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Grant Morrison's Batman

 
  

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TimCallahan
16:14 / 18.02.07
Okay, got it. Thanks.
 
 
TimCallahan
18:40 / 18.02.07
Because of the diverse reactions to Batman #663 around the internet, and my own thoughts as I read the book, I've written an essay about it over at my geniusboyfiremelon blog. Thanks to your help, I was able to add the details about "The Stalking," so I appreciate your assistance!

If you're interested: http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com
 
 
iamus
00:00 / 20.02.07
Does anyone know if Lovely Biscuits is still in print?

Lovely Biscuits is currently out of print, but watch this space.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:53 / 20.02.07
There is a "goddamn Batman" refernce in the new issue too; I guess it's Morrison's shout-out to Miller's hyper-Marv Bats over in All-Star Batman.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:41 / 20.02.07
That godamn Batman line actually made the issue for me. That little bit of goofy metatextual playfulness really offset the freakish, crazy darkness of the rest of the issue very nicely indeed.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:19 / 21.02.07
it'd be fun if Miller responded to that in ASSBATS, like a bat-battle of MCs!


... or not!
 
 
FinderWolf
00:26 / 23.02.07
Interview with artist John Van Fleet about the creation of the issue.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:41 / 28.02.07
Has anything been said yet about whether Morrison's Batman will be TPBed? I'll be bothered if I'm going to buy the comics but I can see myself getting the trades.
 
 
Evil Scientist
06:54 / 28.02.07
I would hope so as that's what I'm holding out for. Most of his work does go into collected form eventually (except, annoyingly enough, his marvellous JLA Classified story/prelude to 7 Soldiers).
 
 
Crestmere
07:31 / 28.02.07
Trade will come out. Its Grant Morrison, who almost always gets trades on Batman, a title with a lot of trades.

Honestly, I wasn't blown away by his first story arc. I mean it took 2 issues to get decent and 3 to get good.

Honestly, though, Grant was always more a big picture writer and a story arc writer. He sounds like he has some great ideas in the pipeline.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:34 / 28.02.07
IIRC, a trade's been announced of the first seven Grant issues... though based on the first three, this is easily the worst Morrison comic I've ever read. All the way from Zenith to nadir.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:43 / 02.03.07
I certainly enjoyed this issue, with its attempt to make some sense of the shifts in tone between camp Joker and New Homicidal Joker ~ maybe the same series of personality rebirths would have to apply to Batman, too, to make sense of the fact that he can be Adam West and Dark Knight (actually, DKR does begin with a rebirth) ~ and it did also manage to bridge continuity with Arkham Asylum's Joker psychology. Also cute to refer to Joker as the Thin White Duke, especially given the fact that DKR's Joker, in Arkham, was modelled on Bowie.

But how does this fascinating but still darkly violent model of Batman, albeit with added trance-states and hypnotic suggestion, follow on from the hairy love god Morrison was supposedly resurrecting for this series?

Also, I still wonder how Joker could ever really pose a match for the greatest martial artist on Earth ~ that's never been convincingly done for me. Joker isn't a fighter, so I don't see how he'd ever be a threat to Batman unarmed.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:45 / 02.03.07
One of the standout things about the issue, particularly in the scene where Batman interrogates the Joker, is that the characters have actual emotion on their faces.

Gee whiz. Actual emotions on characters' faces, in a comic book. This computer art really is something special.
 
 
Triplets
14:52 / 02.03.07
maybe the same series of personality rebirths would have to apply to Batman, too, to make sense of the fact that he can be Adam West and Dark Knight

Fantastic point, 'starr. Both of 'em are kick started by tragedy but where Batman tries to impose order on a horrid moment (via punching, leather gear and young boys) the Joker wants to expose how mad it all might be. What was Bruce's saving grace? Alfred? Childhood fantasy?

Why we couldn't have had 3 splash pages of him rebirthing into Marriage's Manbatman I'll never know.
 
 
This Sunday
19:12 / 02.03.07
Anybody else remember the 'Batman B&W' thing Otomo did? Rebirth of climax. 'I'm not Batman,' I believe it was.
 
 
PitrPatr
21:03 / 02.03.07
Also, I still wonder how Joker could ever really pose a match for the greatest martial artist on Earth ~ that's never been convincingly done for me. Joker isn't a fighter, so I don't see how he'd ever be a threat to Batman unarmed.

The way I've always understood this is that Batman operates in a very similar way to Wildstorm-Batman, a.k.a. Midnighter, in that a big part of his fighting ability comes from his dead-on predictions of what his opponent is going to do. The Joker, being completely insane, is completely unpredictable. He has no physical superiority over Batman, obviously, but Batman has to fight him blind, so to speak. I mean, most Batman-Joker standoffs usually still end with Batman slamming Joker into the ground anyway, but Joker does have an edge of sorts.

On a more general note, I did love #663, but at times I thought he was resting on his Arkham laurels a little bit. I guess they're sort of assuming that with the huge audience, most of the people reading this run haven't read Arkham, but for those of us who have, it felt a little like he was retreading old ground. That being said, I love Harley Quinn stories, and the last four pages of the book were pretty knock-out phenomenal. The red-black reveal, the portrayal of Batman's fear of "the one-man holocaust", the whole thing.

One thing: the Joker's line "why be an orphan boy when you can be a superhero"; does he know Batman's parents were killed when he was a boy? Is that something that's already in Batman continuity, or is Grant hinting at something new? Overall, I hope that this new superpersona continues to be used and explored in the rest of GM's run.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:33 / 02.03.07

The way I've always understood this is that Batman operates in a very similar way to Wildstorm-Batman, a.k.a. Midnighter, in that a big part of his fighting ability comes from his dead-on predictions of what his opponent is going to do. The Joker, being completely insane, is completely unpredictable.


I like that theory.
 
 
vajramukti
22:10 / 02.03.07
on some level, i always thought the reason the joker doesn't get shit kicked more easily is, for one he's a fucking psycho and doesn't care, and i know from experience it's hard to handle even small people when they're crazy.

and secondly, if it were some one like the joker, you'd be extra carefull and give him and extra wide berth cause you have no way of knowing if he's got some joker venom needle in his hand, or his pocket, or if he'll spit something in your face that'll make you laugh your intestines out etc...

it's not that joker is tough, just that you're scared to actually touch him, cause you never know what'll come out when you do. GM gives the impression that even his blood is somewhat toxic in this issue. why the fuck would you want to fight someone like that?
 
 
This Sunday
22:50 / 02.03.07
'Ichi the Killer' again, re: Jokerfight.

You get the feeling he'd kinda like to be hurt in a fight, sometimes. If it was Batman. So, Bats may break his arm and peel half the skin off a hand, but then he's got some giggling lunatic punching him with the bad hand just to get blood all over his face, while he's trying to bite through his inner thigh and put his pinky up behind Batman's eyeball.

It's easier to just smack around the Penguin or hold the Ventriloquist's boss over an open flame. And less traumatic.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:49 / 17.03.07
Get in.

J.H. Williams is on board for the Batmen of all nations arc.

Get RIGHT in. All The Way In

Of course, the chance of it coming out on time seem even more remote now.
 
 
Spaniel
17:41 / 17.03.07
Get in, indeed. Extreme excellence.

Now let's hope that Grant raises his game a bit
 
 
FinderWolf
02:28 / 19.03.07
Drool. I'm in!! Looking forward to it. Thanks for the update & preview image link...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:26 / 19.03.07
JHW III often posted here during his time drawing Promethea and maybe a bit just before his Seven Soliders work as well... maybe he'll visit Barbelith during this Batman arc. He was very gracious, as I recall...
 
 
Benny the Ball
15:03 / 19.03.07
I also thought his stuff on Desolution Jones was fantastic. I've been reading the English monthly reprints of the Batman stuff, and, the odd great moment aside ("You have a rocket?") it's not brilliant, but it is brilliantly enjoyable. It's great that it clashes with the ASB and R Miller stuff. Batman and Superman looks like fun though. The English re-prints really are great value at the moment - all three books in one for about £2.60 or something like that - or a cheeky read at WH Smiths!
 
 
Dicodisco
09:04 / 20.03.07


BATMAN: BATMAN AND SON HARDCOVER
Written by Grant Morrison
Art by Andy Kubert, John Van Fleet and Jesse Delperdang
Cover by Kubert & Delperdang
"Clever and colorful . . . Batman fans should be more than happy." - Variety
Comic-book legends Grant Morrison (ALL STAR SUPERMAN, SEVEN SOLDIERS) and Andy Kubert (Ultimate X-Men, 1602) join forces to bring you an unforgettable tale of the Dark Knight in this hardcover edition collecting BATMAN #655-658 and 663-666!
Batman receives the greatest shock of his life when he discovers that he may have a son. And sparks fly when the new addition to the Bat-family is introduced to Robin, the Boy Wonder. Which one will be chosen to carry on the legacy as Gotham's protector?
Advance-solicited; on sale August 8 o 200 pg, FC, $24.99 US
 
 
murphy
12:10 / 20.03.07
and it did also manage to bridge continuity with Arkham Asylum's Joker psychology.

And there was the nod to AA, when Joker sliced someone's thraot with a straight razor, the way ...um... that lady sliced... that other guy's throat, like in AA.

My favorite part, though, was the reference to the Aparo Bridge. Just a page or two before that I was thinking about how various creators have been immortalized by having bits of Gotham geography named after them, and wondered how long after a creator's death can he have a street in Gotham named for him.

And then Grant smiled upon the memory of Jim Aparo. And then I smiled, too. Nicely done.
 
 
Sniv
13:26 / 20.03.07
Y'know, I think Aparo already had his landmark years ago, during No Man's Land. I'm nowhere near my comics atm, but they had a few maps in the early NML issues and I'm sure there was an Aparo place (a park, a street? Who knows...) of some sort.
 
 
murphy
13:40 / 20.03.07
Oh. Well, it's nice, whoever first came up with it.
 
 
andrewdrilon
05:23 / 30.03.07
New issue out. Has anyone read it?
 
 
LDones
06:29 / 30.03.07
Yes. It's weird.

Not much else to say except that Morrison's run feels like it's been going on for ages and we're technically only in the fourth issue of a year-long storyline which is thus far much darker than I think he may have intended - which may or may not have something to do with Dan Didio's editorial megalomania.

Batman's internal monologue has gone from hilariously terse, distant, and abstract to Clown-At-Midnight style purple-as-a-plum.

I did like him telling a prostitute that he couldn't take a freebie because he was too busy. That was real Batman.
 
 
andrewdrilon
10:30 / 30.03.07
I liked the Bruce Wayne parts. He seems to be doing a distinctly good job of fleshing out Batman's civilian identity. There's a confidence in the way he plays Bruce that rings true and is so believable.

The main problem for me was the internal monologue of Batman, which struck me as pretty off, like a condensed, prettified version of Frank Miller's ASBR 'Marv' take. It comes off as contrived and forced. What's more bothersome to me is that the 'falseness' of those captions is just exacerbated in contrase to the Batman's interior monologue in GM's second issue of 'Batman and Son'. If I'm not mistaken, it was even lettered in a different font.

ALSO: I didn't appreciate the 'Looney Toons' staging of the fight, with the beast waving Batman around by his cape in a single panel, as well as the final shot with the huge indented bootprint on Batman's back. These shots in particular seemed inappropriately comedic in light of this scene's detective/noir build-up. They took me out of the story instead of engaging me, and made me think it was some demented parody of Frank Miller's unappetizing take.

GM's interviews state that he planned to portray Bruce Wayne/Batman as a more stable and centered character (I'm paraphrasing from memory,) but this issue in particular made me think of Bruce Wayne/Batman as creepily schizophrenic.

--

I have a theory, though, that the Batman we see in this issue actually isn't Bruce Wayne in the costume, given that we start off with Bruce Wayne in some snowy mountain vacation and quickly cut to Gotham City where the Batman appears. The timing given the geography is kinda off.

But with the Batman's martial arts, his obvious staple of batarangs and wire equipment, and the seeding of elements in previous issues, I'm hard-pressed to imagine who else might be in the costume and what his motivations may be.

If this can somehow be validated, perhaps my previous comments on this issue might not be that negative. Still, I only enjoyed the Bruce Wayne parts of this issue, which is less than half of the whole comic.
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:44 / 30.03.07
Over all enjoyable. Particularly the return of Jezebel Jett.

The BATAMN sequence had me wondering if that wasn't really a story of the Impostor Batman from the beginning of the arch. As the bullet to Joker's face was mentioned I could only wonder if that original impostor might have recovered and returned to the streets while Bruce is out in Europe.

It would sort of explain the difference in narrative monologue.

The timeline seems fast and loose as it is. Picking up after another NinjaManBAts tussel in Europe.

This BATAMN (whether he's the fake or the real one) is faced with a retread of the Knight Fall storyline. That BATMONSTER seemed to have echos both of BANE and of AZZ-bats.Plus an ending with a potential broken back.
 
 
penitentvandal
19:47 / 30.03.07
There's a confidence in the way he plays Bruce that rings true and is so believable.

This is of course because Bruce is basically Mason Lang, though, isn't it?
 
 
andrewdrilon
20:02 / 30.03.07
Hmmm. Now that I think about it, that makes a lot of sense.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:04 / 30.03.07
This was a little weird; with random hulking sort-of-Bane villain at the end, plus the font/narration change as noted previously in this thread. I hope Grant is going somewhere clear with this. The strange ending was really the only problem I had with it.

and yes, Bruce is Mason Lang and he is MUCH cooler than James Bond.

Interesting idea to have Bruce dating a woman whose parent (or at least her father) was murdered by criminals - since Bruce seems to attract many people whose parents were murdered, I guess it stands to reason that he'd attract a woman with a similar past as well.
 
  

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