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Moderation requests & discussion thereof

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12:10 / 31.05.06

Sorry, the above was posted in anger and was a bit more snide than I would want to stand by. I'd like to have some stats collated partly for my own sake, in fact, so that I can point to something and don't get reduced to sounding unconvincing and dogmatic (but EVERYBODY KNO that women are oppressed it is A TRUE FACT!!!), which doesn't help anyone.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:43 / 31.05.06

Mathelete can pick fights with Haus on his own time - I've moved to delete this.

14:49 / 31.05.06

Have you PMed him to that effect as well, Flyboy, cause I feel more comfortable with that rather than straight deleting...

14:56 / 31.05.06

Just a thought about Deva's idea of a locked thread for statistics: why not use a protected page on the wiki instead? As I understand it, the wiki is a reference and/or handbook for posters on Barbelith, making it a more suitable place for reference materials than the forum itself. Then have an unlocked thread for everyone to gather and discuss statistics which need to be added, and occasionally a wiki mod can sweep through and add the vetted ones to the reference page.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:57 / 31.05.06

That might lead to him PMing me in return, an eventuality with which I am not comfortable.

15:02 / 31.05.06

Yeah... but we then have to be clear why we're deleting someone's post without even telling them, much less gaining their consent. Because it's off-topic? Because it seems to be provocative? I agree with you that the Math/Haus spats are tedious and can derail threads, but I'm not sure deleting Math's posts outright is an ideal way to address that.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:12 / 31.05.06

Well, I guess that the request was turned down by someone. I suggest a warning in-thread to be a better idea (with a pointer to here if Math wants to start a 'TH3Y AR3 TRYIN@ TO CENSOR M3!!' tirade). Although I don't agree with it I think it's reasonable for Mathlete to express hirself in that way and at least it's short. I hope Haus doesn't reply and I'll keep an eye on the thread in case Math does want to use the thread to continue hir argument with Haus.

16:06 / 31.05.06

Deva: Could we stick them in a (locked) 101 thread - not a low-snark discussion thread, just a reference thread -

I actually made a thread in Switchboard for that sort of thing.

Currently, it's mostly (all?) political facts & tools for analyzing your (least) favorite politician, but could easily do with some more general statistical sources.

Not precisely what you were looking for, but might be useful as far as research tool stuff.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:15 / 31.05.06

I hope Haus doesn't reply and I'll keep an eye on the thread in case Math does want to use the thread to continue hir argument with Haus.

I think that's rather optimistic in its assessment of Mathlete's degree of focus.

16:31 / 31.05.06

fly;
i appreciate you have a stance on personal messages that isnt very similar to my own.
i think you have to alter your policy for cases of post deletion, or else make other arrangements.

its not on to propose the deletion of posts or threads without explaining yourself to the person concerned.
how is of course up to you, but i dont think it's good moderation practice to omit this important step.

Tryphena Absent

17:37 / 31.05.06

I do think that Phallicus comes across as much more amenable to debate than Shadowsax ever was. The fact that Phallicus keeps changing argument midstream is actually a sign of retreat in the face of a *better* argument.

I agree with this. Phallicus has actually been on barbelith for about two weeks. He's contradicting himself quite a lot at the moment but is also actively trying to back down. That he responds to what reads like aggression with aggression is not surprising. I think we should give him a chance to distinguish aggression from assertion before we talk about banning. The ability to distinguish can be very difficult when you first start posting here and the sheer level of thought that we ask people to put into culture and political subjects on barbelith is unusual in online communities. I'm not asking people to be kinder but 14 days is a bit quick to judge when someone is confronting a level of examination of their own words that they're just not used to.

17:41 / 31.05.06

If I may, it would mean a great deal to me if you do not delete Mathelete's post in the thread. While there maybe a bigger issue involving Haus/Mathelete, I am very invested in the dialogue happening with Haus in that thread and Mathelete's post is apart of the process. While I may not agree with Mathelete the question raised by hir did help me qualify my reaction to Haus' post.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

20:54 / 31.05.06

I'd like to have some stats collated partly for my own sake, in fact, so that I can point to something and don't get reduced to sounding unconvincing and dogmatic

Deva, I linked to a couple of charts and graphs, from the U of Maryland and the US Census, in the Duke thread, in hopes that Phallicus would give them a look. You or any other policy people might want to take a look- might be exactly what you're looking for.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:41 / 01.06.06

I'd agree that it's worth mentioning in some form when and why a post is being moved for deletion. If not by PM, then by a post in-thread...

Jawsus-son Starship

08:52 / 01.06.06

why is it ok for haus to dive into a thread to question somebodies rhetoric, but not for me. I was stating an opinion about what I saw as an unhelpful argument, not trying to start one.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:30 / 01.06.06

Mathlete, your response here seems to illustrate a regular complaint about your interaction with Barbelith. You don't appear to read things, or if you do read things you do not appear to take them in, preferring instead to reverse engineer an imaginary train of events back from the response you want to make. This has been mentioned before, when you have drawn conclusions based on factually incorrect accounts of events, and when the factual inaccuracies of your account have been pointed out you have responded by restating your conclusion rather than reexamining your source material.

As here. To describe me as "diving in" when I had already been involved in the discussion of the thread misrepresents my actions, whereas you did indeed "dive in" - your post had no relation to or discussion of the subjects broached in the previous 8 pages, and your subsequent post seemed not to have taken into account any of the foregoing discussion or where it had gone. To describe me as "questioning someone's rhetoric" also seems to suggest a rather light reading of the thread. The first person to use the term "rhetoric" was Phallicus, of two (or, he subsequently claimed, one of two) contributions to a feminist weblog, some posts below my request to him to read the thread, or to tie in his comments to the subject of the thread if he had in a remotely useful way, a request I would also make to you.

Korso Jerusalem

11:34 / 01.06.06

Actually a very good point.
All the bickering and nonsense aside, I did indeed jump into that thread without anything much of worth to contribute. There was a discussion going on, and I leaped right in to give my raaaaaaaadical opinion that the second (hah, read the post again. Revisionism is your friend.) feministing post seemed a bit much.

Rather than participate in the Switchboard just for the sake of it, me and the other new members should keep in mind the nature of the swtichboard. It's not a place to bitch about the news, its a place to have actual discussion, with all those silly facts and whatnot. Sweeping generalizations and unfounded opinions are more suitable for the Conversation forum, if anything.

Many apologies to all for the "liberals pissing themselves" crap. I have no excuses other than idiocy, and will keep the bullshittery to a minimum henceforth.

13:40 / 01.06.06

!!!!Attention Book Mods!!!!

Can we please turn this thread on The Sound and The Fury into a general Faulkner thread as per this request?

I'd like to discuss As I Lay Dying and Red Concrete would like to discuss Soldiers' Pay.

15:08 / 01.06.06

Gah, someone put in two identical requests for that and I agreed the second and disagreed the first, for some reason - if another mod does the same the other way round, neither request will go through. Sorry, was distracted. If any Book mods are checking here & want to agree the request, please agree the second request and disagree the first.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:10 / 01.06.06

Phallicus, it's good that you've recognised that.

15:15 / 01.06.06

Well, the Faulkner thread looks great now. Thanks to the mods.

15:47 / 01.06.06

Maybe I'm being annoying, or maybe I'm being Ganesh, but the new thread summary makes my eyes twitch. Can we correct the two punctuation errors at the end? I'll even post the corrected version so a mod can copy and paste:

William Faulkner, 1897-1962, writer of, among other things, "The Sound and the Fury", "As I Lay Dying", "The Unvanquished" and, of course, "Aliens versus Predator: The Novelisation of the Major Motion Picture". Discuss here.

Jawsus-son Starship

18:04 / 01.06.06

You're right of course Haus. But rather then paint me as a willful misreader of threads, perhaps it might be more useful to realise that there are many possible readings of what appears on this site. Maybe I don't think the same as you - hell, I'm sure I don't. While you may pick apart the words people use, maybe once in a while you could try to look past those words, and look at the sentiment behind them. Not all of us can muster your cool, unemotional responses, and I certainly can't articulate myself as well as you. As such, its probably best that I don't engage with you in any meaningful way. As I've said before, you clearly lack even a base level of respect for me, so I'm not too worried when I read your dismisal of this.

With regards to Flyboy's move to delete my post, I think this has less to do with what I'd written, and much more to do with the fact that I wrote it. For whatever reason you've taken a dislike to me; understandable from your POV I'm sure, though I don't understand. Maybe enlighten me?

It's come to my attention that, for some at least, I'm a figure of dislike on here. I'm sure that some of you think I should apologise for any action or statement I've made that you personally find offensive, but I can't for the life of me work out what I've done that should give me the label of "resident mysogynist". So, until I'm shown what a misogynistic pig I am, I can't apologise for being one. I'll be away from posting on here for a while, and I'll be having a long hard think about the kind of person that people on here think I am. It's never nice to have a bad reputation, so perhaps by putting some distance between my persona on here, and what I'm like in real life, I can come back at a later date an earn a better one.

18:35 / 01.06.06

Maybe I'm being annoying, or maybe I'm being Ganesh, but the new thread summary makes my eyes twitch. Can we correct the two punctuation errors at the end?

I think you're just being Canadian. Did you move the punctuation outside of the quotation marks? American convention always puts punctuation inside.

Tryphena Absent

20:49 / 01.06.06

This thread has a very specific purpose and we've all started to use it as a general forum for discussion instead. Can we start opening up more general threads- if we want to talk about controversial moderation proposals then it should probably be taken elsewhere. We probably shouldn't get into a situation where threads and posts that have been flagged up start getting lost in the mass of discussion.

21:41 / 01.06.06

I disagree.

Flyboy said: Mathelete can pick fights with Haus on his own time - I've moved to delete this.

I don't presume to speak for Flyboy, but.... He's alerting other mods to his decision to begin deletion, and he's aware that other mods might not agree. The decision is not controversial enough to necessitate a whole other thread, but a simple discussion among the necessary mods and involved posters.

Here is the thread summary: A general thread for people to bring things to the attention of moderators, to avoid having to start a new thread every time something crops up, and for some members to demonstrate their O-C analness...
Note the underlined part. I think this thread is fulfilling its need perfectly.

Unless, Anna, you were not referring to the Math-Haus spat but to my requests re Faulkner. If so, then... ?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:57 / 01.06.06

I think Anna meant this thread was getting sidelined by the extended discussion of one particular mod request. Which I agree it is.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:58 / 01.06.06

You're right of course Haus.

Next time, dude, just stop there and take a breath. Don't think about why that shouldn't matter (because you are a great guy in real life, because the other party is "picking apart" your words without appreciating their truth, because the other party is an emotionless Vulcan) - just stop, hit post, have a cup of tea. Trust me, if the Internet had existed in this form when I was 17, I would have given my younger self the same advice.

Tryphena Absent

22:36 / 01.06.06

The decision is not controversial enough to necessitate a whole other thread, but a simple discussion among the necessary mods and involved posters.

I really meant that the original decision was regarded as controversial and has led to this thread being used for a lengthy discussion. I'm not criticising that discussion at all, this thread has simply served a specific function and I worry that it's going to start failing to do so because the exchanges in here have become so much longer.

23:09 / 01.06.06

Flyboy, you are aware that you can receive a pm from any user at any time. If you don't want to be seen to invite a response, I'm sure you can write 'Do not respond to this' on it, direct user who ails you to appropriate policy thread where they can discuss the matter publicly, and should you receive (as stated) undesired personal communication - delete unopened. You know all of this, so as a rationale for not performing a teensy bit of hands-dirtying for a mod action you wish to carry out, I don't see this vague discomfort of yours cutting it.

09:50 / 02.06.06

Can someone sort out the awfulness of this thread's title and bung in an abstract? And sort out the HTML and... oh, y'know. It hurts my eyes.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:32 / 02.06.06

I've put in requests.

20:01 / 02.06.06

Thank you.

18:58 / 05.06.06

mods o'conversation.. I was a bit over eager and created a snark thread when Flyboy was kind enough to point out a perfectly good one was escaping my notice.

Can you please delete mine?

Thank ya.

19:04 / 05.06.06

Your wish is my command, xk.

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