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52*

 
  

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Benny the Ball
17:36 / 28.05.06
Will she have cassettes inside her?
 
 
The Falcon
20:30 / 28.05.06
No, she can give birth to 25 'champions' every three hours. Soundwave, at best, could only eject - not give birth to - like, 8 cassettes. The same 8 (or so.)

I like Soundwave a lot, but if he was to fight Mo'C for a whole day, he, Ravage, Ratbat &c. would be up against it, facing down 200 top class fightin' dudes. She's also a bit like that general from New X-Men 2001, can't recall the name. But that was dandruff.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
11:58 / 29.05.06
Agh! I love the Mother of Champions idea, but WHY ON EARTH do superteams from other countries have to look like Epcot Village in Disney World? I mean, what's particularly American about Batman, Superman and the Elongated Man? They don't all wear the flag or dress as cowboys or Yankee soldiers.

Add to this the fact that if they're a government sponsored superteam the Chinese govt. is absolutely NOT going to dress these heroes like something out of an old Chinese comic book or movie. They'd be more likely to dress them like the Five Friendlies or something.



Does this drive anyone else crazy? It seems so parochial and hillbilly of American writers.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:18 / 29.05.06
that's an excellent point....Sunfire of the X-Men isn't dressed in a kimono or anything like that (I don't know if men even wear kimonos in that culture but you get my drift). He's in a superhero costume that reflects the flag of his country of origin (and the design of his costume doesn't hit you over the head, although it's clear that it's a Rising Sun motif).

And yeah, it would be nice to have heroes whose costumes *weren't* all about their flags as well.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:21 / 29.05.06
who drew those Great Ten designs? They're not on the Batwoman link...what link did these pics come from?
 
 
The Falcon
13:01 / 29.05.06
I found them on The Great Curve blog, iirc. If you use the stem url for each it's at another one, and I can't actually find the originals.

Don't really have a problem with characters wearing indigenous clothing and having origins relating to their own countries' mythology; it's not like they're all wearing red with a yellow star in the postage stamp area of their head or anything... looks a bit beyond the Global Guardians or that to these eyes.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
13:03 / 29.05.06
Does this drive anyone else crazy? It seems so parochial and hillbilly of American writers.
Isn't Grant Scottish Morrison writing this Chinese team?
 
 
The Falcon
13:03 / 29.05.06
I think the designs are either reworks by JG Jones of Grant's work, or Grant's own - there's some stylistic similarities to the 7S character designs anyhow.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:01 / 29.05.06
Finder: that's an excellent point....Sunfire of the X-Men isn't dressed in a kimono or anything like that (I don't know if men even wear kimonos in that culture but you get my drift). He's in a superhero costume that reflects the flag of his country of origin (and the design of his costume doesn't hit you over the head, although it's clear that it's a Rising Sun motif).

It would also, you know, occasionally be nice to see a Japanese hero who didn't have heat/solar powers. Even Doc Light II, who didn't have a flag-costume, had solar powers. The writer gets to the concept of the Rising Sun and can't get past it.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:38 / 29.05.06
I swear to God, Papers, I just got that.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:57 / 29.05.06
The Global Guardians even had a member named "Rising Sun."

I can't think of any non-solar Japanese heroes off the top of my head, but there must be one or two...right? Right?

Whatever happened to that Chinese team from eons ago? I remember they had a member named Jade Dragon and fought Alpha Flight once.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:37 / 29.05.06
Grant Morrison isn't AMERICAN?!?? Isn't everyone American?

You're right - thanks for reminding me. I should have said, "In American superhero comics."

And I swear to Odin, I just got the Rising Sun/Solar Power/Japanese thing, too. And it's so obvious! Truly I am a dolt.
 
 
Triplets
17:12 / 29.05.06
Does this drive anyone else crazy?

Well, not crazy, lest akira try to film me 24-7.

It bugs because one of the things I love about spandexfight is that they're a mish-mash of 3000 different things.

Look at the Avengers; a WWII soldier, an atomic monster from the id, a cybernetic werewolf, a Viking God and robot man.

If this was Bizarro Chinacentric-Comics they'd be "The U.S. Agents" with Billy the Kid, Paul Bunyan, Uncle Sam, Ol' John Henry and Clint Eastwood. Really would anyone- would... I would like to see that comic.
 
 
Aertho
17:16 / 29.05.06
Big Heat Sun powers are indigenous to ninja mutants with badditudes.

Duh.

As for the costuming:

American superteams reflect American ideals of indivuality and pride of all flavors —plus they're sometimes based on western myth, fashion, and contemporary culture.

Chinese would do the same, with a strictness, group-iness, and eastern bases. Who wants to cry "Celestial Archer! Bogey at 6'o'clock!" in a firefight? People for whom those words aren't so big or weird.

I can understand what you're saying, but I think there's a distinction (a good one!) between this China Force and other, less considered, "global" capes.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:51 / 29.05.06
I want a GM + JG The Great Ten series right now. Thank you.
 
 
This Sunday
18:05 / 29.05.06
There's no cowboy-costumed, Uncle Sam kitted, or even a Black Panther Party button to be seen anywhere in the Justice League or the Fantastic Four. But foreign heroes have to where their country's flag, or a something modified from last century's clothes. That's the American Comics Law, apparently.

And if you're from an Asian country, you have to have light/heat related powers. Not that Japan, say, hasn't done the same sort of thing in reverse. Cacti-Gundam, and all.

If you're actually from the US, but happen to be derived from that stock o' human that was here before whitefolk came along... you get to wear a feathered headdress or a breastplate, and say 'pale eyes' a lot. Or, you're Wyatt Wingfoot.

We've at least got past having to put 'Black' at the front of any black character's name. But really, let's look around a bit... Chinese comics have handled some superpowers, including fire-based ones, far better than a lot of American comics, simply by remembering that fire isn't just a visual, but y'know, hot and stuff. Fire shaped into giant scissors isn't going to cut, it's going to burn. Hotly.

Japanese comics have managed to take a variety of superpowers that have equivalents developed in the States, and handle them in different ways... without dressing them in seventeenth century clothes and having them speak of honor every three seconds. Look at the 'Jubei Ninpuchu' comic (or the movie), and how it handles the Kitty Pryde-style phasing. Or any number of characters, from Bolt Crank ('Eat-Man') to Goku ('Dragon Ball'), Lum ('Urusei Yatsura'), Strikeman ('You're Under Arrest'), or ninety-five percent of the characters managed in various CLAMP series. Then, look at a set of Japanese characters from Marvel or DC. Fireguy/Lightlass, the kid in big mech, the samurai, and the Oriental-deceit-lady with the slit dress and speech patterns like Yoda doing latenight bar pick-ups. And that's it.

I actually think that this Chinese team is a step up from the standard, but it's still a little...

Does anyone remember the 'foreign teams' from any Alex Ross future-story? That's offensive! Black Widow and Colossus? Because they're Russian, you understand. Big Buddha Guy Smash! I am Asian Defender because I wear a tao on my face! Nunchucks and braid and robe... and a freakin' tao on my face! Can you not see? And I think that was actually supposed to be a white guy, anyway.

Which, is not to say, that these types cannot be utilized. But do something with it, something useful or new or interesting.

If you have to have the Silver Samurai, play him as his spiritual brother, Tatewaki Kuno, from 'Ranma 1/2' and let him shine. The man's got obvious brain damage, is clearly behind the times, reactionary, and... I mean, look at when he stabbed up Hank McCoy! Delusional and pompous don't begin... and everybody seems to steer clear of that angle, and yet, clearly, cannot make him a sensible, practical person, either. Last year's Shadowcat mini did manage to come pretty close, though.

If you have to use Batroc... Batroc's a dope all on his own, not because he's French. He's a dope because he obviously has the skill and potency to be a badass... and yet, isn't.

If you have to use Wyatt Wingfoot... never put him in that stupid wooden helmet like Alex Ross. Racist, stereotypical, offensive bullshit, that was. 'I am an Indian, why haven't I got a wooden eagle head to wear? I am so ashamed and must go shopping for it, right now!'

This is why those designs above-thread, aren't that bad. The scale's really loaded.
 
 
Mario
18:21 / 29.05.06
I don't really have a problem with heroes based on Chinese myth or culture. After all, there's a whole slew of "patriotic" heroes, and that's not counting Captain America variants for other countries. Hell, DC just revived the "Force of July", and Uncle Sam returning soon.

And yes, Mother of Champions is pretty weird, but it would not surprise me if she's from Chinese myth. I'm pretty sure Celestial Archer is the one who shot down 9 of the 10 suns (long story)
 
 
Spaniel
19:03 / 29.05.06
Personally I'm really digging the kung-fu/pseudo-mythological names.

Ghost Fox Killer
Accomplished Perfect Physician
Mother of Champions


Yes please. Thank you, sir.

Oh, and Shaolin robots? Yep
 
 
Spaniel
19:07 / 29.05.06
I think, also, when considering racial stereotyping, or dumb American approaches to foreign cultures, we should also consider the narrative context. These guys are a patriotic government controlled super team. To my mind it makes a degree of sense that they'd tie into populist cultural notions.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
20:15 / 29.05.06
I think what China would want to emphasize in a Chinese, government sponsored superteam would be the politics that came out of the modern era which is derived from the struggle to Achieve the Four Modernizations: modernization of science, industry, agriculture and defence. They wouldn't want to reference pre-Communist legends unless they were repurposed.

The heroes would have correct ideas, correct habits, and live correctly setting an example for the Chinese people as the ultimate fruition of the Communist ideal. Dare to think, dare to act - an enduring slogan of the Great Leap Forward - would be their motto and they would want to show China as a progressive, healthy, modern country.
 
 
Spaniel
20:23 / 29.05.06
Oh, I'm not trying to suggest that Morrison's team couldn't be a little more in keeping with modern Chinese ideals.

Although it is worth bearing in mind that Chinese myths are still very much part of Chinese popular culture. We should also remember that Morrison wants archetypes that Westerners can easily plug into, this being aimed at a Western audience, afterall.
 
 
Crestmere
08:37 / 30.05.06
I thought the Asian characters were awesome. I didn't even read the article, I saw it on Talk@ and it just screamed to me within 10 seconds of seeing it that Morrison created them.

I think it'll be really cool.

But I do understand the protectionism that some people have about it.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
15:45 / 30.05.06
Argh! I invented the name Thundermind! I have witnesses!
 
 
FinderWolf
20:07 / 30.05.06
someone on Newsarama posted that he or she had heard of the old Chinese folk tale/myth taht may have inspired the 7 Brothers (the relevant portions of the post follow):

>> I think of the old tale the 5 (or sometimes 7) chinese brothers...any one rememeber that tale? Each brother had a different power.

In the 7 brothers version the powers were:

Super Strength
Bones that won't bend (except when he moved of course).
buckle or break
Super Sight
Super Hearing
Extendible Legs (or Limbs I'm not sure)
Fireproof
Tears that become rivers (each one at that)
 
 
Mario
21:01 / 30.05.06
I remember a similar tale, with 5 brothers.

One of the brothers was capable of drinking the ocean.
Another has a neck of iron.
The third can stretch his legs.
The next was fireproof.
The last could hold his breath indefinitely.

However, the name Seven Deadly Brothers reminds me most of old HK action films, like Five Deadly Venoms, or Lucky Stars
 
 
The Falcon
22:41 / 30.05.06
Weird.

Hello



Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch's Ultimate Crimson Dynamo (love yr new a.e., mind you)

and

oh



it's you, Mark Millar and JG Jones', The Killer.

August General looks, I'm fairly sure, like something out've Wanted too. Strange; I definitely like them a lot, and in many ways when Ben posted that 52 cover (#9/10, whatever) that was the absolute dealbreaker for my pound$$$, but those two (three?) look a fuckload like MM characters.
 
 
The Falcon
22:43 / 30.05.06
Bad form, nobody posting the link, there.
 
 
Mario
22:51 / 30.05.06
I still think Immortal Man in Darkness looks like a Cypherman.
 
 
Triplets
23:01 / 30.05.06
Nah, he looks like he hunts down Xoo smugglers.

Wished Moz reinvented Xorn for the Deecie-U. Comics need more guys with scary robot heads.
 
 
Mario
00:00 / 31.05.06
Thundermind might be Xornish....
 
 
FinderWolf
00:20 / 31.05.06
Cypherman all the way, baby!!!
 
 
FinderWolf
00:36 / 31.05.06
Possible spoiler:



this may have been some weird plant in Newsaram's message board, or someone with advance knowledge of upcoming 52 stuff writing and not realizing that what they were writing was ahead of publishing schedule...

more spoiler space...

...but someone wrote "Does the missing 52 seconds from the year have anything to do with such-and-such?"

So apparently there will be a plot point of 52 seconds missing from the year that is ONE YEAR BEFORE ONE YEAR LATER!!!!. Rip Hunter and the Linear Man to the red courtesy phone, please... add this to the Dominator's "Rememmber the fffiffffdddyyy teeewwwooo" in Legion of SH and we've got several meanings for our lovely number (the cheesiest of which of course is Montoya's local bar being called '52 Pick-Up').
 
 
smurph
04:25 / 31.05.06
The missing 52 seconds are referenced in one of T.O.Morrow's clipings in issue 2. Their theft is attributed to Doctor Tyme, who the article reports is now missing.

According to a very brief bit of googling, Doctor Tyme aparently appeared once in a 1964 issue of Doom Patrol, where he had the ability to "control time at various speeds" and/or a "suspension ray".
 
 
FinderWolf
16:55 / 31.05.06
No relation to Father Time, who's busy getting ready to morph into a baby for 2007. Then he becomes a 5-dimensional hypersquid. Thank you folks, I'm here all week.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:20 / 31.05.06
and thanks, smurph, I hadn't given my 52 #s 2 and 3 a good solid thorough read yet, so I appreciate the filling in of that detail.
 
  

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