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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
11:03 / 31.12.06
I rather think Mickey would like us to think that, yes.

On what basis? And remember, it should be something that actually happens in the episode.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:29 / 31.12.06
Damn, and there was me crafting an excellent post based on old episodes of Dangermouse and a dream I once had. I don't think I want to argue with you as you seem to be in a mood at the moment, I don't think (as should be obvious from what I said) that 'Weevil Fight Club' is morally sound and my point was that the story followed a rather predictable course. Maybe it's me but such empty-headed and empty-hearted nihilism bores me, so at least we had Gwen using drugs on her boyfriend to liven things up in the middle there.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:01 / 31.12.06
Although for any sedative to act that fast it would have to be chloroform, and administered via the old hanky over the mouth. Surely something Gwen had in the bathroom cabinet couldn't possibly have had such a swift knock-out effect?

Although I guess she could have stolen some magic superfast sedative that was just lying around on Jack's desk ...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:13 / 31.12.06
I'm not "in a mood", and it's a very simple question. What was it about the episode that left you with the impression that the writer's intention was that the audience should think the Weevil fighters were "philosophically sound"?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:02 / 31.12.06
Am I the only person who was impressed at the estate agent being called Lynch/Frost?

Also, Mark was Mark Lynch - which means his partner, logically, is David Frost.

I think it might be fair to say that Noel Clarke didn't signpost whether we were supposed to find the fight club ethos seductive - just as it seems uncertain whether Owen should be considered seductive. If you're a woman in Cardiff, yes. Otherwise, probably not. On the other hand, I have not felt moved to join a fight club, and the people at the fight club did seem to be pathetic, broken people. Mark had a weevil chained up - for all his bravado, he was training on something that couldn't fight back - that's just brutality, not the nobility of combat.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:32 / 01.01.07
ooh, 'Vote Saxon' posters. Is this Norsefire winning the General Election?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:40 / 01.01.07
Someone sedate Owen before he does something stupid. Forget that, just sedate Owen on general principle.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:01 / 01.01.07
Oh dear.

Still, good stuff so far.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:04 / 01.01.07
Have we been shown the mysterious rift-opening technology before? This is a genuine enquiry. They haven't just dumped a big new machine on us with no warning at all have they?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:12 / 01.01.07
42 minutes in, and Ianto does what we all wanted to do from the first episode.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:15 / 01.01.07
Episode 12 is shaping up to be what episode 3 or 4 should have been. Not perfect, not at all, but so much better than what we had. This was the show I was promised.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:15 / 01.01.07
Jacktion!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:38 / 01.01.07
Episode 13: Wow, the ENTIRE cast have taken the crazy pills!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:58 / 01.01.07
Deus ex Jackina.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
21:04 / 01.01.07
That was really, really painful.
 
 
Twice
21:14 / 01.01.07
That hand in the bubbles...it was the right hand, right?
 
 
Evil Scientist
21:15 / 01.01.07
Suddenly the writers remember all of the plots they've got hanging, and chuck a big old demon in for extra chuckles, plus a cheese-heavy ending with mild fanservice.

Sarah Jane endangers children and abandons her dog in a black hole and still manages to appear better prepared than the knuckleheads of Torchwood.

Captain Jack Harkness was a good story though, a sweet little love story (even if it was a bit obvious). Glad to see use of message drops to communicate with the future (one presumes Torchwood personnel are trained to look for unobvious cans of paint, but then one would be doing the writers job for them).
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
21:36 / 01.01.07
The odd thing, and I say this in all sincerity, was that in watching the last two episodes it felt oddly like watching a puppet show and seeing the pupeteer at work, or having a magician show you a trick when he doesn't realise you know how it's done. In Wil Wheaton's reviews of old Star Trek: TNG episodes he talks about scripts that are so bad the audience are way ahead of the story and waiting for the cast to catch up, it felt the same with Torchwood. It's obvious from the start that something in the rift is giving the team visions of people they've lost, promising them it'll all be all right if they open the Rift, you know Gwen can't protect her boyfriend (although I thought locking him the vault with Weevils was pretty dumb) and you know Jack's invincibility will somehow be involved in solving whatever problem is out there.

But because I know the visions come from the creature in the Rift the team falling for them makes me angry, because the earlier episodes completely failed to make me believe that I should give a damn for the emotional distress of any of the characters (and Gareth David-Lloyd just cannot act angry or upset). And Jack's amazing pig-headed refusal to explain anything to the team, to get angry with their perfectly reasonable request for reasons why they should believe or do anything he says, maybe if they'd been a hyper-efficient by-the-book team up to now this would have had some dramatic weight, as it is, it's just the team falling apart, again. And just when you think it can't get any worse, Princess Gwen kisses Sleeping Beauty and brings him back from the dead... And you see the strings being pulled and realise that the creators don't realise you can see behind the curtain and can see how they are trying to manipulate you.

Now I'm off to look for a Torrent of the Sarah-Jane Adventures, because it looks like I missed the other good Doctor Who thing this Christmas.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:43 / 01.01.07
Christ, that was uneven.

Surely we should be able to expect, if the writers go to trouble of giving a guest character an unusual and impressive name, that it's at some point going to pay off in terms of, God I don't know, turning out to be an anagram of "H.G. Wells" or "The Wandering Jew" or "I am an apostle of Lucifer Waaarghxhf". Something along those lines. Did that never happen, or was I asleep?

Plus, was he meant to be some guy from the 1940s who made his fortune selling antique clocks by transporting them through time (which would seem to eliminate the "antique" aspect - what he'd actually be selling, then, would be a lot of flawlessly accurate replicas), as opposed to the traditional method of putting a fiver in a Post Office account and collecting loads of interest later on - until one day he can't take it any more and decides to bring about Armageddon by a bloody and roundabout means? If so, Torchwood's very first attempt at a level boss needed work.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
22:03 / 01.01.07
Yes, that seemed very... rushed. Where the fuck did the Giant Horned CGI Beast come from? Did it have any backstory whatsoever?

I was expecting the Bilis guy to be an alien or something, or maybe, just maybe a renegade Time Lord - but he basically had no backstory either (tho i suppose he could become a recurring villain if there's a next series, but i doubt it).

Oh well, at least Gwen did join the Torchwood Dead Lovers Club, and i thought the obvious identification between all of them inspiring the mutiny was a nice touch. Gwen's kiss bringing Jack back was shit, tho.

And Doctor Who did a far better-looking Giant Horned Satanic Beast just last season. This one was the shittest piece of sub-computer-game CGI (wasn't there actually a computer game with giant beasts much like that in it that had a massive viral advertising campaign fairly recently?) i've ever seen... a Godzilla-style man in a rubber suit would have been far better...

Character stuff in general was OK tho, i thought. Tosh particularly (or that could just be because of my crush on her).

The cut from the wartime girl's incredulous "George is dancing with a Jap?" line to the "Vote Saxon" posters did make me think racist/fascist party as well. Nazi occultists a la Hellboy as next season's villains, perhaps?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:06 / 01.01.07
Bilis says that this monster is "the son of the Beast" - i.e. there's a reason why he looks like the monster from 'The Satan Pit': familial resemblance.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:06 / 01.01.07
Heh. "Next season".
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:13 / 01.01.07
Um, has this not already been linked to in this thread?
 
 
some guy
00:29 / 02.01.07
It has, but I think people can be forgiven for believing that the current season doesn't merit a return engagement.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:41 / 02.01.07
So, do we think this Beast Junior was the thing in the dark that Suzy mentioned? That supposedly knew Jack's name?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:12 / 02.01.07
Yes. Although I don't think anyone ever said it knew Jack's name, did they? Our girl Costello said that it was "coming for you, Jack", but while that could be taken as a reading of intent, it could also be taken as just a premonition of what was going to happen, much like Jack's feeling that he must have been brought back to life and made apparently immortal for a purpose.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:33 / 02.01.07
It would help to explain why death for Suzy was different to death for Eugene, she died and her soul was sucked into the rift, Eugene was miles away so he gets to go to heaven where all the special children live.

I did like 'Captain Jack' though, Barrowman nailed it for me.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:45 / 02.01.07
So, do we think this Beast Junior was the thing in the dark that Suzy mentioned? That supposedly knew Jack's name?

I'm afraid so. I thought it was a bit lame after what, for Torchwood, counted as a lot of build-up - but I fear Buffy and Angel may have spoiled me for both apocalypses and season finales.

I liked the fact that people literally died when its shadow touched them, though. That was a properly creepy and unsettling touch.

What was Bilis's last name, anyone?
 
 
h1ppychick
08:50 / 02.01.07
Manger, apparently. Are we going to play 'decrypt the must-be-an-anagram-shurely? game?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:11 / 02.01.07
I think it's more likely that Manger is just a reference to birth - "What rough beast..." and so on. Although obviously 'End of Days' was much more an Easter story than a Christmas one (he dies for us, he is risen, he forgives you, he is taken up into heaven...).
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
09:49 / 02.01.07
'End of Days' was much more an Easter story than a Christmas one (he dies for us, he is risen, he forgives you, he is taken up into heaven...).

My thoughts exactly.

Did anyone else wonder about the references in "Captain Jack Harkness" to Jack's best friend dying after being tortured in the war against the vile creatures? Is (Torchwood's imposter) Captain Jack in fact a chum of the Savior? Or did he possibly swap identities with JC back in AD33 and let his friend die on the cross in his place. Might that explain the whole Easterish rising from the dead thing in the "End Of Days"?

All of course explainable as alien involvement in human history - as Jack's reference (which I don't recall verbatim, sorry) to "You people always looking for supernatural explanations" when Ianto reads from the Book Of Daniel as Abadon is on the way might hint?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:11 / 02.01.07
I don't know about any of that. But the "worst enemy imaginable" that Jack joined up to go to war with as a boy - well, is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Sort of pepperpot shaped things with screechy voices?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
10:12 / 02.01.07
Some Googling around for Bilis Manger leads to these thoughts:

Bilis = Bile in Latin
Manger = to eat (in French, but ultimately derived from Latin)

Thus his name could be read as Bile Eater. Which, um, leads to a class of D&D orc and not much else that meaningful in this context.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
10:14 / 02.01.07
But the "worst enemy imaginable" that Jack joined up to go to war with as a boy - well, is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Sort of pepperpot shaped things with screechy voices?

Yeah, probably makes more sense in the Whoniverse. Though Roman Daleks would be fun - maybe that's why they had straight, flattish roads? Sorry, I'll stop this threadrotting now.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:16 / 02.01.07
Manger, apparently. Are we going to play 'decrypt the must-be-an-anagram-shurely? game?

No, I just couldn't remember it and it was annoying me. Although interesting that it's a proper word, rather than just a name.
 
  

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