lord.


I think the Doctor's pacifism is currently supposed to be an indication of how he is CONFLICTED ABOUT HIS TRAGIC PAST!!!!! And there is a collective assumption that a) pacifism=lack of conflict=bad drama and b) there is no moral conflict or hypocrisy involved in being a pacifist but keeping warriors around to do the fighting for you.

* I'm discounting his election to leadership in The Five Doctors because... well, because it's worth ignoring and made bugger all sense.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:31 / 25.05.08
Oh, okay, so the Rose one is based on a trailer which I haven't seen so can't comment on so we'll wait until next Saturday to see the scenes in context, and Martha wasn't in charge of the UNIT raid, at the very least there was Colonel Mace who was more senior than her, she seemed to be doing just medical things before the Sontarans captured her. If you want to suggest she's Ellen Ripley because she electrocuted a few pig-men (who IIRC were defined as near mindless slaves who the Daleks had robbed of free will) then I'm going to suggest Ian Chesterton is locked up at the same institution as Ian Brady because he ripped a couple of Robomen's helmets off back in the day.
 
 
Lama glama
16:49 / 25.05.08
I'm not suggesting that their militarisation (which isn't even a word, I think) makes their characters bad people. I was just sort of pointing out something which I considered might be an emerging theme for the season, war and conflict and its affects on those involved: We've had the Sontaran/Unit conflict, the Hath/Human/Jenny stuff.
 
 
Seth
20:17 / 25.05.08
On the contradictions of the Tenant Doctor, from another message board:

It occurs to me that we may now be seeing a different kind of Doctor because he no longer has any accountability for his actions. No peers, no other Timelords. Whereas Eccleston’s Doctor seemed to only just be getting used to the guilt and grief of losing everything, Tennant’s Doctor is potentially much more calculating and cynical beneath his studied carefree facade. He is prone to going to extremes because he has a newfound freedom to do whatever the hell he likes and get away with it, and being the last of his kind he is enjoying seeing himself as effectively godlike rather than just one of many beings of similar power. He justifies this through whatever excuse is available at the time, whether that’s the Yahweh of Job routine or they’ll-never-fully-understand-the-explanation-anyway misdirection. I kinda like that while he might even have made himself believe that Peter Davidson was HIS Doctor, beneath the surface he’s much more akin to the devious, dangerous Sylvester McCoy. While much of this is admittedly my own reading between the lines it’s at least confirmed a little in the text when The Doctor recognises the truth behind Donna’s statement that he needs someone else to stop him from going too far, leading him to accept her nature as an irritant to him because he knows he needs an external conscience. That he then repeatedly tries to wow her into semi-infancy using the same tactics he used on Rose and Martha point to him being conflicted regarding his need for emotional stability/regulation versus his tendency to powerplays and imposing vicious punishment. To her credit I think Donna realises that they’re both walking that fine line and has the strength to at least attempt to be what is required, although there might come a time when she realises that she’s only allowed to play that game at The Doctor’s will/whim.

... Perhaps I overstated the similarity between the Seventh and Tenth Doctors. While Seven carried out grand scale manipulations against his enemies Ten seems to have reverted to the teenage tendency to party when the parents are away and is prone to necking everything in the drinks cabinet, flirting with his guests and trashing the house. Maybe that’s partly a grief reaction too. If it’s what the writers are aiming for then it’s a neat way to give us a character that can deliver the swashbuckling Saturday evening entertainment while carrying undertones of something nastily other when you start to put the pieces together.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
04:39 / 26.05.08
Well done to that poster, Seth, and thanks for posting that. It seems to sum up what I think this Doctor is a bit about as well.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
09:59 / 26.05.08
There's always been a conflict between The Doctors words and his actions. If you go right back to the first Dalek serial the peaceful Thals are incited to violence to solve their problems.

I remember reading somewhere that Survival made a surprisingly good thematic closure for the series as not only does it see him returning someone home (as opposed to taking them away in the first episode) it sees The Doctor win by rejecting violence.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:33 / 26.05.08
Yes, but it also sees the Doctor survive a motorbike collision by landing on a discarded sofa.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
08:00 / 28.05.08
Well yeah. It's also got Hale and Pace in it.

I ermember now that it was Cornell/Topping/Days discontinuity guide which said Survival is a thematically satisfying end for the original series.
 
 
Triplets
18:35 / 31.05.08
That was brill.

The ghosting of Evangelista was horrible as fuck.

Clearly the 4022 that got rescued but disappeared were saved within the fleshbanks. The teleport system jury-rigged to pop people into their when no other method was available to get people off-world. Or off-library.

Great sets in this one. Loved the D & D looking out on the empty Library Planet at the beginning. Library streets, fulla books. Street signs as section signs. The contrast of new, futuristic planet and old books was potent.

Also, like the idea that dust, like the dust you find in old, proppa traditional libraries, is the monster. Yes.
 
 
Triplets
18:38 / 31.05.08
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't hate the joy of life.

Although when hating an episode of Doctor Who equalled that... well, I must not have got the memo.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
18:56 / 31.05.08
@ I am a bat. I am a man Seconded - Brill it most certainly was.

Hence the name change.

As Tennant said in the Confidential, Moffat's aim appears to be to make children wet the bed and damn, I'll be wearing my rubber undies tonight. And not in a good way.

Plus I got a flashback to the Tomb of Rassilon in the Five Doctors when the heads on the side of the coffin started pleading for help.

No idea about where it's going, though I get the feeling Cal is both somebody's name and an acronym.
 
 
Triplets
19:31 / 31.05.08
They were all saved... in a Flesh ROM. Oh ho!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:43 / 31.05.08
You really thought it was scary? Odd, considering it was involving lots of opportunity for shadows and darkness, two things that creeps me out I thought this was the most non-scary episode ever.

Still, Professor River Song as the next companion? Yes please...
 
 
Triplets
19:48 / 31.05.08
With Tilda Swinton as Teh Doctor!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:57 / 31.05.08
That was ace. The tone was different - pale, frightening, old wooden fittings. And it could go so many ways, too! I wonder if it's possible to get people back from the flesh bank, and how, exactly, the lady who knew the Doctor did know him. And is Doctor Moon for real, and the little girl is a planet and has to 'try to remember', or is he just weird?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:17 / 31.05.08
That was ALL GOOD. It was Borges done as space opera, to which I can't really see a downside.

...where's this "trigger-happy Rose" shit coming from? Is there a trailer I have yet to see? Cuz well, I can see exactly where this is going, largely because the internet can't keep its fucking mouth shut (and one of my fellow dogwalkers doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the words "SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING WANKER") and I can't cover my virtual EARS, but...

I thought this was the "without spoilers" thread.


...or have I really missed something where all this shit that I now know has actually happened?

tl;dr- where's this gunhappy Rose? Since the surprise is no longer there, I may as well know where I missed seeing it.
 
 
Triplets
23:52 / 31.05.08
Stoat, are you getting any of that from this thread? Because I can't see it.
 
 
Triplets
23:55 / 31.05.08
My personal pet theory, after being told that Doctor Moon/Colin Salmon was in the running for being the first black James Bond, was that he might be one of the Doctor's future incarnations. He seems to know the library is real and in Teh Future, he's called Doctor, etc. Plus the fact that the subplot of the episode(s) seems to be River Song knows of one of his future selves, whether it's Tennant or not (not established that it is or isn't). Plus, Moffat wrote that timey-wimey Blink episode. So why couldn't a (black) Doctor be helping out his future self via Security Orb Girl..?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
00:07 / 01.06.08
God, this season just gets better and better. That was genuinely creepy and brilliant. I wonder if River Song is a future Companion, or if she's somehow related to the Doctor. I like the possibility that the girl may be a planet and Doctor Moon...well, who knows? Moffat does it again. I cannot wait until next week.
 
 
Triplets
00:12 / 01.06.08
I liked that when the girl collapses she does so onto a marble floorpiece which is exactly like the deco-detail on the railings of Planet Library. Nice touch, and a bit Lost-esque.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
00:13 / 01.06.08
So many questions....must somehow endeavor to speed up time so next week's episode can air....
 
 
Triplets
00:16 / 01.06.08
I feel the same.

Upon reading this thread: Girl planet... Moon..? All a bit obvious or am I more pissed than I realise?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:30 / 01.06.08
Stoat, are you getting any of that from this thread? Because I can't see it.

Top of this page!
 
 
Triplets
00:31 / 01.06.08
I apologise.

Isn't Llama being a bit of a berk, though (because I haven't seen any of this Guns N Rose (sorry) shit), and should be thoroughly ignored?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:38 / 01.06.08
I have no idea.

But I'd rather not have to make the effort to ignore someone in a NO FUCKING SPOILERS thread, thanks.
 
 
Triplets
00:53 / 01.06.08
You might have a valid point but I think, frankly, you should both wrestle over this.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:02 / 01.06.08
Pretty apt discussion considering the episode that just aired though, eh?

SPOILERS!
 
 
■
09:44 / 01.06.08
I think "Cal" was basically a gag about the fact that the girl was pushing random buttons on the remote. At the time Cal appears, she's just hit the "Time" button, possibly opening a calendar menu of some sort.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:02 / 01.06.08
Did anyone else notice the little girl had drawings of a blonde woman and a wolf up on the wall of her house?
 
 
Poke it with a stick
10:24 / 01.06.08
Stoatie - I think, in fairness, people are just taking what they've seen in the trailer for the second half of the season and are running with it - all we've seen so far is Rose walking about with a big gun and looking alternately pissed-off, pensive and overly made-up.

As far as I can see she hasn't fired a shot, so the trigger-happy bit is pure conjecture.

Cube - good call, I missed that one.

OurLady - I saw that too and pointed it out to my girlfriend, but then noticed that there were at least two more drawings on another wall, one of which was definitely a cat. From that, I can take it that she's either been drawing mummy and the pets or that Moffat referenced Survival along with Rose and Bad Wolf. Which would be odd, frankly.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:28 / 01.06.08
The usual question - does talking about trailers count as spoilers? Given that the mid-season trailer shows very big plot points for the second half of the series, probably yes. However, it's proven pretty much impossible to get people to keep it in their pants, and I doubt this will change this season.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:27 / 01.06.08
Ah, right. I didn't see that trailer so wasn't aware it existed. I think talking about trailers is usually okay.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
11:30 / 01.06.08
Oh no, I will have to watch that fantastic episode again to see those pictures of a blonde woman and a wolf that I missed?

How awful.
 
 
Triplets
12:05 / 01.06.08
Awful.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 45678(9)1011121314... 28

 
  
Add Your Reply