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18:43 / 02.08.06

.. and hey, my posts have incredibly bad grammar! Criticise that, smartarse!

18:47 / 02.08.06

No more furry pictures, for the sake of all any of you hold holy.

18:53 / 02.08.06

33 doesn't sign his posts? Are you sure?

Hate is probably a little strong, and you do have a point, I wouldn't want to discourage people from posting either, but I can't help but think it's a bizarre, distracting habit* that seems to stem from rather wrong-headed ideas about how individualism is best cultivated on message boards.

*It seems to me that signing your name has far more to do with (mindless) Internet customs than not signing you name

19:06 / 02.08.06

Honestly I found EmberLeo's posts in the Temple very hard to read because of the sig thing and I'm interest in having meaningful dialogue with hir. I was hoping that the extra over the topness in this thread would illustrate why it is causing me to grit my teeth every time I see those sigs and so preventing me from engaging more fully. Also it was cathartic.

Is it my problem? Why yes and I've also learned not to pick at my nails at the dinner table, which I learned not to do because of someone's annoyance. You know what? I think other people appreciate me not doing it either.

(is it me or am I unusually cranky?)

19:13 / 02.08.06

33 doesn't sign his posts? Are you sure?

No, but you get my point. Ember's post in The Temple seem pretty cool so far, so it'd be a good thing if she wanted to stay posting, IMO.

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:15 / 02.08.06

Actually, 33 does sign his posts. He started, I believe, by signing them 33, then as his trust in us grew he started using his real name, arrr.

Anyhoo. Joking aside, the main reason I don't tend to like sigs is ... well partly it's some variation on xk's reason. Partly it's the silliness of the "left and down" positioning of the name. Also, however, I think it's the disregard for how the board is intended to work. Boards which feel that their performance would be enhanced by sigs or avatars have code built in that facilitates sigs and avatars. Barbelith is designed to pare that down - no flashing text, only a few smileys, no avatars and no sigs. Insisting on manually adding one every time just seems antisocial and counterproductive - like not taking your coat off in a host's house, even though the central heating is making it toasty.

However, unless we _do_ make a rule, it is the role of those who wish to add sigs to add sigs, and the role of those who are discommodated by it to take the piss, world without end.

19:30 / 02.08.06

I don't like sigs, mostly because I've seen

Boboss

's first post in the barbannoy thread so many times I've sublimated it and now believe it's my own. It's so obviously a hallmark of twattier boards.
On the other hand, I used to like smileys. Now I loathe them :C unless they're novelish :-] despite them being coded for on the board.

--Muntaq, Quantum's evil twin!1!--

"I long ago learnt not to wrestle with pigs. You get covered in shit and besides, the pig likes it"

19:30 / 02.08.06

... and I wouldn't want to discourage new people who may have interesting things to say from posting because of pissy board etiquette.

I find it hard to believe that posters would be discouraged from doing so because they weren't allowed to sign their names. It doesn't especially bother me*, but I could surely live without ever seeing Boboss, in particular, telling people that it's not necessary or liked here again.

*I mean, it is really stupid if you have a username to the left and sign it at the bottom again, and people who type in their own annoyingly homilising little sigs every post frustrate even more, though I've not seen that for a while, but still. Say a no sigs edict then?

19:33 / 02.08.06

Fascist pig, I'll sig as much as I like it's free internet!

--Muntaq, Quantum's evil twin!1!--

"I long ago learnt not to wrestle with pigs. You get covered in shit and besides, the pig likes it"

19:35 / 02.08.06

But I can see why it might get annoying.

--Muntaq, Quantum's evil twin!1!--

"I long ago learnt not to wrestle with pigs. You get covered in shit and besides, the pig likes it"

19:39 / 02.08.06

...if you did it too much...

--Muntaq, Quantum's evil twin!1!--

"I long ago learnt not to wrestle with pigs. You get covered in shit and besides, the pig likes it"

19:41 / 02.08.06

LOL

Duncan, it's my job. How can I have a hard-working-family if I don't do my job?

Hard. Working. Family.

Tryphena Absent

20:38 / 02.08.06

I dunno, if someone was like well rude to me because I signified I'd probably fuck right off.

__________________________________

"A lover without indiscretion is no lover at all"

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:40 / 02.08.06

Dude, Thomas Hardy looks like the lovechild of von Mises and George Galloway.

Regrettable Juvenilia

22:07 / 02.08.06

Surely a sig is a basic unit of an internet (a given internet at a given time). Every internet is a complete system of sigs. Parole (the speech of an individual) is an external manifestation of internet. A bulletin board is a series of differences of sigs combined with a series of differences of ideas. These cannot be conceptualized as separate entities but rather as a mapping from significant differences in sigs to potential (correct) differential denotation, LOL. The sig exists only at the level of the synchronic system, in which sigs are defined by their relative and hierarchical privileges of co-occurrence.

______________________________________________________---

"I'm not sure of what I see,
Cupid don't fuck with me!
Are you telling me this is a sig?"

22:11 / 02.08.06

That beard looks like that cute or squish it? fur bug. Maybe he stuck the critter on his upper lip, so it could clean away the remains of his last supper?
____________________________________________________________

Zum Augenblicke dürft´ ich sagen: Verweile doch, Du bist so schön!

22:16 / 02.08.06

Surely a sig is a basic unit of an internet (a given internet at a given time). Every internet is a complete system of sigs. Parole (the speech of an individual) is an external manifestation of internet. A bulletin board is a series of differences of sigs combined with a series of differences of ideas. These cannot be conceptualized as separate entities but rather as a mapping from significant differences in sigs to potential (correct) differential denotation, LOL. The sig exists only at the level of the synchronic system, in which sigs are defined by their relative and hierarchical privileges of co-occurrence.

Essentially yes, but what I'm saying is: 'Move sig, move sig, take off every sig.' Then what happens?
___________________________________________

"Ah'm Rogue, y'all" - Rogue

Tryphena Absent

22:22 / 02.08.06

Flyboy, I follow your conceptualisation of the cigg up to this point-

These cannot be conceptualized as separate entities but rather as a mapping from significant differences in sigs to potential (correct) differential denotation, LOL.

Your system seems flawed to me. Surely the nature of the cigg is such that the two separate entities combine at the point of communication (fire)?

__________________________________

"Oh Thomas my cousin, your moustache is looking so dapper today"

22:47 / 02.08.06

I hate sigs. Hate, hate, hate. They immediately up the signal-to-noise ratio of any post.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:25 / 03.08.06

Not very keen on sigs, but I like Ember's posts so far, I think ze's making a good contribution to the board.

11:43 / 03.08.06

..and for you Evil:

Damn those street artists! I'm trying to blow up the Eiffel Tower and they insist on trying to sell me their sketches.

S'a good likeness though.

11:53 / 03.08.06

@flyboy These cannot be conceptualized as separate entities but rather as a mapping from significant differences in sigs to potential (correct) differential denotation, LOL.

Yeah: e.g., in order to illustrate the state of the suit at the time of posting? Especially since the way Barbelith works the name of the suit might well have changed since the post was written.

@tryphenaYour system seems flawed to me. Surely the nature of the cigg is such that the two separate entities combine at the point of communication (fire)?

No, I think that's just a barking pun. Though as you might by now expect, the kind of projections I experience are fairly thoroughly reflexive LOL!!1!&etc.

____________________________________________

Grace Hopper

Grace Hopper

Nobody sees a flower - really - ... Georgia O'Keefe

12:37 / 03.08.06

Not very keen on sigs, but I like Ember's posts so far, I think ze's making a good contribution to the board.

I agree and am sorry if my snark over the sig has truly caused a good addition to feel unwelcome. I've gotten enough sleep now and my tolerance levels are back up to normal.

12:47 / 03.08.06

I don't want to you to feel unwelcome either Ember! I just want you (and others) to stop signing your posts.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:18 / 03.08.06

I find sigs irritating. Not irritating enough to actually make me angry, but yes, a little vexed.

The thing that DOES drive me crazy is trying to figure out why. It's unecessary, and surely it's more effort?

And when reading a long thread, it can really break up the discussion.

5t04t13

"You know I'm born to lose
And gambling's for fools
But that's the way I like it, baby,
I don't wanna live forever"

23:14 / 03.08.06

Well, let me put it this way:

I am literally in the habit (reflex, at this point) of signing everything I write. Everything. Sometimes I fuck up and sign my frelling homework, for goodness sakes. I had a specific reason for why I started beyond "hey, cool!", but it's lost in the mists of antiquity at this point, since it's a habit I developed some... 10 years ago?

If it matters to you that much, and you're nice to me, perhaps I'd have a reason to try not to do it. More likely I'd sign my posts, and when I remembered, go back before I hit "post reply" and take the signature off.

But if you're hostile about 1 line, 9 characters, with no particularly offensive content (or do you really find my name offensive?) at the end of my posts, why would I want to stay? I have no reason to believe you'd have any respect for anything else I'd say, eh?

*carefully doesn't sign*

23:17 / 03.08.06

(Pardon me for the double post)

I don't think it makes much sense to consider me antisocial just because I dissagree with the significance of my signature at the end of my posts. Is it antisocial in general to not constantly adjust every little thing I do when I encounter somebody who has a difference in perspective?

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:39 / 03.08.06

Personally, I care more about being able to read and understand what members are saying (i.e. good English) than whether small aesthetic idiosyncrasies are present in their posting style. However, sig's can be rather jarring. I also used them when I joined Barbelith, because I wasn't used to interweb message boards and was stuck in a kind of letter writing mode.

As for the anti-social thing, I suppose it's about the society you're in at any time. e.g. certain gestures are offensive in some countries and not so much in others, so one might adapt accordingly so as not to offend or annoy or get beaten up. Not that Barbelith's a country, but it is a kind of society, and of course one shouldn't necesarilly change one's opinions when in different societies. It's just an etiquette thing, really, and a lack of sig's does help the reading flow.

But don't let the ribbing put you off the place. From the posts above, it seems people also value your contributions in Temple (a forum I rarely read, so..), and you're easy to read and seem pleasant enough, in my humble opinion.

Oh, and welcome to Barbelith.

23:49 / 03.08.06

Don't take it too personally, EmberLeo. You've just weathered the gauntlet that all signers have to deal with upon entering our Hallowed Halls. You made it with style and aplomb, you kept your cool, and most importantly you comnfomed. Conform, sheeple!

Oh God, I did it again, didn't I? I'm so sorry, they say the medication is supposed to help...

Ahem.

Anyhoo, welcome. Refreshments are served whenever the Late Shift bobs to the top of the Convo. Come on in and help yourself. Last I checked, they had plinths.

23:55 / 03.08.06

The thing is, there's a limit to how much I accept being required to superficially conform to a group I just met, and there's an even smaller limit to the abuse I'm willing to accept for my mistakes.

Even if I do accept the need to conform to this particular (arbitrary) standard of interaction, what happens when, at some point in the future, I forget to remove my signature before I hit "Post Reply"?

00:03 / 04.08.06

Asscandling.

paranoidwriter waves hello

00:04 / 04.08.06

I imagine it would depend on the occasion, who's around, what mood they're in, whether it's the third post in a row you've used with a sig, etc. I'd like to think the odd slip wouldn't be met with snarkiness, but just as you might slip someone else might slip (in their own way) and be rude in reply. I reckon after a while you'll get used to it, especially now you've had this discussion. Plus, you can always "edit post" should you decide to remove a sig once you've posted.

Seriously, I wouldn't take all this as some kind of sign that you can't trust the people around here to be nice and/or reasonable. After all, you've had a few varying types of responses in this thread, non?

paranoidwriter waves hello

00:05 / 04.08.06

My last post was a reply to EmberLeo, obviously...

00:25 / 04.08.06

Well, I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater, in any case. I can't say I've enjoyed this conversation overall, and I honestly don't understand how 9 characters at the end of my post could possibly render the rest of my post unreadable, but the Temple alone is interesting enough so far for me to at least give you folks the benefit of a doubt.

Most of what I wanted to get across in responding to the barb at all seems to be understood by at least some of you - that poking at the newbies, though a long and "grand" tradition of groups everywhere, is not the best way to make them feel welcome.

00:34 / 04.08.06

(again, sorry for the double post)

I keep meaning to say, and keep forgetting to say: I'm female. You're welcome to call me "she" or "her". I'm even okay with "woman", "lady" and even "girl". Hell, I don't take offense to "wench". I must say, the casual use of "twat" is something I'm going to have to adjust to, though.

(Gah! This not-signing is hard!)

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