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Big Brother 2006

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:06 / 30.05.06
Sorry to get back to this, but Well, practically everyone makes some gesture at walking out at some point. If Dawn had been serious, they wouldn’t have bothered overplaying a ‘valid reason to eject her’, would they? You don’t *need* to eject someone if they’ve already made it clear they’re leaving.

kind of forgets that the message Dawn had arranged to receive was to tell her WHEN to walk out. She counts as a walker, in my book.
 
 
Ganesh
21:06 / 30.05.06
No probs, Cube. I don't actually have any sort of formal grounding in gender/sexual politics (although I've a little social psychology training). I suspect it's more that, as a non-heterosexual, I notice/flag certain things as "really het" rather than just "really normal". If one is outside the default assumption, it's not a default, and thus worthy of explicit comment.
 
 
Ganesh
21:13 / 30.05.06
... the message Dawn had arranged to receive was to tell her WHEN to walk out. She counts as a walker, in my book.

I agree that she was probably serious about walking, but I can see why Big Brother took the line of 'officially' chucking her out. Her coded system - or rather, her explanation of it to the other Housemates - did, I think, cause a fair amount of anxiety among the others regarding how their own families might be viewing them. I wonder whether her departure planted the seed that led to George bailing out.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:24 / 30.05.06
I seem to be in a minority here in that I really have very little time for Richard, finding him patronising in the extreme- but I'm starting to warm to him a bit over the last few days as most of the others prove themselves to be wankers.
 
 
Smoothly
21:30 / 30.05.06
Interestingly, he reckons that if he were up for nomination against anyone except Grace, he'd be kept in the House.

When in actual fact, the odds suggest that Grace is the only person (other than Lea) who he could survive nomination against.

kind of forgets that the message Dawn had arranged to receive was to tell her WHEN to walk out. She counts as a walker, in my book.

Yeah, arguably she would have gone of her own accord if she had learned what she did through some method that didn't trigger ejection whether she liked it or not.
But notice that she didn't demand her suitcase the moment she got the coded message. And if she'd resolved to go at that point, why the whispering and writing on hands with the other Housemates? Why continue to deny the code to Big Brother? Why bother with any of that?
We can guess, but it's impossible to be sure that she definitely would have walked had she not been forced out. And there was plenty of evidence that she was still undecided up to that point.
If 'I would have walked anyway' = walked, then practically every eviction ('I was ready to go, I wanted to go' etc) would count as a walking.
 
 
Ganesh
21:30 / 30.05.06
I'm really not seeing people's problem with Richard. For someone who's settled, probably reluctantly, into a parental role, I think he's coping okay. He's certainly been exceedingly patient with Nikki on the "is it a man or a woman" stuff re: Sam, and he's yet to succumb to the paranoid bitching that even Lisa's been pulled into (to the detriment, I think, of her tentative friends-maybe-more relationship with Pete). He's being supportive to Lea (who needs it at the moment) and pleasant with the new Housemates.
 
 
Lama glama
21:32 / 30.05.06
John, the exploding boy: Mikey though, I was pretty disgusted with Mikey when he refered to Sam as an 'it

Did he really? I was convinced that he asked Grace why she was referring to him as a she. I suppose that's still disrespectful of the gender that Sam wishes to identify as, but it's still an acknowledgement that Sam is a human. I think I would have noticed if Mikey had called her an "it," but please, I'm willing to be corrected on this matter, John.

I was a little more annoyed that Nikki was unable to comprehend that a person other than male/female heterosexual could exist. Her constant bemused questioning of Richard was appalling, but as we've already seen from her, hardly unexpected.

Pete has shot up in my esteems again with his defence of the White Queen and his acceptance of Sam. Richard's "Pete loves everybody" remark was quite interesting, eh?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:35 / 30.05.06
I think his exact words to her were: Why are you saying She when It's a He?

That's what I thought I heard at the time. Could be wrong.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:36 / 30.05.06
He's being supportive to Lea (who needs it at the moment) and pleasant with the new Housemates.

That's kind of why I'm reluctantly warming to him.

SW- yes, but the message she'd arranged in advance to be able to receive was telling her to leave. I'd say that gave a lot more weight to her "ooh I'm leaving" strop than anyone else's.

(Allegedly threatening to sue BB for "unlawful imprisonment" in not letting her leave when she originally wanted to kind of adds more points to the "walker" side of things, too).
 
 
Ganesh
21:36 / 30.05.06
I was a little more annoyed that Nikki was unable to comprehend that a person other than male/female heterosexual could exist. Her constant bemused questioning of Richard was appalling, but as we've already seen from her, hardly unexpected.

I think it was open curiosity; at least she had the grace (ho ho) to ask Richard rather than blurt it all out to Sam - and Richard did a fine job of clarifying the situation for her. I see Imogen's more subtle homophobia as more problematic than Nikki's honest ignorance of the greyer shades of trans.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:37 / 30.05.06
Richard deserves to let his parental role slip at some point in the near future and have some fun, although he'll find that very difficult (or more difficult than Lea might, let's say) with the complete lack of eligible males in the house. If any form of emotional Chernobyl akin to the aftermath of the Dance of Disrespect takes place, he'll certainly be obliged to take a similar role to Dan in '04. I'm sure it's galling to be continuously placed in loco parentis to a group of people who are after all adults.
 
 
Lama glama
21:39 / 30.05.06
Why are you saying She when It's a He?

Oh Vern, that won't do at all.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:42 / 30.05.06
I'm confused, having missed the first few days- who are we calling Vern? (This is why DS baffles me a lot of the time- everyone uses their own nicknames for people so you don't know who the fuck they're on about. At least here they're generally agreed on!)
 
 
Lama glama
21:44 / 30.05.06
Mikey be Vern.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:47 / 30.05.06
Mikey = Vernon Kay
 
 
Sniv
21:48 / 30.05.06
Yeah Xoc, that's the bit that I was referencing. Even if it's just an unconscious slip of the tongue, it still betrays a lack of sensitivity when talking about people that are different or odd to him. I think refering to people as 'it' is a fairly conscious descision anyhow, it's not something you'd usually call someone in your day-to-day life, and it's obvious to me that he was using the word distictly to 'other' Sam.

Although, much of my knowledge that I base my sexual-identity-politics views on are groped from what I can learn on Barbelith, which I'm fairly sure isn't the normal everyday reading for the country, cool as it is...
 
 
Lama glama
21:50 / 30.05.06
Mikey:

Vernon:

It's uncanny!
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:54 / 30.05.06
Mikey: Why are you saying She when It's a He?

I agree that the "it" is just sloppy language, as when one might answer the phone to a stranger's voice, and turn to the person asked for, saying, "It's a woman." However, that doesn't dispel the fact that there's some pretty nasty homo/transophobic sentiment brewing here.
 
 
Ganesh
21:56 / 30.05.06
If any form of emotional Chernobyl akin to the aftermath of the Dance of Disrespect takes place, he'll certainly be obliged to take a similar role to Dan in '04.

I don't see this as happening, or at least not in the same way. The legendary Dance of Disrespect sparked a meltdown because it challenged Spambo's assumed (and highly fragile) alpha Jungle Cat status while simultaneously tapping into his homosexual anxiety. This year, none of the male Housemates seem to have constructed their masculinity along those lines; they seem, generally, comfortable with more metrosexual male identities and much less prone to homopanic. The nearest thing to an alpha male is Sezer, and he's perhaps the most likely to get playful and flirty with Big Dick (that's one of the reasons I liked him).

Weirdly, I think that if a homopanic-themed spat blows up this year, it's going to come from one of the girls, probably Imogen - with Richard on trial, as it were:

"Do you have a problem with Richard?" rounded Sezer.

Shuffling, Imogen began: "I'm not giving you dirty looks. But some of your comments ... What I don't like is, when I see a joke go too far. When I see you jumping on Sezer. My parents watch this and I don't like it. If you were doing it with another gay man, then fine."

"But Sezer comes into this House and says he likes to kiss men," answered Richard. "My relationship with Sezer is a playful one. I find it hard to think you have an issue with that. But you won't put Sezer in his place when he makes comments about women."

The conversation between the three went back and forth. And back and forth. And back and forth."


Presumably Imogen's parents don't take issue with male-male shenanigans per se but with a gay man and a non-gay man getting physical - or perhaps with a gay man and Imogen's 'intended' getting physical.

I actually think Richard dealt with this situation very diplomatically too. It would've pissed the hell out of me.
 
 
Shrug
21:58 / 30.05.06
I suppose the greater test of his prejudice will find its basis in how he chooses to interact with Sam (if he chooses to interact at all). I don't know why I'm bothering to give Vern the benefit of the doubt, though. My first reaction (to his reaction) running parallel to your own, John.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:59 / 30.05.06
Ah, I understand! (Although I don't actually know who Vernon Kay is!)
 
 
Mourne Kransky
22:11 / 30.05.06
You're missing nothing then, Stoatie.
 
 
Ganesh
22:22 / 30.05.06
Watching the live feed, I'm getting ohno vibes from the ongoing Lisa/Pete saga - which had looked like Lisa managing the situation really skilfully by allowing Pete to do the just-friends thing and making it all into a kidding-around JOKE!1!! Unfortunately, there appears to be some fallout from this, and poor Lea is getting the blame for supposedly 'making an issue' out it by asking Lisa's permission every time she wants to hug Pete or spend time with him or whatever. Frankly, if Lisa had ordered someone out of my bed, I'd probably be careful about getting intimate with them again. Lisa's misdirecting her snark, I feel, and Pete's conflict-avoidance isn't helping. After the introduction of Sam and Aisleyne, I was impressed that Pete seemed able to take issue with Grace. He seems to be slipping back into a more passive role again, with Lisa, though.
 
 
Smoothly
22:28 / 30.05.06
I think it was open curiosity; at least she had the grace (ho ho) to ask Richard rather than blurt it all out to Sam - and Richard did a fine job of clarifying the situation for her.

I have to confess to sympathising with Nikki a bit at that point. I'm still a bit confused about Sam myself. She has said a number of times that she is a man, she says she's more commonly known as Samuel. Has she even asked to be referred to as her, or have the Housemates taken to doing that because she looks like a woman? The male pronouns on the website make me wonder how she referred to herself on paperwork, in pre-show interviews etc. Nadia was consistently given female pronouns, wasn't she?

So when Richard explained to Nikki that Sam 'was a man but now lives as a woman' I wondered if he knew this for sure. And I'm not sure he did a perfect job of clarifying the situation for Nikki. Explaining that he (as a gay man) didn't fancy Sam because he liked men (not, because he likes men *who live as men*) understandably confuzzled poor Nikki who had just been told that Sam was a man, and that 'man' was the very thing she was struggling to get her head around in the first place.
 
 
Ganesh
22:28 / 30.05.06
Aww, it all seems to be resolving now. Richard talked to Lisa about it then had a word with Lea, who's now gone out into the garden with Lisa and Pete, and they seem to have sorted things out, bless 'em. Richard's pretty good at the diplomatic shit.
 
 
Smoothly
22:34 / 30.05.06
Richard is really good at the diplomatic shit. But he's just good at the being a person shit. He's behaved pretty much unimpeachably, he's fantastic with Nikki, and he just makes me think that too many people like him work in bars and not enough in schools.
 
 
Ganesh
22:44 / 30.05.06
I have to confess to sympathising with Nikki a bit at that point. I'm still a bit confused about Sam myself. She has said a number of times that she is a man, she says she's more commonly known as Samuel. Has she even asked to be referred to as her, or have the Housemates taken to doing that because she looks like a woman? The male pronouns on the website make me wonder how she referred to herself on paperwork, in pre-show interviews etc. Nadia was consistently given female pronouns, wasn't she?

Yes, it is confusing, at least partly because there's some confusion on Sam's part about how she prefers to identify. According to Davina, she's said that she prefers female pronouns, but this is, as you say, at odds with her details on the official website. From what I gleaned from last night's live feed, she told Housemates they could use whatever pronouns they found most comfortable - but that most people used "she" and "her".

She's also said she's comfortable with the situation as it stands, and isn't thinking about surgery. The term "pre-op" wouldn't seem to apply in her case, then. I'm curious about whether she's on feminising hormones: I think she's someone who's either started on oestrogens/anti-androgens and the heat is off re: further physical modification, or she's going through a delayed adolescence. Her voice is only semi-broken, and she doesn't look like she needs to shave very often...

So when Richard explained to Nikki that Sam 'was a man but now lives as a woman' I wondered if he knew this for sure. And I'm not sure he did a perfect job of clarifying the situation for Nikki. Explaining that he (as a gay man) didn't fancy Sam because he liked men (not, because he likes men *who live as men*) understandably confuzzled poor Nikki who had just been told that Sam was a man, and that 'man' was the very thing she was struggling to get her head around in the first place.

I suppose I understood because I understand the difference between 'man' and 'male', etc. I think "was a man but now lives as a woman" was a reasonable assumption and, as it's so close to what Sam said in her audition tape (I think she said "I'm a guy - but I live as a woman"), I suspect he might have got it directly from her. Either that or Richard's assumed that she's a pre-op transsexual - which is, I think, not unreasonable, since pre-op transsexuals are commoner than individuals who identify as female but don't mind being called "he", and don't mind having a penis.

Yes, arguably a better way would've been to sit Nikki down and explain the difference between sex, gender and sexual orientation. That would've taken a fair amount of time and effort, and Sam's a rather confusing illustration (a gender-identification of female and a sexual orientation described as "gay" would appear to be at odds), so... all things considered, I don't think Richard did a bad job.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:53 / 30.05.06
[Richard] just makes me think that too many people like him work in bars and not enough in schools.

You couldn't pay them enough.
 
 
Smoothly
22:53 / 30.05.06
Yeah, I agree, he did a great job. Course he was going to simplify. I just sympathised with Nikki more than it seemed others (eg. Llama) did. Sam just isn't the perfect example for Trans 101. It's confusing stuff for anyone.
 
 
Triplets
22:54 / 30.05.06
re: Nikki and Richard. I think he did a fantastic Trans 101 for Nikki - get him to the Conversation!

Nikki came off as not transphobic, just transignorant. I can see someone like Nik not having very much contact (direct or friend-of-a-friend) with the transcommunity. The best we can hope for is treating Sam with the same level of tact she's treat everyone else with so far (!)
 
 
Triplets
22:55 / 30.05.06
Fuck, Stevely; you nicked my 101 pun!
 
 
Smoothly
22:57 / 30.05.06
And I just thought you typed fast.
 
 
Smoothly
23:00 / 30.05.06
Extra points for being the first to use my new name though.
 
 
Ganesh
23:01 / 30.05.06
I just sympathised with Nikki more than it seemed others (eg. Llama) did. Sam just isn't the perfect example for Trans 101. It's confusing stuff for anyone.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I'd much rather be faced with a Nikki asking stupid (or, in this case, not especially stupid - Sam is confusing) questions than an Imogen doing the old "some of my best friends" routine while making insinuations, or a Grace insisting "I'm a nice person" while comprehensively trashing me behind my back.

I also think Nikki's seen more of Selfawaria than she's been credited for.
 
 
Triplets
23:03 / 30.05.06
Steve(ly) I didn't use your name 1st - sort of - I'd combined Smoothly and Stevely in ma brane days ago. Spook!
 
  

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