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Battlestar Galactica Season Three

 
  

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kowalski
20:20 / 08.10.06
Well, it would be great if things came out somewhat darker, but 9/10 says Helo's Sharon somehow requisitions the robot cylons sent to ambush her landing party and it's their guns stopping the massacre that we hear at the end there. About the only human vs. cylon firefight that hasn't ultimately ended in divine intervention was the cylon boarding party episode way back when.

When all this New Caprica business is settled someone in the fleet really needs to start manufacturing RPGs.

Things have started off pretty murky, which seems to happen every time they decide to take the show out into the wilds of British Columbia for a big arc of episodes. I'm still hopeful it will coalesce though. The Iraq allusions are intermittently fantastic and juvenile, but since F/X was too cowardly to keep running Over There we'll have to take what we can get.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:55 / 08.10.06
The subplot of Kara Thrace's stolen ovaries is finally followed up. (and the long delay of of following up something so important is one of the things that hurts the show's narrative integrity). But the way in which it's all handled that leaves me feeling... uncomfortable. Kasey is starbuck's child, from her eggs, fertilized without her consent. She is, in effect, a rape baby without the rape. Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable with this? I realize that in its first two episodes this season, Galactica has already explored many things things that are taboo for other dramas grounded outside of the freedoms of the SF/fantasy genre, but this left me feeling unsatisfied and disconcerted, particularly in the light of previous portrayals, or insinuations of rapes and attempted rapes on the show.

Um, I think you are supposed to feel uncomfortable about it. For all the metaphysical stuff going on, the Cylons are still Bad Guys. Kara's ultimate reaction could possibly be a decoy manuveur on her part. If she feels something towards the child, that is perfectly reasonable, I think. Her hand holding with Leonen is the curious part, and I'm not sure I believe it to be genuine on her part. But who knows? This is the start of a story arc for her, so we'll have to see where it goes.

As for the rest of the 2 episodes, I thought it was handled very well. The Iraq stuff is obvious and heavy-handed, but it still is an interesting role-reversal and is certainly a topic worth exploring, I think. Duck's storyline was particularly poignant, as it goes a long way towards showing people how someone could arrive at the point in which they could go forward with suicide bombing.

As much as I like the Galactica setting, it's a welcome evolution of the show to spend a time exploring the characters in vastly different environments and conditions that what we normally see. The show continues to layer story, and I definitely don't feel like we've waited "too long" to see the embryo thing continue.

Quite looking forward to how this season progresses, and what it does to our characters. I was trying to imagine what we will happen when they inevitably leave the planet and start up the convoy again...interactions, status, relationships...nothing will ever be normal again. It looks like, from the previews, that Baltar's path might be veering off into Classic BSG territory soon enough.
 
 
sleazenation
23:32 / 08.10.06
Keith - I think you are misunderstanding me. Its not the fact of starbuck's child being the product of rape that makes me uncomfortable, although it is powerful emotive situation. No, for me its the fact that she's the product of a 'sci-fi' rape without the actual rape.

This is a show where a prisoner has been routinely raped (by humans) in the past (and those rapes have been neatly swept under the carpet when the victim disappeared from the brig) and where another character is granting sexual favours to a member of an occypying force in return for the life of the man she loves...

I dunno, it seemed to cheapen the subject matter to have story that is increasingly about the violence and brutality of war duck such an important aspect as this, particularly when so many armed groups in the real world are using rape as a weapon.

And idea of rape babies is further problematised by the hokey revalation in season one that the cylons can only become pregnant if love is involved (I can't remember if it is implied that this is god's love)...

THe only narrative reason I can see for the writers to go the sci-fi route is that they didn't want to have Kara pregnant for 9 months in the middle of season 2, and particularly not during Home...
 
 
PatrickMM
04:26 / 09.10.06
I absoultely loved the premiere, for me, this is the best two episodes the series has ever produced. I loved the miniseries, but as the series went on, it started to get a bit too safe. Particularly during the Apollo almost dies four episodes in a row segment of season two, there was no real danger for the characters, and things were stagnating. That's why I think the jump at the end of season two was essential, and these episodes have shown how it's made the show fresh and dynamic again.

I was never a big fan of the military stuff, so the focus on cylons and people in trouble is a welcome change. And more than that, this is the rare piece of sci-fi that attacks real world issues and uses the genre to its full potential. I don't think you could tell a story like this about the actual Iraq situation, but here, we get all the political message, and are able to keep a distance from reality that makes it easier to tell the story. I really felt the characters' desperation and loss of control, and I can't wait to see where this goes from here.

And about the Starbuck storyline, I find it interesting that nearly the exact same storyline was done for Scully on The X-Files. Not sure what that adds to the debate, but clearly it's a recurring sci-fi element.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
12:14 / 09.10.06
Fuck, that was depressing. It was great -- I liked the Iraq references, the mention of 'insurgents', the grimy, dull sense that everyone is slowly losing their marbles under the intensity of occupation.

It's interesting that people are jumping to the conclusion that this is, in fact, Starbuck's baby and not some kid Leoben requisitioned to play the part. On the other hand, even when Leoben was bweing tortured by Starbuck way back in Season One, he said there was some 'special connection' between them. Maybe it is her baby. I also read spoilers that said she was drugged -- could that be why she suddenly starts holding Leoben's hand? Or is she just pretending, so she can kill him again?

and sleaze, we never actually know for certain that Cylons can only get pregnant if love is involved. We only know that Sharon believes that (and so does Six? My memory is foggy.) Who the hell knows what crazy myths about reproduction the Cylons have... I do think it's a little odd that there's no equivalent storyline on New Caprica that works as a parallel to 'The Farm'. Surely the Cylons would still be working on making human-cylon babies, even within the new regime of 'love and redemption'?

The thing I really love about this show, that I thin it's also really easy to dislike, is that it refuses the viewer the option of turning off from the real world. This is the real world -- made hyperreal. It's not escapism. I can see people perceiving this as 'heavyhanded metaphor' but I think it's actually pretty brave.
 
 
e-n
14:18 / 09.10.06
First of all Frakk, there's two episodes!!!
I just watched the first and now I can't sleep.
The downside to living in a hotel.Firewall.

Secondly thank you No panic for posting that webisode link.
Hopefully they will keep me occupied until the second one downloads.

Other than that..that was fantastic..although Fat Lee was a bit TOO fat.

Is this running straight through this season or are we getting a huge break in the middle again?

I don't think I could handle that.
 
 
kowalski
15:16 / 09.10.06
Having watched both episodes again, I can now say that they're fantastic, that the Iraq allusions and planetside expanse of what they're attempting become more palatable on repeat viewing. Also they've really nailed their cinematography of the camp, it's now completely convincing.
 
 
Red Concrete
17:30 / 09.10.06
This is a show where a prisoner has been routinely raped (by humans) in the past (and those rapes have been neatly swept under the carpet when the victim disappeared from the brig) and where another character is granting sexual favours to a member of an occypying force in return for the life of the man she loves...

I dunno, it seemed to cheapen the subject matter to have story that is increasingly about the violence and brutality of war duck such an important aspect as this.


sleazenation, I'm not so sure the show is ducking it. In fact I think that the show is becoming less about military violence, and more and more about more subtle ways of attacking an enemy.

We've seen the Cylons' apparent desire to become "human", or become truly "alive" result in reproductive experiments (I would not be surprised if related reasons emerge for their keeping the human population alive on New Caprica). And I think that Kara's torture, has become more vicious, not less, since it moved into this territory (whether the child is really hers or not). The real tension in the child scenario, once Leoben left them alone, was whether Kara was going to go nuts and kill it. Apparently (?) she has now accpeted that this is a child, and not a monster.

Remember we also have Boomer's baby somewhere in the camp (?). And now Sharon is back on duty as well... it will be interesting to see how the "evil robot" view of the enemy starts to shift.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:00 / 09.10.06
Just watched the first two, and my Galactica-lovin' is back in full effect.

I think everyone's getting a leetle too into the parallels as being about Iraq, though... it's a larger War On Terror thing. Given the parallels with BG (ever since the original) and the lost tribes of Israel, New Caprica is more a Palestine allegory (though with the sides reversed and smudged, as this show at its best is best at).

as someone said upthread Osama Bin Tigh, though.

No way. Tigh's Mullah Omar. Hence the removal of the eye.

I love the way this show, at its best, instead of using the tropes of SF to make allusions to the real world, uses the tropes of the real world to make great SF. And then spins them back on themselves.

Sorry, I'm kind of drunk at the moment, but... last season it was all "whoah, they've got suicide bombers and everything, and they're getting us to see the reason they're doing it (with the Cylon religion and all)". Now it's like "whoah, the characters we already know and love are now sending people out to do this shit".


And sleaze- wrt the "rape baby without the rape"- I thought the whole point of the body farm episodes was as an (admittedly clumsy and a bit rubbish) analogy for rape, as regards impregnation? I do agree that divorcing that from the actual physical rape as "brutality of war" thing with the Pegasus crew is a bit crass... I think they're making two points which are actually the same point in two different storylines, which I agree is... clumsy, to say the least.

But back to the lovin'. After the three one-offs in season 2, all of which left me a little cold, I'm SO back to this being the best programme on telly.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:01 / 09.10.06
Oh, and I agree with Red Concrete that Kara's torture, has become more vicious, not less, since it moved into this territory.
 
 
sleazenation
22:53 / 09.10.06
sleazenation, I'm not so sure the show is ducking it. In fact I think that the show is becoming less about military violence, and more and more about more subtle ways of attacking an enemy.

I don't think Galactica is about the military violence either as much as it is about man's inhumanity to man.

But yeah, the more you probe the various plot points in Galatica the more insubstantial they become. While it is plausible that Kasey is Starbuck's child it is, as red points out, equally plausible that she came from elsewhere.

I can't remember when it was said, but didn't sharon or 6 state outright at some point that cylons failed to procreate, to be fruitful. But can we trust this information?

So many plot points have been handed to the audience through unreliable narrators, leaving us with very little we can trust, but unfortunately, this lack of reliability extends to the chief series writer.

We were told pretty unequivically that Laura Roslin was dying from cancer right back in the miniseries, and yet that cancer was magically cured by the panacea of cylon blood.

It was a deus ex machina move that struck me as pretty clumsy. Another moment where the writer's hand is visible forcing the narrative in one direction before intervening again later to change course again....
 
 
Disco is My Class War
03:49 / 10.10.06
Oh, come on, sleaze, the above is only a problem if you don't like that the writers hold out on telling us exactly what is going on. They like doing that. Makes it more interesting. There is no 'right way' to interpret what we know about the Cylons. Indeterminate television. Get frakkin' used to it.

Meanwhile, Baltar in the preview for next week: "Am I a Cylon?"

I bet he's not, but it would explain how the hell he survived the original nuclear blast.
 
 
sleazenation
06:46 / 10.10.06
Don't get me wrong - indeterminate television is great when done well - I'd point to Ultraviolet as being a great example, but I fear that Galactica bears more in common with the Alias school of indeterminate television where revelation subverts revelation giving the impression that the writers don't actually have a consistent story to tell...
 
 
Tom Coates
16:54 / 10.10.06
I don't think that's quite true - I get the impression that they have a vague idea of the plot arc they want to get involved in, although I could very well be wrong and I think there's certainly been some veering around going on. I do agree with you though about a couple of the plot points - the Laura Roslin recovery was troubling at least, and it's not clear to me why they wouldn't use cylon blood again to do this kind of thing all through the series. That was clumsy I fear. Although if they've got any sense, they'll bring up the blood-fear a bit later on. Same with Kasey - they'd be stupid if they ignored the possibility of creepy as fuck stuff going on with the babies, even as they are aggravating plot devices that move things in one direction or another.

Personally, I suspect that baby Kasey was hurt by the Cylons to make Kara bond with them or that she will resurrect if killed, which would be totally fucking creepy and really quite fascinating.
 
 
sleazenation
18:02 / 10.10.06
Kasey as one of the twelve models of cylons would bebeautiful and poigniant - a self created race that cannot, for some reason, procreate as humans do with ease, instead develop a cylon child model in an attempt to fulfil their desire for offspring... but it isn't offspring, its just another model of cylon...

The trouble is I can see theat being a logistical nightmare to pull off (ensuring that a child looks the same for three years would be an impossible task). On top of that, I'm not sure where a baby cylon could go...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
18:20 / 10.10.06
I really don't think BSG is veering into Alias territory with it's plotlines...that show was (unfortunately) a mess.

Galactica seems to follow a fairly coherent and directed plot. The Kobol/Arrow/Earth plot is the only one that is getting short shrift in my mind... they really should make that a priority soon, doing an episode about them moving towards finding that star system they need to...

At this point, though, I'm just fascinated to see what happens when they inevitably leave the planet. Does Helo go back to being a lowly Raptor comm guy? Does all go back to normal, how does that screw up the characters?
 
 
Seth
22:49 / 10.10.06
I'd be willing to bet that Tigh will be dead by that point and things will have changed with Baltar unless he does something pretty huge to redeem himself (and even then he'll still be pretty universally hated). Besides that I don't think they'll change too much.
 
 
Tom Coates
23:50 / 10.10.06
The problem with the Earth / Kobol plot is that it's so bloody episodic in design. All that can really happen next is that they find some additional clue somewhere or they find Earth. The latest series of Stargate have all been a bit like that - some clue leads you to some place where you find some minor revelation until the next episode where something similar happens. It's moving the plot forward by force - dragging it into the next stage somehow. To actually do anything significant with Kobol / Earth as a plotline, I think they'd have to tie it in with some other plotline that's going on - like with New Caprica and the Presidential election, only - of course - they're not going to be able to do the whole 'do they believe in Laura Roslin' religion vs. politics approach again. That's just not going to work at all. Basically if they get off planet, and assuming that she has any reputation left at all, then she's going to be followed until she finally pops her clogs of various Cyclon blood parasites.

I think it's pretty clear that when they get back into space - assuming that they do indeed get back into space - that everything will have changed dramatically, that the structures that underlie the whole military complex will have different players all through them. I'm also seriously interested in how they're going to get Jamie Bamber back to hot again, which seems like it's got to be a plot priority if they don't want to drive away thirty percent of their audience.

Would love the idea of child Cylon among the twelve. I totally agree that would creepy and bizarre and fascinating and I also agree that they'll never be able to carry it off with any regularity.
 
 
sorenson
05:30 / 11.10.06
This turned into a much longer post than I expected. It has two parts - speculation on who the cylon models are, and speculation about the major themes and future directions of the series.

1. OK so can we speculate about who the other cylon models might be? So far we have

Number Six
Boomer
Leoben
Creepy preacher guy (cavil)
Number Three (Lucy Lawless)
Number Five (public relations guy)
Simon (doctor on Caprica who took out Kara's ovary)

That's seven. According to several sources there are twelve humanoid models, which leaves five unrevealed. Upthread there was a suggestion that Kasey might be a cylon, but I am inclined to believe that she really is a human/cylon hybrid, and so will grow. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think she is about the right age to have been born about 9 months after they stole Kara's embryo. Although we have Gaius plaintively asking if he is a cylon in the teaser for the next episode, I think that it is unlikely (though it would explain his escape from Caprica as MD said).

The main question for me, is, will one/some of our core characters be revealed as cylons, or will the remaining models all be new characters? And where are they now, in the logic of the series? We have often seen shots of many cylons wandering around (in old Caprica for example), or in councils of war (like when they forced Gaius to sign the death warrant) - where are the others in these situations?

2. As for where the series will go, I don't think it will be as simple as the humans escaping and the cylons chasing after them again. It seems to me that so far the focus of this third series is on the relationships between individual humans and cylons - to some degree it always was but it seems to be becoming more and more central to the narrative tension (for example the stuff between Kara and Leoben). There is also increasingly more differentiation between the cylons - Boomer and Six who have been deeply affected by their close relationships with humans, and the others who are able to keep more distance because they lack personal experience. It is all very much about how experience changes one, and also about how enemies can only really be enemies when you don't know them very well.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:33 / 11.10.06
It will be curious when the Cylon Homeworld story arc starts sometime this season...perhaps then we will meet some more models.

Speaking of which, there was some wild snippets in that preview that showed some kind of Tron-ish world...looking forward to seeing what that turns out to be.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:23 / 11.10.06
I was under the impression that it was definite that Lucy Lawless was a Cylon; in fact, one of the leaders. Isn't Dean Stockwell one as well?
 
 
thewalker
02:08 / 14.10.06
of course if Baltar was a Cylon number six wouldnt ave had to seduce him or get involved with him on capricia in any way.....
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
02:26 / 14.10.06
This show is on now. I am stupidly behind.

*sigh*

I'll turn in my blank badge now?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:32 / 15.10.06
If Baltar were a Cylon all they'd have to do is wake him up. They certainly wouldn't have to hold a gun to his head to get him to sign papers. Even if he were a malfunctioning sleeper that doesn't accept that he's a Cylon they could just shoot him and make him Resurrect.

Which reminds me, when PR Guy shoots Caprica Six he says "She'll be back", do the Cylons have another Resurrection Ship nearby or is New Caprica close enough to the Colonies for them not to be needed?

I love that this show has me so conflicted about the occupation, I don't want the Cylons there but I just can't support Mad Eye Tigh's willingness to kill any number of humans to take out a couple of Cylons or 'someone who might have talked to a Cylon once'. It's going to be really interesting if Galactica Boomer II has to have a powerplay with Tigh for command of the Resistance to make him step down.
 
 
sleazenation
09:42 / 15.10.06
Listening to the podcast there is a lot that doesn't quite make it into the show that would make it better. Little things like Gaeta not managing to send the message in time, by flipping the dog bowl, didn't really convince me in the show, but the revelation that he did flip the dog bowl in time but that someone who knew nothing about the signal just saw an upturned dog bowl and just turned it right way up, changing the signal before Tyrol got there.

But I do think Galactica is trying to have its cake and eat it by portraying suicide attacks as so far beyond the pale for both the cylons and most of the humans - particularly when a Dorrel model (the PR cylon guy) comitted a suicide attack during the first season. Of course, the writers would probably claim that it's different for cylons because it isn't really suicide for them... another sci-fi get out.

Interesting note - Zarek is vice-president - If he gets off planet with the rest of the colonials he will be the President which could be very interesting indeed.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
17:09 / 15.10.06
So Friday's episode felt a bit like the ever so slightly boring mid-plot episode that sets up a bunch of scenarios we'll probably see resolved next week.

I liked the resolution of the death squad scene -- not Boomer redirecting the centurions, but the Resistance. It left a few questions, though. Ie: Cally was running through the scrub last episode, and this time she's running across what looks like a field, and no-one from the New Caprica Police notices her? Clumsy continuity, people... And four resistance fighters versus a heap of centurions and the NCP doesn't seem credible, either -- we aren't told, but I assume the police officers all deserted once they realised that they were about to participate in mass killings. That's the only way it makes sense. (I bet it's one of the bits they had to cut. Why does this show always have too much plot for one episode? Why do we have to sit through more tear-jerky, gung-ho militaristic scenes of goodbyes on the Galactica, particularly Lee and the Admiral when we needed to be shown more on the planet?)

Ellen's been busted. Of course. And now Tigh has to decide what to do with her. He won't kill her. Sure, he may send suicide bombers off on missions and talk about how they're the destructo wreaking-havoc element, but he loves Ellen. He lost her once already. He also knows what an idiot she is, how oddly her sense of loyalty manifests itself, and how she always needs to feel like she's a player. He will understand, I think. I'm a bit worried that the rest of the resistance crew might demand to have her executed, but I figure Tigh will stare them down. With his patch. Plus, they're in the middle of an op. Saving the fleet is more important than dealing with the collaborators right now. That will happen once they've escaped, and it will be Adama's call. And Adama is more sane. I'm also loving this characterisation of Tigh. We already know he's such a bad leader, chronically bad. While in Season Two, this resulted in the emergency powers, and Roslin being put in jail, etc, here he's running suicide bombers. It fits, somehow. You can trust him always to make the most destructively potent, but strategically worst, decision.

I find myself admiring Grace Park more with every episode. Not only because she got to kneecap osmeone, but because Galactica Boomer (sorry, Sharon Agathon *puke* how this show's gender politics need work) has matured so beautifully over the course of the series. It's as if she's grown up. She's no longer angry with the world, hating that she's a Cylon. She has a serenity and a directness that she's won over time. On the other hand, Hera is alive! But Adama would never lie to her! I hope she can think strategically about that when she finds out the truth.

Amanda Plummer as a stoned Oracle with the munchies!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
18:03 / 15.10.06
It will be curious when the Cylon Homeworld story arc starts sometime this season... there was some wild snippets in that preview that showed some kind of Tron-ish world...

So maybe the Cylon 'homeworld' isn't a real place at all, but some vast Internet type thing covering a big part of the galaxy from which their collective will is transmitted to all Cylons- Centurions, Skin-jobs, even fighters and base-stars (since Skin-jobs have to 'transmit' their souls back to a ressurection ship which may be many light-years away they would need to be some kind of faster-than-light way of communicating). Didn't a resistence member mention 'Download City' as a Cylong afterlife before leaving Cavil to die? Remember how freaked he was that she'd say this?
 
 
Tom Coates
18:22 / 15.10.06
The thing I love about this first arc of the new series is how much of it is about one's relatinships with occupying forces. You've got Mr Gaeta who is hated by all despite the fact that he's actually leaking information to the resistance. You've got Baltar who started off as a total collaborator but who is gradually falling apart because of the actions he's being obviously forced to perform. You've got Jammer, who—from the webisodes—is working in the police force while no one around him knows, and who massively regrets getting involved but doesn't know how to get out, and—of course—you have Galactica Boomer, Caprica Six and Sharon all complicit with the humans one way or another. The whole structure of relationships around the place is being ripped to shreds. Tom Zarek is suddenly clearly a good guy, because when confronted with something huge and vast he falls clearly and overtly on the right side where less manipulative but also less confident men do not. I think we can expect to see some dramatic trial footage when we get off planet - some extraordinary anti-Baltar, Ellen, Gaeta and potentially Jammer stuff come out. They've set this up beautifully so that we can expect the divisions of the beginning of this season (half in space and half on the planet) to turn into divisions when they're even all together - people who have collaborated versus people who didn't, people who lost family in resistance attacks versus people who viewed collaborators as revolting scum.

This whole series has been great at destabilising obvious points of difference, humanising the most revolting of actions, showing confusion and nuance and humanity where a Stargate would just show simple black and white. Absolutely loving it, wouldn't want it to go any faster, while being simutaneously desperate to know what's going to happen. It's even making me forgive a few of the dodgy episodes towards the end of last season - even the one with Apollo and the prostitute - as being exploring a territory or experimenting before the real things comes along.

The only thing I can't be doing with is fat Apollo. It's just absurd. He looks like a ten year old. He doesn't look worn down or gone to seed. He just looks like Billy Bunter (ironically since he's probably no lardier than I am). Make his hair go to pot, give him bags under his eyes. Make his skin look a bit grey, and fatten him up a bit - that I'd get and go along with. But not this. That bit where he tried to look emotional on the ship as he left for the Pegasus. I just couldn't suspend disbelief.
 
 
sleazenation
19:21 / 15.10.06
This whole series has been great at destabilising obvious points of difference, humanising the most revolting of actions, showing confusion and nuance and humanity where a Stargate would just show simple black and white.

My snarky-head says I'd hope that Ronald D Moore and Co.'s aspirations for Battlestar Galactica slightly higher than just being better than Stargate...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:55 / 16.10.06
Back off snark boy!

I would hope that, if everyone gets off the planet and back into space then the whole issue of the 'collaborators' will be properly addressed. It will be interesting to contrast the actions of Tigh with that of Jammer, who have both been shown to be doing what they believe is best for the humans.

Did anyone else catch when it was mentioned that the human Cylons have deliberately inhibited the evolution of the old-school Cylons? I wonder if that will ever go anywhere.
 
 
Tom Coates
07:03 / 16.10.06
I missed that bit. Could you go into a bit more detail? When was this? Actually that's one of the areas that I'm not so sure that I like. The Cyclons are almost too much like humans now. There's not enough of a difference to give them uncanny valley qualities.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:26 / 16.10.06
It was Moustache Adama talking to Fat Adama. He was saying that Sharon told him that the Bulletheads were programmed to not be able to distinguish individual human copies from one another (so Sharon could give them orders on the planet)...he goes on to say they didn't want them to go to develop higher intelligence. He closes with a remark like "Isn't that ironic? They didn't want them to overthrow their human counterparts."
 
 
Disco is My Class War
14:13 / 16.10.06
Actually that's one of the areas that I'm not so sure that I like. The Cyclons are almost too much like humans now. There's not enough of a difference to give them uncanny valley qualities.

But isn't it more interesting to watch the effects of a method of mechanical/digital reproduction of 'subjectivity' that isn't at all like the modernist visions of shiny new robots with shiny new personalities all being happy and endlessly the same? Downloading has its uses, but it also means skinjob Cylons are weighed down by the burdens of memory, pain/loss, bad dreams, consequences, not to mention the messiness of sociality. And this facilitates their gradual individuation, to the extent that another skinjob can instantly tell which 'version' is which. (D'anna Biers spots Sharon Agathon a mile away -- but how, exactly?) The downloads get more and more painful and difficult, accoridng to Cavil. What's that doing to Leoben, then? Is it making him more of a psychopath with each new reincarnation? (This is something they've glossed over, unfortunately.) So, in some ways they are the same bodies and perhaps they begin the same, each model, from 'the box' -- but their experiences change them, and I think we're eant to understand that the Cylons themselves are as surprised and unprepared for this as we might be.

By the way, I thought Download City was merely a reference to some building or enclave outside or possibly in New Caprica City, with the baths full of foamy liquid. But I may have been totally wrong.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:49 / 16.10.06
Did Lucy Lawless spot Boomer a mile away, or did she see a Sharon model somewhere where she had no business, look into it, and get it right away that she was from Galactica?

When you figure in the prophetic dreams she had been having about Hera it could have been a hunch to go to where the keys were stored.

Dean Stockwell mentioned that resurrecting was starting to bother him more each time, I wonder if this is going to become important. Considering Leo said that Starbuck has killed him 5 times I wonder if he is hiding the fact that it DOES suck to get killed over and over.

There were a few moment where Kaley looked like she was smirking at Kara when her back was turned, is this just my distrust of children showing or did someone else see this? Mostly in the hospital after she woke up, when Kara put her head down I had Children of The Damned in mind.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:09 / 16.10.06
Dean Stockwell mentioned that resurrecting was starting to bother him more each time, I wonder if this is going to become important. Considering Leo said that Starbuck has killed him 5 times I wonder if he is hiding the fact that it DOES suck to get killed over and over.

I think this is going to be important, but my thinking is based on something AICN said. They've seen the 8 or so episodes, I believe. So I'm gonna put spoiler space here...it's not super spoiler, but some people may be purists....





SPOILER?









YOU DECIDE!











In AICN's blurb about this episode they say this:

The big news?
A Cavil this week offers the first hint of a new plot element that will play over the next several weeks a huge role in the series.


His comment that maybe it wasn't worth it....that might be leading to a new regard for human life sometime this season....
 
  

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