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Underground > Comic Books >

Grant Morrison's Batman

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16:50 / 04.12.06

On topic, folks.

19:29 / 04.12.06

Oh for cryeye, dad.

20:41 / 04.12.06

More pertinently, and - oh, am I going to try and catch you on a technicality, yes I probably am - this thread isn't titled "John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake's 'Grotesk' arc which fills in for Grant Morrison's Batman for four issues" and frankly I see no harm in talking general Batman-ness while that goes on, if only to keep the thread ticking over.

Also, as I type, people are posting lovely pics of ponies in a Preacher thread, and while God knows I can't get enough animal pictures in my life (disclaimer: actually I can, unless it's a proper beast - i.e. tiger, rhino, elephant; go big or go home) I notice no comics moderator has taken the time to tell peeps therein to stay on topic. The discussion here (Batman in his many forms) is at least applicable to one word in the thread title, whereas the discussion there (ponies) is applicable to none. So.

21:44 / 04.12.06

ponies?

wicked.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:05 / 04.12.06

Falcs... they're casting suggestions.

22:09 / 04.12.06

OSTRANDER: Is this story darker, more macabre? Perhaps -- but all you have to do is read the newspapers to find the sources. Characters like Batman and Superman need to reflect the time they are IN to have resonance with their CURRENT audience. That's my goal here.

REAL CRIMES! REAL PONIES!

23:29 / 04.12.06

Neigh mair, I beg of you.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:27 / 05.12.06

Also, as I type, people are posting lovely pics of ponies in a Preacher thread, and while God knows I can't get enough animal pictures in my life (disclaimer: actually I can, unless it's a proper beast - i.e. tiger, rhino, elephant; go big or go home) I notice no comics moderator has taken the time to tell peeps therein to stay on topic.

That's true, and embarrassing, but you're taking the wrong lesson from it, Duncan. The lesson from both of these threads appears to be that even reading comics is a bit of a challenge to our poor members, and they must dive for the cooling waters of talking about films or television, which don't have those challenging assemblies of letters into words to cope with after the Iron Man challenge of the credits sequence.

I think there's a case for new comics moderators, since many of the current group do not appear to be active.

08:31 / 05.12.06

Hey, I'm well aware of what was going on in the Preacher thread, but as it had only gone to a couple of posts I decided not to intervene. I totally agree that this isn't the Ostrander Grotesk thread or the Batman in the nineties thread, and even though I think Ostrander's run is a little (just a little, mind) more relevant to the topic at hand than Batman cartoons and pictures of Bane doing the bad thing, I admit to being as guilty as anyone in derailing the conversation.
That said, some of the derailed stuff has been pretty interesting (particularly my own valuable contribution!) and well worth the bandwidth, so I'm left feeling pretty awkward as a mod: while this is still a thread about GM's Batman I'm duty bound to push it back towards ontopicness, however if people want to change this to an all purpose Bats thread, I'll be happy to alter the abstract and the title. I suppose the only thing to bear in mind is that a loss of focus can damage discussion.

What does everyone think?

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:44 / 05.12.06

I think talking about the Ostrander Batman is reasonable, as it has been inserted into a Morrison run on a Batman comic book, and has, arguably, implications for how that run goes and is perceived. There's even a practical argument that a warning for people who have pull lists might be appreciated. A lengthy diversion onto an animated TV cartoon which happens to involve Batman but is as far as I can tell otherwise unreltaed is, like the lengthy discussions about Preacher: the non-existent TV series - the discussion about the casting of which was being mocked, I think, by the ponies - off-topic, but more importantly just not very interesting.

09:13 / 05.12.06

Actually, yes, the TV series discussion has been very wrong forum - should've got to that one. I've been rather under it recently, at home and work, so perhaps my modding duties have suffered as a result.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:59 / 05.12.06

Well, not to rot the thread further, but I think we're all, as moderators, currently cautious about being too conspicuous, in part out of shell shock from all the times trying to get people back on topic has met with accusations of pedantry or facism, and then blow-outs inthread, and in part from a desire to let conversations develop organically and not to appear heavy-handed. Working out how much is too much is a real problem. Back in the day, for example, I might have asked people to stop discussing films based on the work of HP Lovecraft in the topic in Books, but to be honest the thread is probably just as killed whether the request is made or not.

10:20 / 05.12.06

Funnily enough I was just about to mention that...

As for Batman anf getting him back on target - I've not been getting any comics for some time now, but the impression I got reading around it was that this character in particular was one that was moving on very far from his grim and gritty 90's persona, and that GM's thing was all about finding a 70's vibe of 'chest-hair' Bruce. Is this true of all the books? Was the Ostrander a glitch?

Haus of Mystery

14:41 / 05.12.06

Re: overmoderation.

Is there not something to be said for allowing conversations to freewheel slightly? Talking about a Batman cartoon in a Batman thread seems reasonable.
I'm sure when another Grunt issue finally appears things will right themselves.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:11 / 05.12.06

Everyone has their own idea of "slightly", though. There's a common phrase or saying about mileages and variation that would be appropriate here, if I could just remember the damned thing...

Personally, I just feel for the people who are being denied their chances to talk about a Preacher TV series or the latest Batman cartoons in Film, TV and Theatre because of this.

16:54 / 05.12.06

I think this conversation has freewheeled a bit more than slightly. I count 22 posts of offtopica before I said anything.

I moved to change the thread title so tha tthe freewheeling can continue.

18:30 / 05.12.06

Personally, I just feel for the people who are being denied their chances to talk about a Preacher TV series or the latest Batman cartoons in Film, TV and Theatre because of this.

Yes, those poor people who can't find the new thread button or use the search function. I'm sure the tiny violins of the world play for them.

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:08 / 05.12.06

Be fair, Trips. You can't hoard _all_ the hopeless conversation in one forum. Just £5 buys a thread on who should play Doctor Manhattan in the film of the Watchmen. A direct debit of just £2 a month can keep a heated debate about whether Grant Morrison is a better writer than Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman in Books, by having somebody mention Lovely Biscuits, the novelisation of Neverwhere and Voice of the Fire every so often. Already, with our help, an exhaustive list of everybody in comics who has ever exhibited any of the superpowers on show in Heroes is being lovingly curated. A similar approach is being planned for the DVD release of Superman Returns (Supreme, Prime, Apollo, Hyperion, Majestic... the pain is real. The horror is real. But the hope... is also real).

But we need your help. Your commitment. Because somewhere, there is somebody with nothing in their utility belt...

But a dream.

14:48 / 06.12.06

the discussion there (ponies) is applicable to none

Ahem, casting ponies for Preacher was in response to Our Lady's criticism which I thought well founded. The post before. About ponies. My apologies, and also for this off topic post which has nothing to do with GM's Bats, I'll keep away from the comic forum in future so as not to rot the barrel of apples.

15:25 / 06.12.06

Rot or unrot? PM sent in any case, Quints, so after this please no more offtopic talk, and apologies for contributing to it.

15:26 / 06.12.06

Hey, I think you've added some good stuff to this forum so I'd rather you didn't.

We're still off topic, aren't we?

16:50 / 06.12.06

It just so happens I was re-reading the final 2 Morrison "Damien" issues and was going to post something about them, so maybe this will bring us back on-topic [and it would seem to me to be logical to put the posts about the new Batman animated series under the TV/Film thread for said cartoon; which I thought was pretty poor the 2 times I watched it by the way]...

I was the one who argued 'why not accept Talia's challenge to reform her; it would give a cool new dynamic to the book - the adventures of Batman & Talia! (...oh, and Robin every now and then), and Bats would finally get some [temporary of course] romantic happiness, some good character stuff could come out of that.' But now I am reminded that Talia's ultimatum was not just 'reform me' but '..and then our SON CAN RUUULLEE THE PLANET!!!! MWWWAAHH-HA HA HA HAAA!!!' So maybe it's a package deal - if you want to reform Talia, you have to accept that she thinks the end of the deal will be her eeeevil and twisted son ruling the planet. Not so cool.

Let's fast-forward the months so we get the first GM issue ASAP!

16:55 / 06.12.06

>> And quick question, why did he need Langstrom's help again? Why was that scene there?

Oh, this was presumably so Bats could say "Langstrom is working on an antidote to the Man-Bat serum now, Talia" or "Langstrom is working on a new anti-Ninja Man-Bat countermeasures, Talia" or whatever he said. When I first read it, however, I figured Grant would have Batman inject HIMSELF with the serum on a temporary basis so he would become a literal Bat-Man for a few pages, so he could equal the Ninja Man-Bats in size & strength. But no.

16:56 / 06.12.06

That would've been brilliant.

17:35 / 06.12.06

Batman's weird about drugs, sometimes. He's either refusing tylenol, or he's mainlining that Bane-creating venom stuff. And all the while trying to lift very big rocks.

Morrison always needs one 'my body is my temple' nigh straightedger, per series, though, doesn't he? It's right up there with 'tt' and 'hnh'.

18:40 / 06.12.06

let's not forget "Hh" ....

Jake, Colossus of Clout

20:16 / 06.12.06

And "Aaaauuuuuuuuu!"

The Natural Way

07:24 / 07.12.06

And the ever present, and rather annoying, 'Hah!'

12:22 / 07.12.06

Grant would have Batman inject HIMSELF with the serum

See, that's the sort of thing I want from Grant, Bats' inner dialogue as he simultaneously undergoes powerful hallucinations while having an aerial battle against the ninja manbats.

The Natural Way

12:53 / 07.12.06

Fucking hell. I think perhaps we need to be writing this comic. I'm imagining a splash page w/ Manbatman bursting out of his clothes, League of Assassins assassins sent flying by the transformation, complete with the caption 'Truly I have become the NIGHT!!', or something equally amazing.

13:11 / 07.12.06

That would be amazing. We should form a fan-fic community and challenge Morrison for the bat-crown.

Haus of Mystery

13:47 / 07.12.06

Then all back to the Batcave for a bit of grappling!

Who's with me?

14:10 / 07.12.06

Are you guys seriuos about the 'hnh', 'tt', 'Hh' and 'Hah'? I haven't read many comics lately, so my Morrison diet is restricted to A*S (boy, that asterisks just looks more filthy than "ASS" each time I use it) and occasionally Bats.

But I always thought the "hah!" in the times used in All Star were of a very conscious use between KentxSuper mannerisms (issue 2 where he roleplays Clark for Lois at dinner) and Ra as well (#3, not only the Clark-Sups feud, but the lighting, yellow lit-up and the proverbial answer-idea-inspiration light-bulb and other solar metaphors).

And those from Batman I presumed were very intentional (just GM's first issue alone has a million of them). Sounded like the old "annoyed acknowledging", like teenagers "talking" to parents or a old married couple's "rich" conversation. There were just too many in the issue to consider them unconscious quirks. I just can't remember the context from each one of them now.

-------

I read again 655 for the 1st time... I liked Kubert's art in that first issue, other than the first pages (but assumed the mess was supposed to be a dirty mock-climax of the previous grim-gritty, the dam bursting wildly). It was all very clean-cut straight to the point, that matched quite well in what I was liking in the plot (the BatsBond learning fun scenario, the "business and pleasure" motif). It had something of a loose Tintin-Phantom adventure, can't quite put my finger on.

And something weird that I remembered from when I first read it. When Damien points to the screen "that's my father", Bruce seems to be looking at the camera -- a type of cliffhanger that uses something I like very much in Morrison's works, the not mentioned out loud sort of detail. Seemed like on next issue's first page Bruce would be already doing or preparing something, or having a speech pattern that indicated that he was aware or something. Anything that entertained those who were "aboard" on that. But that didn't fulfilled itself. Bruce's eyes looking at the camera must have been something from Kubert going for some dramatic effect, or GM just dropped the whole thing.

14:40 / 07.12.06

I'd like to get back to topic and talk about Morrison's Bats, however, I might as well do as I do, and assure everyone why I should never be a moderator or censor-stick-holder, and just run with the offtopica magnifica.

I adore 'tt' but my heart and sole belong to 'woh.'

And, y'know, you've got to've read way too much of Morrison's work, possibly too many times, to notice that sort of thing.

Every writer's got tics, including ones based around dialogue. Claremont's 'a body' and 'focused totality of...' and all. Erik Larsen likes to write 'poop' if 'Savage Dragon' is anything to go by. Morrison's just tend to be gaspy, guttural or other sound-effects more than words/phrases.

The question is, did Bob Burden start 'Ut!' or did it pre-exist the carrot-headed guy?

And, let's face it, the stuff posted here is almost always more interesting as an alternate reality, while the published comics probably work best for the really real fictional universe. BARBELiTH is secretly the sinister urge of fanfic formation archon, after all.

The Natural Way

14:56 / 07.12.06

Shazam, Grant's comics have included the obligatory, smug 'Hah!' since, well, forever. Check out Zenith all phases if you don't believe me. 'AAAUUUU' is definitely a noise Grant likes, but not as much as 'IIIUUUUUUUIIIUUUU', perhaps because of its collapsing of self and other into one fun-sized sound.

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