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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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Evil Scientist
11:20 / 20.12.06
Hell why does Captain Jack wear his WW2 costume? Whilst he was jaunting with The Doctor he was all about the white t-shirt and leather trouser "John Crichton" combo which looked far cooler. The WW2 airman look is good, but not every week.

He _must_ have been struck off, surely?

He probably sighed a big sigh of relief when the Daleks trashed Torchwood London, it meant he didn't have to go to the harrassment disciplinary.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:00 / 20.12.06
I quite like the idea that Owen has totally falsified his CV and his Doctorate is actual a PhD in Pornography or something.

Which would explain why he is apparently unaware of the Hippocratic oath or the doctor-patient "no telling no touching" thing. It would also provide good reasons for
a) why he is so attached to his "badge of office" white coat
b) why he constantly fucks up corpse analysis (as with the soldier's skeleton in Evil Sex Alien Sleeps With Tosh)
c) why he's always introducing himself as "Doctor"
d) and why he gave the autopsy to Gwen - bcause he hadn't a clue how to do it.

Right, I want that to be true now. Come on Father Christmas and RTD, make it so.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
10:23 / 23.12.06
An anagram of Torchwood is "Hotrod Cow".

I expect to see it hitting our screens as the second official spin-off, hopefully starring Micky and his (boy)friend as young cattle farmers who spent their free time fighting crime and pimping their "rides". As it were.
 
 
Billuccho!
03:16 / 24.12.06
So I'm all caught up again. This group of episodes was *far* better.

Greeks Bearing Gifts? Some of it was grating, but I liked it, and I dig Tosh as a character. Shame she rarely gets anything to do.

They Keep Killing Suzie? That was a pretty damn good ep, even if some of the plot shenanigans seemed a bit off. Still-- I really like the character of Suzie. They need to bring her back at least once a season to completely decimate the Torchwood team. Because really, these guys are the most ineffective heroes I've ever seen. What with getting everyone killed, letting kids go off with evil faeries, and getting locked in their own base.

I liked Random Shoes a lot, so the hate here surprises me. But then, I loved Love & Monsters-- these kind of episodes remind me of Buffy eps like The Zeppo or Storyteller, two of my all-time faves. I thought Eugene was a fine character, and even though the episode dragged in parts, I liked the story.

No, I don't think Eugene ascends to heaven, either. "And then, all of a sudden, it's--" And then fade to black. There's nothing there. Much like They Keep Killing Etc, the moral of Random Shoes was that life is everything you're going to get, so you'd best make the most of it. In a way, that's what Out of Time was about, too.

And Out of Time is the best episode yet. The actress playing Diane the pilot (who, IMDB tells me, is a good buddy of David Tennant-- heh) had the look and feel of old classical 40's and 50's type actress, and really sold the part, even if Owen is ridiculously skeevy and no woman would ever fall for him (for God's sake, every female character just falls for him. What the hell is that?) Kinda lame we'll probably never know what happened to the character. Because really, she'd just go up, find nothing, and land again. And go "Ah, shit."

But, yes. Best episode yet. Overloaded with sentiment, sure, but I am a sucker. I thought they could do more with Jack and whatshisface (because they really should be doing more with Jack in general, Barrowman's first in the credits, dammit), but it was a good episode. I quite liked Ianto in this one, even if he was just the dry witty butler. The way he hands Jack's coat to him as Jack runs off-- great nonchalant little action.

It's good to see the show is becoming about something. Even if the continuity doesn't always mesh, the show is improving constantly, each episode better than the last. At this rate, the finale to the tenth season will be the best episode of television ever. At least, we can dream.

I like Rhys. Apart from the dudity. Because he's a schmuck. Too bad he's probably doomed. It'd be great to have an episode centered on him, weird stuff going on in the corner of his eye, and then have him thrown completely into the frightening world of Torchwood. And have him react like a regular person. Not like the maniacs in the Torchwood asylum.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
17:42 / 24.12.06
Well, i missed the last 2 or 3(?) episodes because i couldn't be bothered, but saw the last one last night and was actually pleasantly surprised by it (tho possibly mainly because i'd stopped expecting it to be good)...

Yes, they really should have had the pilot woman either joining Torchwood or finding the Doctor. That would have made future episodes of at least one out of Torchwood and Tennant Who definitely watchable...

The thing i sort of liked was the whole obvious uncertainty and hypocrisy of Gwen's conversation about sex/men with Emma/Edith - it seemed to do a good job of showing the mixed-upness of "our" (as in, generally 2006's, rather than Torchwood's or Barbelith's) own attitudes to sex, with the uncomfortable combination of supposed sexual liberation and continued assumption that Sex Is A Thing That Men Do To Women (also Gwen's possibly-somewhat-OTT and definitely authoritarian "hands off" thing makes a bit more sense when you remember she's a cop)...

Sort of odd that there wasn't any explicit reference to the fact that the situation could easily have been resolved if they found the Doctor, tho...
 
 
Ganesh
20:16 / 24.12.06
I'm feeling Gwen's pain here. I too get a bit tearful when I've drugged my boyfriend and he's failed to tell me he forgives me for my abruptly-disclosed shagging around in the second or two before he loses consciousness. Mind you, I usually find that subsequently abandoning him to take pizza in to my work colleagues helps.
 
 
Ganesh
20:20 / 24.12.06
In terms of characterisation, this episode is an absolute stinker. Stick to acting, Mickey, love.
 
 
illmatic
20:25 / 24.12.06
Oh come now, Ganesh, they made Owen a jellied eels salesman. That has to be one of the few things in the series that make sense so far. I like the idea that he's really a pickled seafoods merchant who's fallen through a gap from an alternative universe where Cockneys rule the planet. Why not? It's far more belivable than what we've just seen.
 
 
illmatic
20:26 / 24.12.06
"It's like staring into the darkest recesses of your own soul". Watching Torchwood does feel a bit like that, yes.
 
 
Lama glama
20:39 / 24.12.06
That was utterly painful. Noel Clarke seems to have had the "Big Book of Clichés" open while penning this particular episode.

It's like staring into the darkest recesses of your own soul.

Don't let life get away from you.

If you walk away right now, never come back.

I know they're not exact quotes, but you get the idea. There were some bizarre moments throughout, culminating in Owen's final growl at the Weevil. I didn't know whether Tyler Durden and Owen were about to headbutt each other or strip off and engage in the man-secks at any given moment. Every other line from Jack was cliché ridden pap and he had an extra load of facial gurning this week, along with Owen.

Having said all that, I did enjoy parts of the episode. It moved at a fairly enjoyable pace, most of the characters were used for a change and the direction was quite pretty in parts. The musical cue for the Weevils is a nice one, reminiscent of the Impossible Planet's score.

Next week looks promising and it was written by the person who wrote Out of Time, so it should be semi-respectable.
 
 
illmatic
20:43 / 24.12.06
When Fight Club was written and when the film was made there was at least the vauge idea that the excesses depicted could be seen as some kind of social commentary or, more accurately, satire. To regurgiate it in such a crass, ciched, unintentionally hilarous way - what were the writers thinking? Surely they can't have been taking it in any way seriously?
 
 
Ganesh
20:54 / 24.12.06
There were some bizarre moments throughout, culminating in Owen's final growl at the Weevil.

I suspect we were supposed to marvel at the beast within or wonder whether Owen, having posed enigmatically in a cage with a weevil, would take to fighting Torchwood's imprisoned aliens (as opposed to trying to put his dingle in them). This might have had a little more dramatic/emotional impact if we weren't used to Owen's routine boundary-trampling.

Gwen's characterisation took more of a mauling than Estate Agent Durden's oiled pectorals, with the "forgive me" date-rapery. And Tosh, for all her concern over weevil mistreatment, was apparently quite happy to provide one of those oh-so-successful amnesia pills for Rhys. Nice.
 
 
■
22:52 / 24.12.06
Next week looks promising and it was written by the person who wrote Out of Time, so it should be semi-respectable.

Don't forget, it's a double-bill folks on Monday. End of season and Sarah-Jane to ease you into it in the afternoon.
 
 
Billuccho!
00:40 / 25.12.06
Sort of odd that there wasn't any explicit reference to the fact that the situation could easily have been resolved if they found the Doctor, tho...

Well, they did explain that, sort of. Considering the history books all considered the three of them "dead," never to return, the Doctor could do nothing about it without changing history and mucking up the timeline. "Caught up in events," that sort of thing. It makes sense this time.
 
 
Billuccho!
02:07 / 25.12.06
Alright, so Combat broke the "every episode improves upon the last" bit I was preaching above. Oops. I mean, I like Noel Clarke-- but this one was weaker than the last few. Some good moments, though, but some bizarre, over-the-top bits, like Gwen drugging Rhys or Owen snarling at the Weevils.

At least the cast was managed well this time around. Everybody got to do something. I think the writers are in love with Owen, though, for reasons beyond all of the viewers. He gets more screentime than anyone who isn't Gwen, which is odd because every viewer seems to hate him. Jack is the reason I started watching the show-- and he gets nothing to do.

Could've gotten to the actual Fight Club bit quicker, I think. The build-up was okay in parts and then stretching in others. The Morrissey reject had a lot of patience for a guy who was obviously an enemy.

Next episode looks great. Pray it's so.
 
 
Lama glama
22:54 / 25.12.06
In the trailer for the finalé there appears to be a giant goat trampling the streets of Cardiff, along with mention of every disease evar!! (copyright, New Earth) infecting the Earth's population. The goat does look cool though..
 
 
slagar
16:24 / 27.12.06
i really want the unedited show. the scene where Gewn talks Tosh into giving here the pills i'm sure is pure genius.

"But Tosh I need them so i can confess my affiar to Rhyss."

"But Gwen, if he comes back as a psychotic killer it's on your head."

anyone what to hazzard a gues as to why the amnesia pill worked so effectively on Rhys? it seemed, when given to Gwen in the first episode she had time to run home and write a novel.

also, i heard that in one of the podcasts, much to my relief, Torchwood was concieved to be a one series show. has anyone else heard that or listen to the podcasts?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:48 / 27.12.06
In terms of characterisation, this episode is an absolute stinker. Stick to acting, Mickey, love.

Paradoxically, as far as these things usually go, it seems as if Mickey/Noel will continue to get work as a writer/director until his looks pack up.

Watching this terrible episode, I was struck by the image of Mark Gattis and Russell T Davis sitting about in Gattis' famed North London laboratory/flat, planning Noel/Mickey's short term future.
 
 
Feverfew
17:39 / 27.12.06
Oh, but I'll watch the repeat tonight, even if I'm convinced this has now become the Owen Fucks and Rucks show.

(Sorry. I've had that in my head for twenty minutes.)

I'm really prepared to give it a proper go on the Series Finale, just in case it all gels, and becomes really good.(But maybe that's just me.) So far, there have been, what, two or three worthwhile episodes and a few extras with occasional novelty value?

Does anyone else get the feeling they should have been given a condensed run of six episodes so they had to think much more carefully about what they did rather than, well, in my humblest opinion, viciously padding?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:45 / 27.12.06
Look, okay, lots of things wrong with this show -

But in terms of Owen characterisation?

Best. Episode. Ever.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:20 / 27.12.06
Also, he didn't even get to have sex with anyone, although I was wondering about Mark. This massively improves my opinion of the episode. Gwen did seem to be a bit pointless with the Retcon - why would Rhys forgive her, when he was that cross about her running off in the middle of dinner (perfectly reasonably - you can't tell her not to let it slip _and_ get her to abandon her home life when it's convenient, Cap'n). The jellied eels bit merely convinces me that Toshiko is trying to get Owen killed, and who, really, would blame her?

Otherwise, although derivative and at times poorly plotted, this one rattled by at a decent clip, didn't drag - not an actively good episode, certainly, but not nearly as bad as some, surely?
 
 
Ganesh
01:05 / 28.12.06
Oh, he probably put his winkie in Torchwood's weevil at the end, now he and it share a deep manly understanding. A sort of Mark Millar lovehatefightbumsex thing.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
05:26 / 28.12.06
I do find it a bit weird that people seem to think this episode was a love letter to Owen: surely the point of the retread of Fight Club wasn't social commentary, but Owen commentary - he's a sad little GQ man who already gets off on fighting people in bars, and he actually buys into their little game very easily, to the point where he's pissed off with Jack et al for busting in too soon, and not just 'cos it meant he got PWNed by the Weevil. And that scene at the end isn't about how macho and great Owen is - but it does have a point: it refers back to the guy who's running the Weevil Club's theory that the Weevils are a distorted version of humanity from the future - "I think they're us." Well, in Owen's case, he doesn't have very far to go. He's already largely Weevil.
 
 
Ganesh
07:10 / 28.12.06
Well yes, a slightly laboured "beast within". I just think Owen, being Owen, would try to put a little piece of himself within the beast.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:53 / 28.12.06
You're assuming that the weevil is male - in fact, that both weevils are male, because aren't there now two Weevils in the Torchwood basement, revealed through selective cutting becasue they can only afford one weevil head? That RTD bit in the first episode apart (and some very odd signals with Mark), there's no evidence that Owen isn't an ironed-on hetero.

However. I think it's certainly always tempting to see producers of a show that you basically don't like as doing something in the worst possible way - and my immediate response was indeed "Oh, for fuck's sake, Owen's got some deeper insight into violencethat allows him to understand t3h weevil". And the problem is, of course, that the characterisation on Torchwood is so patchy that it might be decided that that's what happened, or indeed that none of this, really, has happened. BUT Flyboy seems to be making sense, and I'm liking the way that some of the arcs that just seemed nonsensical earlier in the series are to some extent coalescing - just as expected them to forget totally about the something in the dark, which at least is getting referenced.

So, Owen's character arc. He starts off as a thoroughly unlikeable rohypnol monkey, but a fairly happy-go-lucky one. Then his lover, Suzie (the very thought gives me chills. She. Is. Too. Great) is revealed as a murderer and kills herself. New girl arrives, and pretty soon he is attempting to predate on her sexually.

However, in the gap between one and t'other (the sexy predation thing seems to start around "Cyberwoman" - which makes me think that possibly each writer was given a "move the arc of the characters along to" sheet and given freedom to work out how, thus at times making a hash of it), he is confronted by the memory of a self-assured, oily bloke who pushes Owenness that bit further, into rape and murder. Since he doesn't have much in the way of interiority, he processes this by deciding to find and confront Blake, rather than by confronting or addressing what it might actually say about him. Blake dies. I think this is one of several points where Owen thinks he has achieved redemption/purification and totally fucking hasn't. The next one of those is his queasily aggressive courting of Gwen, which, one assumes, works only because his use of Owhypnol has left a sort of musk around him (this is also my explanation for Suzie, incidentally - he was totally drugging her). Nevertheless, he is forming a kind of unit with Gwen, although one defined by exclusion (his thoughts in Greeks Bearing Gifts)... and then his dead ex-lover comes back to life and hammers home his sheer cluelessness - because he lacks the ability to self-examine, he totally failed to notice anyhing off about Suzie, despite being in some form of relationship with her.

So, rather scalded by this, he throws himself into trying to develop another dimension - by throwing himself, inevitably, at another woman, and then rather unusually (as he observes himself) falling in love with her. There's a "Persuaders" guest-star "You see, I loved her" stupidity about this, admittedly, but I think that Owen's emotionally arrested cretinousness helps out - he doesn't really know how to have an emotionally honest relationship, having apparently learned everything he knows about ladies by alternative viewings of Press Gang and hardcore porn, so he doesn't really know how to go about falling in love, and just does it at a mad rush of saying "I am IN LOVE" a lot. Diane recognises this as unhelpful, and responds to his desperate "Don't leave me - we can get married!" appeals by pissing off. His adolescent tilt at emotional validity is not enough to keep her in the present day.

So, when Gwen raises the emotional ante, he responds by shutting her out. Likewise, when the girl at the bar starts chatting him up, he doesn't try to chat her up. A relationship with emotional commitment has done nothing for him but to make sexual relationships without emotional commitments seem as repulsive to him as (when he is involved) they are to the viewer. His attempt to become a more human human being has failed, and he doesn't have a path to retreat along.

So, his tale is another one of traditional Torchwood incompetence here - accidentally falling in with the baddies rather than attempting to stop what they are doing - like Toshiko, somebody is playing on his weaknesses - in this case, his new-found realisation that his entire schtick - sarky date rapist - has been revealed as unsatisfactory, and his attempt to move his own character arc has led to rejection of both the attempt and his previous persona as a big piece of shit. So, unlike Toshiko, he has a very clear path - Mark is the bad guy, he should hold him at gunpoint and then call in backup. There's no moral or ethical ambiguity - he is not being tricked, he's not having an affair with Mark - but what Mark is saying - that his character construction so far is worthless (for successful estate agent read "happy-go-lucky shagmonster) - is sufficiently convincing for him to put down his gun and to go with him. Arguably this is deep cover, but it's also futility. So, is he expecting the weevil to kill him or does he genuinely want to fight the weevil and in doing so substitute rage and the company of men for love and the conpany of women? Possibly the latter, since at the end of the episode, as Joe D-I-Y says above, he's shown as basically being a weevil - a creature who doesn't really have anything but frustrated rage.

Obviously, there are a couple of problems here, mainly that the arc has to go somewhere - either redemption or destruction, really - and neither is necessarily likely. We've already had one Torchwood member turn out evil, although admittedly recycling plot elements hasn't exactly been the end of the world before now.

However, yes - I think that is there is an interesting thing about Owen, it is that he is being portrayed as simultaneously formally admirable - great flat, one-liners, lots of sexy sex, gets to shag the notional POV character - but is also, if you stop for a breath, basicall not just a wanker, but a wanker who is unpleasant and who does unpleasant things. Dipping into the EU, incidentally, it does turn out that he was facing disciplinary proceedings - here. Maybe struck off, maybe recruited by Torchwood and the issue disappeared.

(Incidentally, I think we may assume that Owen was orginally written to be played by an actor who was a) much more conventionally good-looking and b) Welsh - hence the name. I think some of the incredulity might be as a result of Burn Gorman being.. umm... not conventionally attractive?)
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:24 / 28.12.06
Wow, the Torchwood site isn't exactly trying to hide the fact that Combat is just Fight Club spelt sideways is it? Is the next Noel written episode going to involve alien lifeforms that gestate inside a living human host and have concentrated acid for blood?

I'm wondering if the Weevils are linked somehow to the Thing in the Darkness, what with Estate Agent Durden's comments on it's impending arrival? I sort of thought Owen might have been possessed in some way at the end there (hell, he's an empty shell with a thin sketch of personality so must be a good candidate for possession).

Not terrible as Torchwood goes, especially if one considers the points raised in Haus's post above.

One massive irritant though, even assuming that Retcon is standard issue for Torchwood operatives, surely it's use has to be monitored in some way (especially considering the way Suzie abused it to build her own serial killer)? This really just continues to enforce my own personal theory that the Cardiff branch is staffed by the no-hopers and unreliable members of Torchwood and that, with central command gone, they're running off the leash.

Btw, anyone else have a Blakes 7 moment when the estate agent talked about weevils being what Humanity is going to turn into?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:22 / 28.12.06
The other thing was that Torchwood 3 was a research station - that's why everyone there has or had some sort of scientific qualification, apart from Jack (management) - the only people who are not scientifically qualified have arrived after the fall of Torchwood One - Ianto (admin) and Gwen (uncertain - investigative/normal-person liaison, really), presumably to fill skills gaps that were previously handled at Torchwood One. So, yes, without Torchwood one their remit has expanded vastly, and probably that has led to not being resourced enough to police things like Retcon, relying rather foolishly on anyone having any moral sense...
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
20:09 / 28.12.06
I was thinking and semi-hoping that the "amnesia pill" would actually kill Rhys, either as a Tragic Mistake so that Gwen would get fucked up/lose her "humanity" and "normal-world" life and become a complete Torchwood operative with nothing to lose (sort of like the new James Bond, actually)/join the Torchwood Dead Lovers Club, or because Owen, Jack or both wanted Rhys dead...

(actually, maybe that *could* have happened - do we see Rhys again after he lapses into unconsciousness?)

Yes the Owen/Estate Agent/Weevils thing was a bit of a stupid hash, with no real coherent idea of what it all signified. Still a reasonable idea, tho, if badly executed...

(anyone else want to shout after any of the concern-for-Weevil-welfare stuff "then why the fuck have you got one locked up on its own in a tiny cage then?" Either they're vermin, or they deserve rights and equal treatment, not both... another example of Torchwood's lack of internal ethical consistency?)

Have i already mentioned that Tosh is incredibly attractive?
 
 
Ganesh
21:29 / 28.12.06
Haus, I think it's the bungled Gwen/Tosh/amnesia pill thing that gives me little confidence in Mickeylove's writing. He may well have intended layers of characterisation beyond abyss-staring t3h weevil = meee but, at this point, I don't trust him to do anything particularly subtle. But yes, reading more into it is well and good and can only enrich (what seemed like) a meagre episode.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:51 / 29.12.06
I'm just catching up with last Sunday's episode now. At the start did Jack really just make Gwen choose between going running off after Weevils with him and her boyfriend, on their night off, then criticise her for not having a private life?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:18 / 29.12.06
slagar anyone what to hazzard a gues as to why the amnesia pill worked so effectively on Rhys? it seemed, when given to Gwen in the first episode she had time to run home and write a novel.

She mixed in a bit of retcon with a sedative she said. Presumably working out that that was the best way to ensure that the thing worked.

I quite liked that scene, it was certainly a pleasant change from the anticipated Owen/Rhys dustup that I thought we'd seen in the 'next week' last week. That she's happily misusing the resources of Torchwood (again!) to try and get herself the forgiveness of her boyfriend without the awkwardness of him actually remembering any of it was an interesting choice.

And I actually liked the episode. TachyonTV (I think) describes TW as 'juvenile' as opposed to 'adult', hence the stories in which girl-girl snogging plays an integral part and the refusal to actually have plots that make sense. I wouldn't have minded the obvious lift of 'Fight Club' (most of TW has been about barely disguised lifts from other sources after all) if there had been some, just some attempt to acknowledge that the Tyler Durden/Mark Lynch philosophy is complete shit, philosophically unsound and can be argued against with little effort. Unfortunately that would involve Owen not getting to unleash the beast within, after the hospital you'd think Jack would pencil him in for some Primal Scream therapy, or perhaps he'll just give him Ianto's stopwatch and a quick shag. It worked with him...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:59 / 30.12.06
What on earth are you talking about? Do you really think the point of 'Combat' was that Weevil Fight Club was philosophically sound?
 
 
Triplets
14:32 / 30.12.06
And I actually liked the episode.

I think someone should call "downstairs" and ask what the temperature is.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:33 / 30.12.06
Am I the only person who was impressed at the estate agent being called Lynch/Frost?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:54 / 30.12.06
You Know My Callsign What on earth are you talking about? Do you really think the point of 'Combat' was that Weevil Fight Club was philosophically sound?

I rather think Mickey would like us to think that, yes.

Triple Orgasm And I actually liked the episode.

I think someone should call "downstairs" and ask what the temperature is.


You bitch!
 
  

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