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Underground > Creation >

The Barbelith Temple Presents: Vol 1

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16:48 / 28.09.07

Just sent in my second draft and I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding it really useful to write this article. Trying to put everything as clearly as possible with whys and hows and whats.... its really quite a good thing to do. Writing for yourself is one thing, but I tend to shorthand when I do that, assuming I'll remember, this way the conscious thought processes get to catch up a bit with the subconscious/body-based understanding and I will be able to look back and see exactly what I think about it at this point in time!

Very looking forward to seeing everyone elses' stuff as well! How's it going?

11:19 / 02.10.07

Dear 'lithers,

I find myself overwhelmed with the demands of the work I'm being paid for, and unable to complete my article for this collaboration right now. My present circumstances could not have been foreseen when this project began, and they prevent me from contributing an essay as I would like to.

Apologies to you all. It sounds awesome and I am very much looking forward to seeing it - huge respect and love to all of you who are putting in so much work. I'm sorry for overestimating my ability to produce this piece of work, and for causing a delay by asking for a placeholder. I hope the rearrangement necessitated by my withdrawal is not too dreadfully inconvenient, and that I can be forgiven by you all for my failings.

12:03 / 02.10.07

no worries, apt!

I'm like the queen of behind in articleland so please be assured you didn't hold anything up.

RED, please PM me your email for the project.

12:19 / 02.10.07

I have had a long email with pointers for my article including lots of helps for improvement.....is this ok so late in the day?

If not then I will happily stand by my original article but I just wondered?

12:55 / 03.10.07

What kind of improvement?

From an outside perspective it sounds a bit overbearing. There isn't a single poster writing an article who writes badly or even ordinarily, everyone is skilled and talented. I wonder about the level of 'improvement' CAG should be suggesting, especially as you say, so late in the day and when other articles aren't even done.

Also, some people didn't take part in this project because they felt they couldn't meet the deadline, and it was made very clear that this was vital. Now it seems it's fine to miss the deadline if you are CAG for example. I just don't see how that works. If there is a deadline, it should apply to everyone.

13:02 / 03.10.07

The CAG didn't sent this email. Hence why I was asking if its ok on this thread for everyone's opinion.

13:05 / 03.10.07

Just to add I have finished and emailed my article in, the editors have looked at it and as far as I know its just awaiting the finished book to be done.

I realise my asking the above is cheeky but I would rather ask and be told 'no' than always wonder if I should have asked.

14:13 / 03.10.07

Now it seems it's fine to miss the deadline if you are CAG for example. I just don't see how that works. If there is a deadline, it should apply to everyone.

I think we have tried to reach out to the authors and give them as much time as possible. In fact currently AFAIK the only authors not submitting work resigned from the project due to other events in their lives? To be clear I'm not aware of CAG calling a firm deadline and excluding any of the authors based on it? I have been working with the authors and each one has sent their own expected ETA. So far no one I know of has been booted by CAG (I have been gone for a few days but...)

15:18 / 03.10.07

You have to have provisional deadlines with a project like this or else people won't get their copy in on time. You have to start out by setting a strict deadline for people to work to, and then revise that at certain later stages in accordance with the quality and quantity of copy that has been received.

So far, we have a lot of great articles, but CAG has made the editorial decision to give those authors who did manage to get good stuff in on time, the opportunity to receive feedback and constructive criticism and then go away and revise their articles to make sure their contribution is not just "good enough for publication" but "fucking excellent". I fully support anyone who has managed to meet the provisional deadline in taking some additional time to make improvements. An initial deadline for first draft copy is not and cannot be the same as a final deadline for final versions.

So far I think we have enough material being read, revised and reworked to be able to put out a decent volume of this anthology. But if someone emailed me tomorrow and told me they had a killer idea for an article and could get a first draft into me within a fortnight - I would say, yeah, send it in and if its a solid peice we'll publish it. The job of CAG is to ensure we put out the best possible collection of writing that we can pull together. If someone was put off contributing because they were intimidated by the initial copy deadline, that is hardly the fault of the editors who need to set deadlines and then revise them in accordance with the realities of what has been received. What is the most important: making sure we put out a really great book, or sticking to an arbitrary date that was only set to give people an impetus and a spur to actually write something and get it into us?

If anyone has a really great idea for an article, and they reckon they can get it into us in the next fortnight or so, whilst we are working with the other contributors on their submitted peices, then give it a go. Can't promise it will make the cut, as we don't want to take forever with this thing, and if it needs a lot of work, then it might not go in. But the worst that can happen is we have a head start on copy for volume 2. If you think you can turn something around relatively fast, take a shot at it.

17:37 / 03.10.07

What is the most important: making sure we put out a really great book, or sticking to an arbitrary date that was only set to give people an impetus and a spur to actually write something and get it into us?

Absolutely the most important thing is putting a brilliant book out, I do understand that and from what I've seen it sounds like it will be. I can see everyone's putting heaps of time into it. I suppose what surprised me was how the date suddenly seemed flexible; I must have misunderstood the whole timespan thing because the dates really did appear to be final, final firm things.

I'm just saying that people might not have offered articles because they thought 25th September was the final deadline (or whatever date was originally set as the deadline) but if they'd have known they could potentially negotiate longer they might have contributed.

But I get what you're saying.

00:57 / 04.10.07

If anyone has a really great idea for an article, and they reckon they can get it into us in the next fortnight or so, whilst we are working with the other contributors on their submitted peices, then give it a go.

I appreciate that I'm very late to this particular party... but I'd like to contribute. I'd be able to turn in finished copy certainly within three weeks but sooner if that's the deadline people are working towards (Gypsy mentioned a fortnight). I have a LOT of material that is in various draft forms that could be worked into something. I don't want to piss people off by being a johnny-come-lately to something that people have already invested in a great deal... if people are happy to have me then I can review what I've got and get it to you in time.

09:20 / 04.10.07

but if they'd have known they could potentially negotiate longer they might have contributed.

Problem is, if everybody knew they could potentially negotiate longer than the deadline of 25 September, £50 quid says we wouldn't have had a fraction of the articles submitted to us on time that we have managed to get from people. If we hadn't been firm about the deadline, this project would not have got off the ground like it has.

But now people have put in the effort to make that deadline and we've got enough copy to pull together a book, I think its the role and the responsibility of the editors to try and identify opportunities for building on what we've already got - by both working with authors who did get copy in on time to ensure their articles are as good as they can possibly be, and by not ruling out the possibility of last minute submissions beyond the deadline if someone convincingly reckons they can pull some quality material together within a couple of weeks.

Now we've got the bulk of a book together, I would much rather we take some extra time to work on that material and make it a really great quality offering, rather than rush something to the printers as soon as its vaguely publishable. I think that's what doing a good editorial job entails, and I'm trying to ensure that this project does justice to the talents of its contributors by making sure that as much effort goes into the editorial side as has gone into the writing.

I'd be able to turn in finished copy certainly within three weeks but sooner if that's the deadline people are working towards

I think this sounds acceptable, and that goes for anyone else who thinks they can pull something together within that sort of timeframe. Can you send us a short outline of what you have in mind? If contributors from whom we were expecting copy can drop the ball because of other commitments, which they can and will, leaving us several articles down, we have to at least be open to the idea of last minute contributions that might add something new and exciting to the book.

12:48 / 04.10.07

Sounds good to me. I'm more than happy to wait for additional contributions, such as Seth's. Does this two or three week extension make any difference to posters who have already pulled their contributions? apt plutology being an example from this page of the thread.

12:54 / 04.10.07

Yeah, it would be great if this extension afforded contributors such as Apt Plutology sufficient time to get something in to us after all. Any chance of that?

*

14:50 / 04.10.07

I'm pretty sure I can have a 2nd draft by Sunday night/Monday morning. Let me know if that works for you.

15:46 / 04.10.07

That works. As far as I am concerned if anyone can get good work to us very soon, we can publish it. The idea was to get *first drafts* in by the deadline, we are in the process of revision at the moment where everyone polishes their piece to perfection, then we assemble all the gems into a diamond crown of wonder.
A small note on feedback- the bulk of the advice has been to ground the work more in experience and make it as accessible as possible, which I think fits in with our agenda nicely and doesn't imply too much meddling. Despite giving out that advice to several people, I am now doing my second draft grounded more in experience as I forgot to apply it to myself, it applies across the board.

How's everybody feeling?

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

15:51 / 04.10.07

I'm good for more editing/layout work if there's more to be done. Enjoying what I've read so far; even as a non-practitioner it's interesting, coherent and compelling reading.

18:39 / 04.10.07

Likewise, likewise. Fun stuff.

And yes, deadlines are there for a reason. Without a first draft, speaking as someone other than a writer, one has absolutely nothing. With a first draft, there is something.

It's important to have something rather than nothing.

13:09 / 17.10.07

How is everyone doing?

14:26 / 17.10.07

I think we're still waiting on a handful of first drafts, but a lot of it has either already been passed through the pipeline to production, or is only a few minor edits away from that. CAG has been talking about a possible final deadline of 12 November for all content. If we haven't had your article by this date, then it's not going in this volume.

This will give those who have promised articles, but are struggling for one reason or another, a bit of time to produce the goods; and it will also give any cthulhu-come-latelys a chance to get a last minute submission together. This fits well with my own workload as well, as I won't really be able to do any editorial stuff during early November for various reasons.

We are thinking about aiming to get this thing finished, printed up and out of the door some time in early-to-mid December - just in time for the festive season, when Frater Perdurabo comes down the chimney to deliver the anthology to those who have been doing their Will throughout the year.

Does that all seem reasonable? Any last minute submissions on their way?

15:11 / 17.10.07

I have sent mine in. Has it been received? Do I need to wait for the editors to stop laughing and catch their breath before revisions are suggested?

15:30 / 17.10.07

I haven't seen it yet. Just sent an email to the CAG account asking for it to be forwarded on. Will get back to you with feedback asap.

15:42 / 17.10.07

Sounds perfect to me, but I'm on my last round of revisions and am an excited (and excitable) bunny!

12th of November is almost a month away, which, barring problems, should be plenty of time, no?

16:32 / 17.10.07

BTW, I think I'm open, if there's something waiting for Eyes.

07:49 / 18.10.07

There should be some stuff coming through to you soon, Grant. We're on the last round of revisions with about four more articles.

11:31 / 08.11.07

Not too long until the 12th.......

How's it going for everyone?

00:02 / 11.11.07

Done.

I'm going to sleep on it and do minor revisions and corrections in the morning when I'm fresh faced and bushy tailed.

It should arrive with people tomorrow at some point.

09:13 / 11.11.07

Hurrah! Anyone else who wants in please send your piece to CAG tomorrow at the latest.

10:29 / 11.11.07

I've just emailed my submission to barbelith.cag@gmail.com. Please let me know if you'd like it to go anywhere else.

*

22:44 / 12.11.07

It hazzz been sent.

15:49 / 13.11.07

Thanks everyone! Now for the mixing, placing in a greased dish and baking at 220c for forty minutes and presto! Book!

*

16:57 / 14.11.07

Oooh! Ooooh! And what happens then? How do people get a taste?

11:02 / 15.11.07

Yay! Temple pie!

I have been talking to people about this and they can't wait to see it too. Walking billboard.

23:18 / 15.11.07

When does it come out?

08:05 / 16.11.07

When does it come out?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's still a lot of work to be done on this project from where I'm sitting. We're not even close to a first draft manuscript of the whole book yet and there are still a couple of contributions that remain unedited.

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