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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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Feverfew
18:35 / 11.12.06
What I mainly like is that I only watch the Wednesday repeat, and I have zero willpower when it comes to reading threads like these, so I already know if the episode is worth watching, what to look out for etc. but still feel strangely compelled to watch it even if you all say it's really bad.

The again, I have seen Uwe Boll's Alone In The Dark, so anything, allegedly, some might say, is a step up from there.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:57 / 12.12.06
Does anyone know how it's actually doing ratings-wise?
 
 
penitentvandal
09:21 / 12.12.06
Surprisingly, no-one's yet mentioned the fact that one single line in this episode, when pondered, reveals a myriad (well, okay, two) reasons why this series sucks. That line in full?

'Colin Blackstaffe is a collector of alien ephemera and Nazi memorabilia.'

Right. Firstly, isn't the point of Torchwood to ensure that all the alien goodies end up in the hands of Torchwood and not anybody else? Yet apparently, despite the efforts of the 'super-secret' 'highly-trained' 'special ops' organisation dedicated to keeping the alien tech under wraps...there's a thriving collectors' market in it. A market so overt you can find it on eBay. Good job, Torchwood!

Second, there's the fact that this plot about the alien eye being sold on eBay demonstrates one of the key continuity weaknesses of this series: Torchwood have incredibly advanced technological capabilities, except when the plot dictates they shouldn't. In the very second episode, Tosh is able to hack into every security camera in Cardiff in the search for the alien sex gas. On the other hand, apparently using some kind of backdoor access to, say, ECHELON to scan the web for any mention of alien artefacts and flag these up - which would have meant Torchwood would have noticed the eye being auctioned long before Eugene walked into traffic - is beyond them. 'Special ops'? Yeah, they're 'special' alright.
 
 
■
10:30 / 12.12.06
Missed this one, so I'm skipping a couple of pages, so you'll have to forgive me if someone else has mentioned:

Season 2 gets green light

Which might be good news to some people, bad to others.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:05 / 12.12.06
Good news if the new series is "They Keep Killing Susie" (despite the continuity issues)

Very, very bad news if it's twelve episodes of Ghost Boy Sells Alien Eye (Love and Monsters II)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:14 / 12.12.06
Good news if the continual crapness has been due to BBC3 in any way.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
13:23 / 12.12.06
What, you mean leakage from improperly stored episodes of Honey We're Killing The Kids and The Real Hustle?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:51 / 12.12.06
It could happen. There is the Rift to consider, after all ...
 
 
distractile
19:34 / 12.12.06
From the news release:

Roly Keating said: "Inventive, intelligent and unpredictable, Torchwood is a brilliant piece of 21st century fantasy drama."

Three falsehoods in one sentence, eh? Maybe four given that Mr Keating is presumably using "unpredictable" in the complimentary sense of "full of twists and turns" rather than the arguably more apposite "illogical and incoherent".
 
 
some guy
22:42 / 12.12.06
Five, if you count "drama."
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
03:18 / 13.12.06
Can we have a moritorium in this thread on hilarious new ways for people to say they think Torchwood sucks without saying anything else about it, such as why?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:00 / 13.12.06
But Joe, it's one of my few remaining pleasures!

That, and the Schadenfreudian* delight of discovering that Torchwood slash has the unique distinction of being better written, wittier and more coherent than much of the original. See here:

Jack was sat in that underground thing in Wales and suddenly he saw that LJ had gone down.

"What the shit?" screamed Jack, unable to catch up with his flist or post scurrilous lies about what Toshiko wore under her clothes on Thursdays.

"Whatever shall I do now?" he wondered. "I know," he said to himself, "I shall shag Ianto."

So Jack went and looked for Ianto. He looked in the loo, he looked in the kitchen, he looked in the cupboard under the stairs.

"I was hiding," said Ianto, when Jack finally found him under a lampshade, "in case Owen killed me like the crazy bastard we all know he is."

"It's okay," said Jack, tears at the corners of his manly eyes. "I would never let crazy bastard Owen kill you. I would do it myself, with a loving hand."

Speaking of which, Jack demonstrated by shoving his hand down Ianto's trousers and having a quick fumble.

"Oh, how I love you," sighed Ianto.

"Whatever," said Jack, "let's get it on."


*Is this even a word?
 
 
sleazenation
11:27 / 13.12.06
Is such a thing as Torchwood slash actually possible, what with seemingly everyone being revealed as being more or less pansexual? I guess only in as much as slash is about repairing the text.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:07 / 13.12.06
Well, exactly. I think it may be the first self-slashing TV series. Very post- and meta-, but I imagine that takes a lot of the fun of the forbidden out of it for fanficcers.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:15 / 13.12.06
Joe, discussing the episodes and why they invariably suck is what we do at the weekend, mid-week all we've got time for is snide quipery.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:35 / 13.12.06
I, well, quite enjoyed that one (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered watching to the end- life is indeed too short). But it was the crappest so far by a long way. I was kind of expecting this after Love & Monsters- that went down well, so expect one in every season of Who and Torchwood from now on, whether they've got a decent reason to do it or not.

It would have made a great Children's Film Foundation thing. Not necessarily a good episode of Torchwood, though.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:40 / 13.12.06
TOSH
I think I fancy Owen.

JACK
Girls and boys having sex is boring and for children. Do something adult for blimey’s sake.


OWEN
Quick! There’s a monster made out of bras on the roof!
 
 
Triplets
17:22 / 13.12.06
LOL, Lady.

Permaclass.
 
 
sleazenation
20:01 / 13.12.06
Can we have a moritorium in this thread on hilarious new ways for people to say they think Torchwood sucks without saying anything else about it, such as why?

Isn't that question somewhat akin to asking why a joke isn't funny? Sometimes, at the most viceral level, the answer is simply 'it just isn't'.

Which is not to say we shouldn't think about the ways in which Torchwood isn't working for us, but more to acknowledge the limits of criticism. Personally, I think it kind of falls between a number of stools, not least of which is its desire to appeal to the BBC3 demographic and to retain some level of light-heartedness.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
13:44 / 14.12.06
Schadenfreudian*

*Is this even a word?


If it isn't, it should be. There are so many potential uses...

I think it may be the first self-slashing TV series.

I think Buffy was arguably pretty self-slashing (albeit without any m/m that i can recall). Torchwood is just derivative-but-a-bit-more-so IMO...

I missed the last 2 episodes of Torchwood, but as Love and Monsters was probably the worst episode i've ever seen of anything, it's probably a good thing that i missed the last one...

The Susie one sounds like it could have been good, tho...

Hello Jack, I found this in a spaceship. It has made my tits huge.

JACK
Watch out, it’s got monsters in it!

THEY FUCK UNTIL GWEN GLOWS

GWEN
WHAT IS HAPPENING MY TITS ARE HATCHING


Anyone remember Strange? That paranormal-detective thing on BBC2 about 3 or 4 years ago with Tom Baker, the guy with Down's and the guy from Coupling? That had pretty much exactly that plotline (with demons rather than aliens, but much the same), IIRC...

In fact, thinking about it, tho i only saw 2 or 3 episodes, Strange was pretty much basically the same idea as Torchwood (Angel meets The X Files but British, with lots of people involved who had also been involved with Doctor Who), but good...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:33 / 14.12.06
I think Buffy was arguably pretty self-slashing (albeit without any m/m that i can recall).

Spike/Angel, Spike/Xander, Spike/Andrew, for starters.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:43 / 14.12.06
But can self-slashing be defined as self-harm? Is this just a way for the writer to feel like ze is in control of the text?
 
 
some guy
16:17 / 14.12.06
Spike/Angel, Spike/Xander, Spike/Andrew, for starters.

That's regular slash rather than anything the show actually did. Except possibly Spike/Angel (IIRC there's an unambiguous line in one of the historical episodes).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:05 / 14.12.06
Angel and Spike canonically have had sex, referenced in "The Girl in Question". Andrew frequently expresses affection for Spike, referencing both his physical attributes and his personal qualities. Xander and Spike exchange a look when, in the second episode of series 7, if I recall correctly, a guest character asks whether any of the gang have not had sex with each other.

Your next move is probably to tell me that that these interactions are in no way slashy, and that that slash in no way exists within the text. However, I would ask you to do it in a new thread, perhaps called "Male-male undertones in Buffy - scientific fact, or crazy fiction?".

Meanwhile, did anyone see "Random Shoes"? I found a number of elements about it irritating, which is a shame because it had the potential to be quite a sweet episode. The incredible closeness to Love and Monsters seemed as if the writer had decided that, since that had tugged heartstrings but had been disrupted by a character turn from Peter Kay, the answer was to get rid of the character part, and indeed the character. Gwen being empathic good, as it is what she was hired for, but Gwen being utterly unprofessional (wandering off for a day? I know that it's not quite up there with using alien technology for date rape or killing people, but still...) and then inexplicably falling for ghost boy then giving him a snog. The fact that she had gotten into position for the snog by standing in the road like a huge lummox, not noticing oncoming traffic. The sense-of-wonder stuff at the end, along with the apparent physical reincarnation and then rapturing of the geek boy. The bit where Torchwood turned off Echelon that week. The bit where Gwen's regular-bloke boyfriend and Dexter-Fletcher lover both decide to give her a night off so the sensitive outsider Mary-Sue can snuggle up with her (a real lady! with breasts!). Danny pissing Boy.

You could have actually saved a lot, and tied it in, if he had instead of saving Gwen, or at worst shortly after saving Gwen, been dismantled by t3h evil thing in the darkness, and vanished screaming, or even if it had finished at a Danny Boyless funeral. However, like Ianto's promise that he'll watch Jack die, I fear this dark thing in the hereafter might turn out to be a one-off reference rather than part of a cohesive arc. I hope to be proven wrong, not least because I'm not at all sure where the big bad is coming from or where the arc is leading - and having no clue with 4 episodes left is either brilliant suspense-building or ropey plotting. Perhaps it will all be tied in... but I fear any attempts to do so here risk being more successful than the writers'. It's a shame, after three episodes of escalating quality - this felt like filler, written without any real engagement with the characters or their stories.
 
 
some guy
18:18 / 14.12.06
Angel and Spike canonically have had sex, referenced in "The Girl in Question".

Yes, that must be the episode I was thinking of above.

Your next move is probably to tell me that that these interactions are in no way slashy, and that that slash in no way exists within the text.

Nah. My next move is to wonder what the point of the term "self-slash" is if we're not going to distinguish between traditional slash and what the text actually says outright. The moments you cite are ripe for slash I agree but I'm not sure I'd call them "self-slash" in the sense that the viewer is still putting things in play rather than the text itself.

Perhaps we're defining self-slash differently?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:43 / 14.12.06
Two male characters saying in the text that they have had sex with each other strikes me as quite a lot like what the text says outright. You'll forgive me if I don't trust your memory of the series to be able to tell me exactly what was going on in the actual text elsewhere.

The case of Buffy is interesting, of course, because by the end it was very aware of a vast and active Internet community which, among other things, gave the characters homoerotic readings. It's an interesting discussion, but this is not the thread and I doubt that we are the people to have it.

So, if you feel like adding more content here, what did you think of "Random Shoes", the latest episode of "Torchwood"?
 
 
some guy
19:24 / 14.12.06
Two male characters saying in the text that they have had sex with each other strikes me as quite a lot like what the text says outright.

...which is why I said two posts ago Angel/Spike would be the exceptions if I recalled correctly (and you confirmed I did). If you're going to trot out the tired "Haus" routine please at least stick to what I've actually said. You can do so via PM if you wish so that the thread needn't be derailed. Or we can start a "slash vs self-slash" thread and consider the terms etc.

So, if you feel like adding more content here, what did you think of "Random Shoes", the latest episode of "Torchwood"?

I continue to be shocked as how poorly assembled the series is from a production point of view. It's almost as if the crew had never made television before. At this point I'm watching for the unintentional comedy (and so are several other posters, it seems). The latest episode hasn't changed these views.
 
 
slagar
19:36 / 14.12.06
I continue to be shocked as how poorly assembled the series is from a production point of view. It's almost as if the crew had never made television before. At this point I'm watching for the unintentional comedy (and so are several other posters, it seems). The latest episode hasn't changed these views.

like in the first minute of the show when the police officer lifted the crime scene tape so that ghost could pass by?

the show lost me there and at the point where i actually questioned why they even went to a hit and run, much like the episode where they went out to the coutry for the missing persons. by the looks of it, the hit and run was routine, certainly one that a "secret organizaton", which drives around with it's name on their vehicle, didn't need to be involved in.
 
 
Lama glama
19:45 / 14.12.06
like in the first minute of the show when the police officer lifted the crime scene tape so that ghost could pass by?

Or, y'know, so that the person leaving the crime scene could get by. It was just coincidence that Eugene was entering the crime scene at that time. Of course, it was obviously planned by the production team to coincide, saving the effects budget (of having Eugene ghost meld through the tape) and not revealing that Eugene is dead before the dramatic climax of the pre-theme sequence.

Slagar, you need to get into the spirit of Torchwood fanwanking!
 
 
sleazenation
20:38 / 14.12.06
Just idle curiosity - does Happy Eater still exist as a roadside restaurant business?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:19 / 14.12.06
Alas no, sleaze - they mainly became Little Chefs. Apparently a pac-man inducing vomiting was considered a less appetising motif than a tiny chef.

...which is why I said two posts ago Angel/Spike would be the exceptions if I
recalled correctly (and you confirmed I did).


So, Buffy does contain male-male canonical sexual contact. And we have that tired Haus outine in which you seek me out, gainsay me, often by saying something foolish or self-contradictory to get my attention, and then get ruder and ruder to try to keep my attention, rotting threads if necessary. Oh, that terrible, tired Haus routine in which you do these things.

Now, it seems you have limited interest in talking about Torchwood, except to say in the briefest terms possible that it's shit and old Doctor Who is GREBT and if you think otherwise you are stupid - a tendency that has proven irritating previously in such responses as this, this or this. If this is not the case, feel free to tell us what you thought of "Random Shoes", the latest episode of "Torchwood". Feel free also to start a thread on slash in Buffy and its relationship to sexual expression within the text. I'd be interested to know what other people thought about it.
 
 
some guy
23:17 / 14.12.06
So, Buffy does contain male-male canonical sexual contact.

Where did I say it didn't?

and old Doctor Who is GREBT

Where did I say this?

and if you think otherwise you are stupid

Where did I say this? All three of these things are you projecting.

And we have that tired Haus routine in which you seek me out, mindlessly gainsay me, often by saying something foolish or self-contradictory to get my attention, and then get ruder and ruder to try to keep my attention, rotting threads if necessary.

What on earth are you babbling about?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:36 / 15.12.06
So, no opinion about Torchwood? And no real interest in Buffy? Just want my attention? Again? From the unhelpful comments in the New Who discussion, responses to which linked above, I thought at least you'd manage something beyond this content-free little sniffle. But apparently not, which makes me think that your only interest in this thread is that, since I moderate F, TV & T, I feel I have to look at posts which would be safely ignored elsewhere, and therefore that you can have a better chance of catching my eye.

So, assuming that my suspicions are foolish and unfounded, what did you think about "Random Shoes", the most recent episode of the BBC series "Torchwood", whosy? Otherwise, could you take your issues to the Conversation?
 
 
some guy
05:10 / 15.12.06
You're a very strange person.

And really, no need to apologize for your bizarre behavior in the last few posts. You operate "in character," I get it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:26 / 15.12.06
So, what did you think about "Random Shoes", the most recent episode of the BBC series "Torchwood", whosy?
 
  

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