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grant
20:45 / 31.05.06
I haven't been following this thread because I can't keep up with a weekly series, but I just got handed a Batwoman-is-a-lesbian folder (boring) then read the NY Times piece on the Chinese heroes.

* Mother of Champions seems really weird, given media conceptions about China-as-superpower and China-as-overpopulated ("They will overwhelm us with sheer numbers!" being a common undercurrent in the coverage)

* That's totally a Cypherman.
 
 
grant
20:46 / 31.05.06
Oh, and it's odd that Accomplished Perfect Physician is so... Tibetan. It'd make sense from a Chinese gov't perspective, since Tibet is, after all, an unruly province of China. I wonder if that comes up in the comics.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:56 / 01.06.06
On the one hand, my Superfriends-sense went off with Mother of Champions having the super-power of super-womanly-reproduction. But the idea's weird enough, I suppose. What are the constraints on her? Can she only have them every nine months?
 
 
LDones
01:36 / 01.06.06
25 super soldiers ever 3 days.

I don't know if there's a not-incredibly-fucked-up way to portray that.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:11 / 01.06.06
Mother of Champions could actually be used in some interesting ways; what exactly are the warriors that she births like? Insectoid mayfly war-men who last only until the next batch is born? It's also fairly intriguing to have a character with this power come from a nation with a longstanding One-Child Policy. Maybe if Warren Ellis ends up writing her that might come up, and we can only hope that Gail Simone gets a crack at her.

She's problemmatic because as a female character her female identity is foregrounded by the fact that her power is specifically reproductive; this is cool in that it appears she is asexual-like, parthenogenetic a la Cobweb. As a flipside, however, if a man showed up with this ability he would be equally decried for overruling the women and co-opting their reproductive capabilities. So Mother of Champions raises some intriguing questions but I'm not sure how likely we are to see them addressed, per se.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
08:53 / 01.06.06
if a man showed up with this ability he would be equally decried for overruling the women and co-opting their reproductive capabilities.

It's not exactly the same, I know, but doesn't Jaime Madrox have a 'reproductive' power?
 
 
Mario
10:40 / 01.06.06
It turns out that the character the Times thought was one of the Seven Brothers (the guy in the really plain jumpsuit) was actually one of MoC's super soldiers, at 25 years (physical age).
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
13:19 / 01.06.06
It's not exactly the same, I know, but doesn't Jaime Madrox have a 'reproductive' power?

I would argue that it's a replicating power and not a reproductive power per se. Jaime replicates himself and each copy is but an extension of himself. Mother of Champions gives birth to new beings.
 
 
Aertho
13:46 / 01.06.06
Except that being parthogenetically concieved, the DNA is only coming from one source.

Those "champions" are male, so where's the Y chrome coming from?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:01 / 01.06.06
From a wonderful world called the imagination.

JG Jones is such a great artist that I'm almost tempted to hop on board this thing. Almost.
 
 
Triplets
14:41 / 01.06.06
Insectoid mayfly war-men who last only until the next batch is born?

Wonder if they age a year for every hour (72 hours = 72 years old/average lifespan of a human bean).

Contestants, Bladerunner-replicants-going-rogue dance off! I want more life, mother/fucker!

Assuming it's the Chinese government that's engineered her... then they've built a woman to be permanently pregnant. That's a violation of human/women's rights I would like to see explored.
 
 
grant
14:56 / 01.06.06
Flyboy: Yeah, those pictures are great.

Mario: It turns out that the character the Times thought was one of the Seven Brothers (the guy in the really plain jumpsuit) was actually one of MoC's super soldiers,

Oh, that kind of depresses me. I loved the *plainness* of his look.

(Seven Chinese Brothers, BTW, was one of R.E.M.'s best albums before they got all stadium-friendly.)

I'm still freaked out by a depiction of an archetypal Chinese woman whose fucking superpower is the spawning of litters. I mean, it's obviously a great tool for getting at this whole common concept of what-Chineseness-is (in other words, it's naming a stereotype, making it easier to engage), but it's also freaky.
 
 
grant
15:15 / 01.06.06
Oh, and: Assuming it's the Chinese government that's engineered her... then they've built a woman to be permanently pregnant. That's a violation of human/women's rights I would like to see explored.

This is pretty odd in a different way. If she's some kind of engineered thing, historically speaking, she'd have to date back to early Mao - it was during the Great Leap Forward (late 50s, early 60s) that he had the drives to boost the birth rate. The One-Child Policy is, in part, mopping up part of that big mess.

Why I think this is odd is that one of the other character sketches had some note under it about the dude being a Red Guard "from the Cultural Revolution era" or some such.

Chinese history nutshell: Great Leap Forward (immense social engineering effort) ends in disaster (world's largest famine), Mao disgraced & semi-exiled. Cultural Revolution, Mao returns to power of the weight of, um, having written school textbooks and a few theater reviews. In other words, hearts and minds and mass-hysteria. Neither event is particularly current or even uncritically lauded in modern China.

So I'm wondering if these heroes are either literally stuck in the past (emerging from a time capsule?) or metaphorically representing eras of Chinese history.

Or if they're just bit players who'll appear in, like, five panels having a disagreement with Booster Gold and walking off in a huff.
 
 
Aertho
16:41 / 01.06.06
The Great Character Find of 2006
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
16:54 / 01.06.06
The blogger Cass' links cites Madrox as a male parallel to MOC. Great minds and all that eh?
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:53 / 01.06.06
Well, what I find interesting is that there seems to be some "back story" being inserted into the character designs. There's an implied History between The August General (who should be wielding a Kwan Do rather than a fork) and the Shaolin Robots (love 'em).

A name like "Celestial Archer" would be like 3 syllable in Mandarin. Same with many of this other names. In that sence I like that these translations are attempting to capture some of the differents in how China would view their "heroes" vs. America.

Consider also that China does have a long history of super-heoric tales. Outlaws of the March (the first justice league? or Society?) Journey to the West, and others, are basicly Chinese Super-Hero stories. Of course these Wu Xia have seen print in novel, TV, Film & comics so it would seem logical that the DCU would have this sort of thing going on in Asia.

Some of this history could be coming to the suface now as a part of 52's current events.

Doesn't Ghost Fox Killer have a sort of hip-hop sound to it... I wonder why.

Strong points on the Japanese Ninja/Samurai/sun power concepts.

Doesn't DC's Japan also have a water manipulating Tsunami character?

I also find myself thing of Teen Titan "Red Star" formally "Fire Star" who was the offical hero of the U.S.S.R. but never quite wore the flag.
 
 
Mario
18:10 / 01.06.06
Ghost Fox Killer = Ghost Face Killah (of the Wu Tang Clan?).

And Red Star was formerly Starfire. One guess why DC changed his name

Just for amusement... the correct design for the 7 Deadly Brothers:

 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:20 / 01.06.06
Tricks: I also find myself thing of Teen Titan "Red Star" formally "Fire Star" who was the offical hero of the U.S.S.R. but never quite wore the flag.

Yes, but Red Star had a costume based implicitly on the USSR's military colours, yes? The red & green? Which seems (oddly) more practical than Captain America's outfit.

The use of red & green and the star emblem is what managed to get him a sort-of-cameo in in an issue of Starman, from what I remember.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:05 / 02.06.06
I always liked DC's Red Star and his costume. Geoff Johns (squirm or cheer depending on your views) has the Teen Titans hanging out with him in an upcoming issue of TT...I'm looking forward to it.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:18 / 02.06.06
The only difference between A. and B. above is a slightly brighter yellow in the tunic, no?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:24 / 02.06.06
Never enter any high-stakes spot the difference competitions.
 
 
Aertho
14:39 / 02.06.06
I think maybe Finder is colorblind?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:56 / 02.06.06
I am a tiny bit, yes, but I always thought it was mostly between dark dark blue/black and dark dark greys and things like that. However, I do see that in B. the fellow's hair is colored in the larger pic and in A. it is not, and his green pants are brighter as well in pic B. So it's not that bad. Fear not for my eyes. I can still make out stoplights.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
15:02 / 02.06.06
His chest symbol and arm bands are red in the top picture, green in the bottom.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:07 / 02.06.06
ah I see it now...subtle, possibly because the bands are so small on my screen...but I dig.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
15:10 / 02.06.06
D'oh, I mean vice versa. Maybe I'm colour blind. And a facetious arsehole.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:57 / 02.06.06
Don't say that, Johnny. You're the only thing keeping me sane.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:52 / 02.06.06
New issue: Now we know why Alan Scott sports a Nick Fury eyepatch over in Checkmate.
 
 
Mario
19:22 / 02.06.06
My guess is that each Deadly Brother has different colored accents. Anyone know what that Chinese symbol means? (my guess is "seven" but I'd like to know for sure)
 
 
grant
21:15 / 02.06.06
It ain't "seven." And Chinese has different words for "brother" depending on if he's older or younger than you.

Characters are really hard to look up, but I'll give it a go.

Oh, and I just noticed something on the "Mother of Champions" design -- the "yellow for the life-giving Yangtze River" note on her costume? The Huang River (Yellow River) is a ways north of the Yangzi, I think.
 
 
The Falcon
21:23 / 02.06.06
Characters are really hard to look up, but I'll give it a go.

Strong truth. You really can't appreciate this fully unless you spend a bastard hour trying to decipher Aquaman and Goraiko's pilot's discussion in JLA: Classified #3 as I did. Unsuccesfully.
 
 
grant
21:28 / 02.06.06
It looks a little like a half of a "bi" (together), which is part of the character for "kun" (descendants), which is part of the character for "kunzhong" which is "brothers" (descendants in the middle). There's another word for younger brothers.

You can see a "bi" by going to "search" and putting it in the "pinyin" slot over here.

That's a kind of miserable guess, unless the other brothers make up the rest of kunzhong...
 
 
grant
21:31 / 02.06.06
It could also be a peculiarly stylized 'hua" (transform).
 
 
Mario
21:32 / 02.06.06
Um... I think it IS "seven".

http://www.fi.edu/fellows/fellow1/apr99/number/num7.html
 
 
grant
22:19 / 02.06.06
Fuck, you're right. Here's me with egg on my face.



I thought it was too close to 10 to be a number, and it didn't look like the finger sign.

(Um, to explain, here -- they mimic the characters.)
 
  

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