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Barbannoy

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:03 / 23.10.06

OK, a tennis player DOESN'T write.

Must have knackered his arm somehow.

13:04 / 23.10.06

Engish reserve forbids you to say nice things about other people?!

13:05 / 23.10.06

Tsk, the tennis player has an alternative method of typing not available to the poor brewer.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:09 / 23.10.06

Not all brewers are poor, you know. I resent these crass generalisations. Samuel Smith has a team of thirty trained monkeys blowing cocaine up his arse through fifty pound notes twenty-four hours a day. Allegedly.

Writes the brewer.

13:09 / 23.10.06

Sorry, cross post.
I don’t want to speak for Boboss, but I think it’s the fawning catalogue of fulsome flattery that piques a particular kind of emotional reserve. It makes a little bit of sick come into my mouth too.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:11 / 23.10.06

Perhaps the brewer could buy the tennis player a special typewriter with elbow support?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:13 / 23.10.06

A brewer (probably the same one) writes:

While it is true that not all brewers are poor, or indeed flaccid, many of us (not all, mind you) are tight bastards, and have a longstanding antipathy towards tennis players, so... probably not gonna happen.

Love

A brewer (probably the same one).

13:13 / 23.10.06

If people want to say nice things about each other using similies, well excellent! lula

See, for a moment I thought you wrote 'smileys' :-) and I was going to vigorously protest because they annoy me, but similies is fine.

13:19 / 23.10.06

Engish reserve forbids you to say nice things about other people!?

Indeed. You would be amazed.

13:25 / 23.10.06

I think there is a difference between English reserve and shyness. English reserve is not talking loudly on trains. I have this. Shyness restricts you from saying nice things about people. I don't have this.

Susan, do you really, truly think you would be saying that if someone had written something nice about you? Because I don't. I think you would be secretly flattered, as would Bobossboy. People generally tend to bitch about those threads when they don't see their name. If someone had got in there before you or Boboss had said anything and had added your name to the similies list then neither he, nor you would have said you disliked it. That's what I think.

Of course, that's impossible to prove so feel free to refute it!

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:33 / 23.10.06

I'm feeling for Miss Wonderstarr here, personally.

13:40 / 23.10.06

I can’t refute it, Lula. Perhaps you could say something heartfelt and lovely about me in that thread (has anyone had ‘caring’ yet?), and I’ll report back and tell you how it makes me feel.

Again, I can’t speak for Boboss, but personally, I find a thread dedicated to people telling eachother how wonderful they are a bit Oprah and a bit sick-making. I associate this is a traditionally English sense of modesty and decorum, and a resistance to conspicuous emoting. I don’t object to that thread, but personally I find it a bit cloying.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:46 / 23.10.06

I'm not saying one _should_, but is there any prohibition in there, really, about the sharing of similes that are offensive, pejorative or downright ugly?

13:47 / 23.10.06

Dunno, but me and Boboss will probably find out shortly.

13:52 / 23.10.06

People generally tend to bitch about those threads when they don't see their name.

horrible and sexist, etc.

different context, sure.
the concept of 'bitching' isnt entirely divorced from the nastiness of calling a woman who displeases you a bitch, though.

moving past that point...
i dont agree,
i presume it may be easier to frame people's distaste with a mutual-love-fest as jealousy, but it feels patronising and is unhelpful to do so.
i don't enjoy the gush and, even if you wrote nice shit about me there, i don't think i would change that opinion.

sorry to be so critical all in a one, but i dont feel comfortable not pulling you up.

miss wonderstarr

14:49 / 23.10.06

I'm even being ignored on Barbannoy, let alone being left out of the simile-gush! Anyway I'm quite happy to admit that I only check Barbecrush and Barbequote threads to see if anyone's loving me up... but there seems a bit more discrimination in those threads, somehow, more purpose and reason behind the recognition, than a thread of one-liners.

If someone quotes a funny I came out with or crushes me for comics-fu, then it gives me a glow, certainly. If someone added to the thread in question with "as wonderful as Miss Wonderstarr" (I don't think the similies on that thread so far are much superior), then I'd feel it was a bit pat, even tokenistic, as the thread has become a list of what reads like (though it may not be intended as) quite offhand, empty compliments. If the thread gets long enough, everyone's going to be mentioned on there sooner or later, and I don't feel the similes are really very reflective of anyone's actual standout qualities. It feels like some kind of halfhearted party game where every child has to be given a little present.

miss wonderstarr

15:06 / 23.10.06

Or maybe that's just what it's become. Anyway, if anyone mentioned me on the thread now it'd feel totally fake cause I've been complaining about it, and it'd be all, "ok, here you go, have a mention and keep quiet".

15:43 / 23.10.06

Toksik, I do think there is a difference between the use of the word 'bitching' and calling a woman who displeases you 'a bitch'. For me there is a difference between 'people (general) bitching and a singular woman being 'a bitch'. However, I agree that bitching isn't a very pleasant term anyway. Can you suggest something better that I can use?

15:52 / 23.10.06

Again, I can’t speak for Boboss, but personally, I find a thread dedicated to people telling eachother how wonderful they are a bit Oprah and a bit sick-making.

It's just how you percieve it though, because what's funny is that that thread was never 'dedicated' to people telling each other how wonderful they are, and in fact that's not what happened. People said nice things about other people, but there was no reciprocal back-slapping and no rule that people should be nice.

They just were.

I'd probably feel the same as you if the thread had been 'dedicated to people being nice to each other' but I don't mind if something just turns out that way.

Anyway, it won't happen now so you can all stop worrying. Everyone will be too afraid to contribute to any thread saying vaguely nice things about others for fear of being labelled 'sick-making.'

16:01 / 23.10.06

Personally, I would rather read posts that are overly-nice, (but preferably genuine), rather than sarcastic piss-takes.

16:42 / 23.10.06

I do think there is a difference between the use of the word 'bitching' and calling a woman who displeases you 'a bitch'.

as do i.
they are pretty closely linked, though.
bitching is to be acting like a bitch, yeah?
you could use complain, or maybe gripe instead.

why didnt you, incidentally?
why do you think bitching was your word of choice, even though i'm sure you know those other two?

16:53 / 23.10.06

Electrix - me too.

Toksik - I have absolutely no idea. Perhaps it's because I'm a sexist pig who likes to secretly denigrate women by using emotive language?

Yeah. It's probably that.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:59 / 23.10.06

I hate to be dragged back in, here, but, Lula, I think what you just did there was a sarcastic piss-take. Which suggests to me that this thread has gone beyond the irony event horizon and everybody should take a deep, cleansing breath and spend their Barbelith dollars somewhere else for a while.

17:46 / 23.10.06

Haus, at the risk of actually having a fit of the screaming habdabs, I just need to say that although I may prefer posts that are not sarcastic piss-takes, that does not mean I never post them. Therefore it is not ironic that I have. It would only be ironic if I said I never did.

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:53 / 23.10.06

We could do this, Lula, but I'm not sure how far it would get us, and I repeat my earlier suggestion that everybody might wish to walk away from this thread for a while and perhaps work on their yoga for a bit.

17:57 / 23.10.06

Do y'all mind? I'm having to strain fistfuls of black flies from my Chardonnay here.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:33 / 23.10.06

A black fly writes:

Oh, I can't be arsed.

18:37 / 23.10.06

Perhaps you should focus on things about Barbelith you like instead of fixating on all those annoying things you don't?

I agree that I'm a bit of a moaner*, but I find it difficult to help myself and I don't really see what harm it does, in fact, very often I think it's good to have a whinge, and I reject the accusation that I am censorious. It should also be noted that I do try - especially when other's feelings need to be taken into account - to be aware of my own subjectivity. My reserve comment wasn't so much intended to let me off the hook, rather to point out that I was writing from my own very special place. It was about me and my s(qu)ick buttons, not those that pressed them - most of whom are posters that I have a lot of time for.

For me this thread, when not being used to highlight something a tad more objectively problematic (PW's meltdown springs to mind**), has a kind of cathartic function that needn't be aggressive or confrontational, although I'll admit that that's not always how it's been used (I'm guilty here).

Stevely, for the record my thinking matches yours pretty closely around my use of the term "english reserve", and, Lula, I'd dislike that thread whether I was mentioned or not. Oh, and, er, I don't know what your internal image of me looks like but I wouldn't describe myself as shy.

*I like to think that I am very enthusiastic about those things that I like, and I'm of the opinion that I can also be very warm and friendly and generous from time to time, so GO ME!

**It seemed to me at the time that this thread was the best place to communicate to PW that he wasn't just being contentious or having a reasonable debate, but that he was actually annoying the bejesus out of board members other than Haus. Something I think he needed to hear

18:37 / 23.10.06

i'm sorry if i am coming across heated.
it isnt my intention at all to be nippy or aggro.

i was challenging your use of a word that you found objectionable enough in one context to comment on, but comfortable enough with in another to use it yourself.

i was genuinely curious as to why you felt you had used that word instead of another, and i didnt mean to suggest anything else by my question.

i respectfully suggest if you're baulking at the idea of interrogating your word choice that you should refrain from advising others on theirs.
seems only polite to me.

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:41 / 23.10.06

Someone dare me to drink this methylated spirits.

19:08 / 23.10.06

Oh, I can't be arsed.

Blue-arsed, surely.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:10 / 23.10.06

A purple-arsed mandrill writes-

don't you go making a monkey out of me, sonny Jim.

Love

A purple-arsed mandrill.

19:15 / 23.10.06

you should get a blog.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:28 / 23.10.06

A "blog-poo", surely?

No. Hang on. That would be rubbish.

19:32 / 23.10.06

[calmly in a conversational tone]Hey Toksik, you seem to genuinly think that the verb bitching and the noun fuckingbitch are the same word. Personally I have a complicated relationship with the word Bitch. I use it as a noun in reference to my female friends of long standing, indeed there is a group of us still in touch from uni and we are each others bitches. Non of us feel oppressed or are trying to oppress with this use of the word. It makes me think of the length of our friendship, the extent of our knowledge of mutual dirt, the commitment to our friendship and the potential harm we are capable of inflicting in the name of protecting each other. It's like the backslapping 'old dog' I imagine in mens clubs.

The verb means whiny or mean grumbling. It cuts accross genders and as such it bothers me less that maybe it should as, I can see that it implies that to complain in a mean spirited way is an inherantly female occupation. Being female I know this is not true.

To be called a fucking bitch is something that most women have experienced. It is totally gender specific and not the same if you're a bloke. I've been called it in fun by someone I know in the company of others who got the joke. That again is different. But the phrase fucking bitch is one that I don't enjoy being around. It is the last resort of inarticulate contempt and it does my head in.

If you're wondering what my point is I supose I am too. I think we own our vocabulary whick sits in the wider very fluid context of contemporary culture and history Asking someone not to use what you may have experienced as hate language, doesn't mean that you throw the baby out with the bath water. Like I said, complicated.[calmly in a conversational tone]

Btw, I am enjoying the cheary nonsense of the thread in question, who knows where it might go. I will most certainly die defending your right to be as grumpy as you wish in your grumpy thread. I just wanted to give anyone who was arsed the heads up that not everyone is offended by or has standards for P.D.A.s.

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