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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Battlestar Galactica Season Three

  
  

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sleazenation
11:07 / 10.12.06
Yeah, killing Kat here was a bit of a waste, and kind of drew further parallel with Black Market, Billy's swansong episode. In many ways I would have rather Starbuck had died. I mean, it is the ultimate thing that you don't do and could lead to quite interesting places while closing off some of the less interesting Apollo/Starbuck stuff and the recurring Deus Ex Starbuck motif...

And yes, was it my imagination or were there a number of scenes in the recap that had never appeared in the show...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:41 / 10.12.06
Black Market was not the episode in which Billy died. Could I ask again for the people who relentlessly complain about the show to please demonstrate some evidence that they pay any attention when they watch it?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:09 / 10.12.06
And yes, was it my imagination or were there a number of scenes in the recap that had never appeared in the show...

This has happened before...they pull stuff from the deleted/edited scenes once in awhile to fill in the exposition...

On the whole, I agree with the complaints that the episode was kind of clunky and not totally in the BSG voice, and killing off Kat was a bit of a waste, but I wasn't such a big fan of having two "cocky maverick pilots with big chips on their shoulders." Seemed kind of redundant and pointless.

I did, however, enjoy that that the episode advanced the plot, and as pointed out by others, show that traveling in space is dangerous and they truly are living day to day, basically. Drew a nice contrast to the previous episode where they are taking time out to box each other.

Something that bugged me, however, was the revelation that what Biers sees between death and resurrection is the 'final five' Cylons. That was new information and it was presented quickly and taken a bit for granted. Did anyone else have an inkling that that was what she was seeing from the previous scene with her?
 
 
sleazenation
14:34 / 10.12.06
My mistake - I conflated Black Market, the universally acknowledged worst episode of season two, with Sacrifice, an episode that was a pretty close runner up.
 
 
some guy
15:14 / 10.12.06
lead to quite interesting places while closing off some of the less interesting Apollo/Starbuck stuff

Am I the only person who actually likes the Apollo/Starbuck stuff? There's some very potent material to explore there, especially with Zak in the background. I'm fascinated by the way Starbuck - completely out of control herself - appears to have turned boy scout Lee into a similar mess last year. I wonder to what degree Zak influences Kara's affection for Lee and even which Adama was the convenient stand in for the other.

With just a handful of people left (and Roslin's edict that they need to start making babies) I'm surprised we don't see a lot more romantic interplay between the various characters. It's one of the structural things that seems to have been overlooked (like taking three seasons to address the food issue).

What do they do with Kat gone? How do they process nuggets who weren't pilots at the time of the original Cylon attack? Where are they coming from? How many Vipers do they have left? Shouldn't it be a major issue when they lose a resource like this? For that matter, where is their ammo coming from? Shouldn't we get the episode where the Viper pilots are instructed to take single shots instead of sprays to conserve bullets? Does one of the ships have a convenient bullet-making machine?

And can almost all remaining humans really fit into the Galactica at once?
 
 
Seth
15:51 / 10.12.06
I wasn't so sure what people's problems were with this episode. I mean, it wasn't a blinder by anyone's definition. But it doesn't seem to warrant singling out as bad by comparison to the rest of the series. I had no real attachment to Kat so I wasn't really moved by her heroics or fussed that she was dead, but then I don't have any attachment to any of the characters on the show.

All the stuff in the recap was accounted for in previous esisodes. There was nothing there that didn't jog my memory for an earlier scene.

But last week's boxing match was excellent. Really good stuff. I found myself caring about the main cast for the span of forty five minutes in a manner that I haven't in a long time. I'm convinced that all it takes with this show is to slow the pace down occasionally and see the characters off duty, as all I really get from this series is a bunch of character traits thrown against the wall in high pressure situations for the most part. So that was pretty awesome as far as I'm concerned.

Great paper shortage scene in this one. Reminded me of the "I tore my pants" crash landing in Rocks and Shoals. Funny, that show was a Ronald Moore episode and seems like a BSG blueprint in many ways. I wonder how collaborative the BSG writing process is. Other shows will name writers but have many other people working on the script too.
 
 
sleazenation
15:54 / 10.12.06
A lot of these resources questions are kind of obviated by stuff like the arrival/departure of the Pegasus. I figure that the notion is that the Galactica has been restaffed by all the pilots/vipers/raptors and human resources from the Pegasus (Although the subplot of the pegasus's deck chief and its civillian fleet appears to have been skipped over, and Lay your Burden's Down I established that there was approximately 20 raptors left in the fleet, with a further two lost in that ep). There is still a question of fuel tho.
 
 
some guy
16:27 / 10.12.06
I wasn't so sure what people's problems were with this episode. I mean, it wasn't a blinder by anyone's definition. But it doesn't seem to warrant singling out as bad by comparison to the rest of the series.

The main problem is sequencing. The two major storylines come out of nowhere and the emotional climax to Unfinished Business is dropped. Kat's storyline comes out of left field and improves neither her previous appearances nor the direction of the show in general.

And then there are the little things. Are we really supposed to believe Enzo is free to walk around Galactica and hang out on the launch deck? How do they know of the food source if they can't penetrate the system? Does an admiral really know every last one of his crew and think of them as sons and daughters despite no previous hints in the series? Does he really sit by the bed of one after regretting getting too close to the crew in the immediately preceding episode? I can overlook those things to some degree but my biggest problem is that the "voice" just didn't feel right. But I admit the first year and a half of BSG set some pretty high standards that the show started missing around season 2.5 for me. Sometimes we get an Unfinished Business or an Exodus Part 2 that match the quality and urgency of those earlier episodes but we're also getting Black Markets and Passages now. Maybe that's a necessary evil when the production staff has to juggle seven additional episodes?

A lot of these resources questions are kind of obviated by stuff like the arrival/departure of the Pegasus. I figure that the notion is that the Galactica has been restaffed by all the pilots/vipers/raptors and human resources from the Pegasus

I can buy that. Pity we never got that scene. Presumably they all scurried over to Galactica when Pegasus rammed the BaseStar.

Lay your Burden's Down I established that there was approximately 20 raptors left in the fleet, with a further two lost in that ep).

This is what I'm talking about. Losing a single ship should be catastrophic at this point.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
23:02 / 10.12.06
That's "Lay Down Your Burdens", not "Lay Your Burdens Down."

The paper shortage line was the best scene in the entire episode.
 
 
sleazenation
23:09 / 10.12.06
...and there was apostrophe error too!
 
 
kowalski
02:43 / 11.12.06
For that matter, where is their ammo coming from? Shouldn't we get the episode where the Viper pilots are instructed to take single shots instead of sprays to conserve bullets? Does one of the ships have a convenient bullet-making machine?

In the episode where the "Peace Activists" are introduced, we visit a machine shop on Galactica where they're manufacturing new rounds for the Vipers. The main armament of both the Vipers and Galactica seem to be some form of rail gun, which basically means you just have to machine a solid chunk of matter into the right shape for your gun track and then chain them together so you can fire automatically. Assuming that they still have the ore processing ship kicking around (and it wasn't one of the ones they just lost going through The Passage), the raw materials for this aren't going to be an issue either.
 
 
Planet B
01:08 / 13.12.06
Worst. Episode. Ever. (Okay, not really. but a very close second to Black Market)

The more I think about this episode the more ludicrous it becomes. What exactly was the food problem? And how exactly was it going to be solved by going into a highly radioactive area? Algae or whatever, don't you mean Soylent Green? And speaking of that, why wouldn't people resort to cannibalism or eating cardboard or something?

And then all that is dropped as we find out it's just a way to introduce a character from Kat's past and to kill her off (horrible idea, btw).

I simply don't buy the food shortage idea, not after barely any mention of it for two-plus seasons. And this on a fleet that seems to have no shortage of alcohol EVER. They must just sit around and make ammo and alcohol and forgot about the food. It may be a conceit, but it seems that it's always been assumed the fleet has methods of food production. Why the sudden change now? Simply a deus ex machina, as it turns out.

The other main problem I have is that this fleet is on the run for it's fucking lives. Which is also why I thought it entirely unbelievable that they would have stopped off at New Kobol. It's like a horror movie. You don't stop running until Jason's head is entirely off his body and said body is buried in the ground. You use every asset at your disposal.

This is -- as the original Adama used to say -- a rag-tag fleet. It should be assumed that some criminals and people of questionable character have moved into positions where they are called on to be "responsible" citizens. The fact that Kara reacted to Kat like she did was entirely unbelievable. Talking about "honorable" people. Like who? Her? Or the Prez, who hides babies? Or Adama, who has his own issues? It would have made more sense to me, to have this past revealed about Kat but have her accepted for what she has done since we've known her.

The writing on this show just gets more and more convoluted and less and less interesting as plots are continued to be dropped. The episodic nature of the entire story arc is conducive to NEVER having these inane one-shot episodes, so why are there so damn many of them?

You can probably guess this by now, but I'm not nearly as much a fan of this show as I was a year ago. Time to go re-watch episodes of Dexter, the new best show on TV.
 
 
Planet B
01:12 / 13.12.06
oh, and one more thing. every writer on this show that adds another clapping for Tigh, or Adama, or Kat or whomever should be shot. there were two in this episode which is up from the 1.3 per episode average (as I've computed it). I can hear them lose about 10,000 viewers with each one of these cheesefests. cut it out already.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:25 / 13.12.06
sigh...

it's not a food shortage problem. it's a food contamination problem that caused a shortage. hence the reason it just came up this episode. It was a plot device designed to get them to a specific location in setup for the next episode.

and the solution wasn't 'short on food? let's enter a dangerous star cloud.' the solution was 'let's find a planet with algae that we can use to make new clean food. oh shit, the closest one is in the middle of this dangerous star cloud. how can we get to it quickly?'

kind of simple bit of story logic.

and kat...yeah, all that stuff sucked, no argument there.

i'm mostly perturbed with Tigh back to status quo. I need scruffy beard and bandage over eye, none of this dainty little eyepatch and smooth skin!
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:28 / 13.12.06
The other main problem I have is that this fleet is on the run for it's fucking lives. Which is also why I thought it entirely unbelievable that they would have stopped off at New Kobol. It's like a horror movie. You don't stop running until Jason's head is entirely off his body and said body is buried in the ground. You use every asset at your disposal.

Assuming you mean New Caprica...well, wasn't that the point? The smart people, or 'good guys,' knew it was a bad idea (Rosyln/Adama), but Baltar used it win to an election and he's a 'BAD guy' and self-serving.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
02:56 / 13.12.06
I think Planet B is talking about New Kobol, not New Caprica: y'know, doing that thing whereby things ze MADE UP IN HIR HEAD is the basis of criticism, which I always find makes it easier and more satisfying to slag something off.
 
 
some guy
03:48 / 13.12.06
Or possibly just made a slip? I'm sure you've never done that, of course...
 
 
Planet B
04:38 / 13.12.06
yeah, good god. sorry i can't remember every friggin detail. sorry, frakkin detail.
 
 
Planet B
04:46 / 13.12.06
and about this "moving the plot along"... are you referring to the fact that they are moving further towards Earth? is this not something they could explain in just five minutes on any episode? why a whole episode for this. it's obvious that they only reason they had the contamination (sorry, must have been a bit too stoned at the beginning to understand their convoluted BS) was to bring civilians on board the Galactica. and the only reason they did this was to expose Kat's past. this is the second or third episode this season I've deleted from my DVR the second after it ended because I knew I would never want to watch it again.

I still hold out hope for this show because it has such great acting (most of the time) and great ideas (when they decide to pull them out), but it's pretty disappointing most of the time.

and, also, don't the utter cheeseball moments bother anyone else? this season has had enough of those to fill a whole hour show. the biggest problem with it is I just don't believe these characters in these situations would continually react like they're at a frakkin football game.
 
 
PatrickMM
06:35 / 13.12.06
I'd agree there's been too much clapping for Adama, who very rarely seems to actually do anything any more. You've got to earn those clapping moments, in the miniseries, it's fantastic, in every episode, it's overkill.

I'd still contend that New Caprica wasn't the horrible idea the show made it out to be. They cylon threat was apparently resolved and they have no reason beyond faith to assume that there even is an Earth. So, if they reach a planet that's inhabitable, isn't that a better option than to keep going through space, possibly forever. The flashbacks we see to the early days of New Caprica would support this.

I feel like the show's problem at this point is just that it's been too long since we got a great episode. The plots are going along, but nothing's really resolving, and the development we do get, like with Sharon/Helo in the two parter conclusion, or Lee/Kara last week is barely touched upon in later episodes. It may be there implicitly, but there's too much of a feeling of who's week is this? Okay, they'll go through a crisis, everyone else will be cool. These flaws were always there, but the quality of the episodes made them less noticable. This string of lesser episodes has brought all the flaws to the fore. I still think the show's great, but this week was really off, and I feel like there's a laziness that went into it, like they knew they just had to coast until the midseason finale, and that's a problem.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:13 / 13.12.06
I'm pretty sure Adama/Roslyn feel that the Cylons will have a better chance of finding them if they stop running and settle on a planet. And, I think that's what the writers think as well, cause, you know, it happened.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:18 / 13.12.06
and about this "moving the plot along"... are you referring to the fact that they are moving further towards Earth?

yes.

is this not something they could explain in just five minutes on any episode? why a whole episode for this.

because they could use it to put the fleet through hell once again.

it's obvious that they only reason they had the contamination (sorry, must have been a bit too stoned at the beginning to understand their convoluted BS) was to bring civilians on board the Galactica. and the only reason they did this was to expose Kat's past.

Well 1) I don't think it's obvious that that was why they did it. and 2) I don't think it's fair to criticize a show because you were stoned and didn't pay attention to what they told you on the television screen.

and, also, don't the utter cheeseball moments bother anyone else? this season has had enough of those to fill a whole hour show. the biggest problem with it is I just don't believe these characters in these situations would continually react like they're at a frakkin football game.

Yes to the first half, Not Sure to the second half. I hate the cheeseball stuff as much as anyone and it does get really tiresome.
 
 
Seth
23:28 / 13.12.06
I think that many people would probably clap quite frequently under many of the circumstances in which people in BSG have clapped. None of that stuff seems out of keeping with how people might react. I'll admit that it may be repetitive in the context of a series on telly, but it doesn't seem unrealistic.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
00:21 / 14.12.06
sorry, must have been a bit too stoned at the beginning to understand their convoluted BS

Ahahahaha. Now I get it. You were too stoned to actually understand what was happening, but you still blame the show.

I'm starting to wonder why it is that BSG brings out the haterz so much when it's not completely up to par. This has been happening all along -- not just last season and this, but in Season One as well. I think maybe it's because BSG's narrative structure, and its visual and auditory style, are premised on producing a hyperreal/hyperemotional state. The best episodes consistently draw the carpet out from under our feet, time after time. It's adrenalising, like watching the best action movie you've ever seen, and it's also kind of addictive. And after a while, I think people probably learn to 'bring on' that affective hyperreal state before we start watching -- an expectation, or conditioning, whatever. When the tension loosens, arcwise and in terms of editing, viewers feel like they haven't gotten their fix.

Thoughts?
 
 
Seth
00:59 / 14.12.06
Not so much for me. I don't mind when the series slows down, because for me the main element the show seems to be lacking in is characterisation. It doesn't sit with me the way that Roslyn or Adama seem to arbitraily swap between the roles of good cop and bad cop with some episodes, for example. I have no real fix on why they do it for individual circumstances. I don't understand why Adama dropped any disciplinary measures for Helo, for example, when he was clearly flouting a chain of command that Adama wholeheartedly believes in, even if he doesn't believe in those particular orders. Perhaps this was indirectly addressed in his desire to have Tigh back as XO, but it was never explicitly mentioned to be that and so doesn't properly feature into the text itself, only an after-the-fact reading into the text.
 
 
some guy
01:09 / 14.12.06
a hyperreal/hyperemotional state

I disagree with this - I think the show comes under fire because in a sense it set the standard too high early on. Something like Black Market or Passages just isn't nearly as good on a multitude of levels as something like 33 or Act of Contrition. Nothing shows this up more IMO than following Unfinished Business with Passages, which just fails for me on nearly every front.

I place a lot of blame on the writing; BSG used to feel like a cohesive unit and now it feels like we're getting writers who don't quite know how the pieces fit in the puzzle. Characterizations, motivations and even developmental arcs are being mutilated on what sometimes seems to be a weekly basis and the plothammering is becoming an issue for me.

It really doesn't need a complicated over-analysis in my view. Every show produces duds from time to time - even BSG.
 
 
some guy
14:04 / 15.12.06
Saw the season finale at a theatrical screening last night. Several of the writing staff appeared afterward for a Q&A session and indicated that a fourth season may not happen if ratings continue to slide.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:20 / 15.12.06
the ratings have been sliding? it's crazy that BSG could be in danger, given the amount widespread praise heaped on it. they are moving it to Sundays next year, which is usually a good night for US TV shows.

thank you for not saying anything specific about the new episode. would love to see BSG on a big screen, though.
 
 
some guy
15:50 / 15.12.06
the ratings have been sliding? it's crazy that BSG could be in danger, given the amount widespread praise heaped on it. they are moving it to Sundays next year, which is usually a good night for US TV shows.

I don't follow ratings, but the writers at the Q&A seemed to think not getting picked up for a fourth season was a real danger. I agree Sunday is actually a better slot in general, but does SciFi have original programming then? Without scheduling support it could be a bad move. I wonder if SciFi is planning a second night of original programming and using BSG to anchor it...

thank you for not saying anything specific about the new episode. would love to see BSG on a big screen, though.

I considered writing a spoiler summary but the thread title and abstract didn't indicate that spoilers were allowed, so I held back (I know I would have hated to come across a spoiler post personally). I can start a new thread if anyone wants to know what happens?

It was fun on the big screen but the "treated video" technique is much more obvious.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:56 / 15.12.06
i think one topic for BSG is fine...it's been a pretty well behaved topic so far, and since the show is on tonight and on the net by tomorrow, we might as well wait to discuss. can't wait!

i guess if they are in danger of being cancelled they might be putting full steam on wrapping up plot lines ala Bab5 season 4.
 
 
PatrickMM
03:04 / 16.12.06
So, the midseason finale has aired. I won't go into spoilers yet, so just general impressions. I thought it was the best episode in a while, but there's so little payoff, it'll take until the second part of this to find out how the story works. Ultimately, I was left wanting more, not so much in an excited, good way, more in a the episode just didn't have quite enough way.

That said, Dean Stockwell is on his own planet and makes every scene he's in a joy to watch.
 
 
some guy
05:48 / 16.12.06
Dean Stockwell was brilliant on the BSG but his later line about "pestilence" was confusing. Do the Cylons actually have a plan, and what what New Caprica all about?

Starbuck is obvious using the "sanctity of marriage" as an emotional crutch. Why is she so afraid of having a healthy relationship?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:45 / 16.12.06
she doesn't feel like she deserves one, which is leftover trauma from her mother abusing her and from her guilt over zack's death. pushing the limits of herself and her morality is how she punishes herself.

agreed on the episode being good but not feeling full enough. i also think the scenes in the Temple could have been handled a lot more beautifully, especially with Tyrol's reverence... i hope we get an actual mystical type reveal about this temple, though.

baltar + caprica... this is a curious turn of events. i wonder what effect that will truly have.
 
 
Planet B
23:39 / 16.12.06
Do the Cylons actually have a plan, and what what New Caprica all about?

the bigger question is do the writers actually have a plan? the answer is obviously no. and that is, and always has been, my major complaint with BSG. it seems to me they should have mapped out the major plot points and stuff before they begin each season (at least), but it is obvious they don't when they add throwaway episodes which add nothing to the plot or the characterization.

I agree with the previous comment, however, that this was a good episode even though it was all buildup and no payoff.

and to those worrying about my mind state while watching, I'm more sure after watching the most recent episode that it wouldn't make any more sense (the reasoning for the algae or whatever, that is) if I were stone cold sober.
 
 
Seth
01:57 / 17.12.06
Algae is wicked.
 
  

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