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7 Soldiers

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The Tower Always Falls

15:49 / 28.02.05

Just here to toss out an interesting interpretation of these sacrificed Seven Soliders as old hero archetypes. Can't take credit for it though, as it comes from a friend's blog. Personally, I think he may have something there. Perhaps not entirely accurate, but there's definitely a sense of Morrison sacrificing the old archetypes in order to create his new ones. (And Spyder so is the Ultimate pastiche...)

18:07 / 28.02.05

I think he may be on to something but not quite what we thought.

1. The Vigilante is the Golden Age. Rough, but important from a historical perspective.

2. The Whip is the Silver/Bronze Age. A revamped GA character with the potential to go far beyond the spies and racketeers of her predecessor.

3. Gimmix is the Image era, complete with goofy name spelling.

4. Boy Blue is the "widescreen" hero. All action, no characterization.

5. Dan is the "retro" hero, trying to recapture the past.

6. And Spyder is the cynical, too-cool-for-the-room Ultimate-era.

Each of them sort of symbolize an era of comics. The seventh soldier must therefore be the NEW era, whatever that ends up becoming.

21:00 / 28.02.05

Preview of Shining Knight #1

Make with the oohing and the ahhing.

23:54 / 28.02.05

Now the Sheeda make like the Fremen of Dune? Ooooooh! Aaaaah!

13:59 / 01.03.05

Hey, I usually lurk, but I wanted to clear something up about the Post-Crisis 7SOV. The Post-Crisis line-up of the team was established a few years ago by Geoff Johns in Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. #9, and consists of Crimson Avenger, Vigilante, Stuff the Chinatown Kid (one of Vigilante's partners), Shining Knight, Star-Spangled Kid, Stripsey, and the Spider (I, Spider's dad, originally published by Quality Comics in the '40's). Wing was still not an official member. You can see this line-up in the picture Vigilante looks at in SS #0.

As it turned out, the Spider was a bad guy who masqueraded as a hero to keep the good guys off his tail. He was in league with 7SOV villain The Hand and betrayed the team, which lead to Wing's death and the time-displacement that led Vigilante to live several years in the Old West.

--Cliffy

Haus of Mystery

14:14 / 01.03.05

Fuck me that's nice artwork. I have the feeling that the 'seven soldiers' opus could well have the most consistently great artwork of any Grant run.

The Natural Way

14:46 / 01.03.05

That is so fuckin' dinner-time!

14:53 / 01.03.05

Yeah, so friend's blog x Mario / my thoughts =

Vigilante Pulp and Golden Age
When heroes knew right and wrong, archetypical roles and places, basic adventuring.
JSA, Conan

Dynamite Dan Rectroactive Silver Age
Sooper Powers, but not really current or in step with reality
Mainstreamlined comic books trying to find out what works from new combinations of old ideas
Avengers, Outsiders, Titans, etc

Whip Watchmen Returns
Urban adventures in self-analysis and sex games
Dark Knight, Watchmen, Mystery Play

Boy Blue the mid 90s Image
all image, no substance, video gamer, big guns, boom boom boom
Youngblood, Spawn, 90s X-Men

Spyder the late 90s Revamps
gritty reality permeates character, results in "ultimate hard" versions
Authority, the Ultimates, Transmetropolitan

Gimmix Astro City ABC
Post-hero fitting in to current reality, opposite of Dan -possibly the most effective and important member, but only does "light" hero work.
Tom Strong, New X-Men, Catwoman

So the seventh would be the open slot for something new? Seaguy? Xorn? Ali?

Haus of Mystery

15:18 / 01.03.05

Hmm. Reaching possibly?

15:56 / 01.03.05

The update on Tower's link is pretty much identical to Chad's work there. It makes a reasonable degree of sense, esp. when you think about the Seven Unknown Grant Morrisons revising the Spider at the start, but it's not the kind of meta reading I particularly care for. Seems awfy obvious.

I am interested in this 'Who is the seventh, missing member?' question, though.

So. There's six soldiers on the cover, and there's a sword that leads you to immediately think of Shining Knight. Well, it wouldn't have six months ago, but it does now.

In the chronology of heroic literature, which I suppose must include early Image comics, and judging by that preview, we're going even further back first.

16:26 / 01.03.05

I'm not sure this works, but I'm posting it.

Shining Knight - 7th and 1st
Vigilante? - answer: Guardian
Dynomite Dan? - answer: Zatanna
Whip? - answer: Klarion, the Witch Boy
Boy Blue? - answer: Frankenstein
Spyder? - answer: Mister Miracle
Gimmix? - answer: Bulleteer

17:00 / 01.03.05

If you don't show your working, you get no marks.

I like how Neh-Buh-Loh is a post-failed rescue mission universe.

17:21 / 01.03.05

Meeting's over so I got time ta type.

Work: Seems to me each one of the eras of superheroism is lacking something. Whip says as much while she whines through her "crime noir" recruitment. All our suppositions are asking the same thing. What makes the chosen 7 for issue 0 special or important? What makes them work? What do they each lack or need? What is the answer for whom each of them is the question?

If Vigilante doesn't have contemporary responsibilities, then the Manhattan Guardian.
If Dan wants to know how to temper magical power with reality, then Zatanna.
If the Whip wants to engage her dreams with zeal and wonder, then Klarion the Witch Boy.

And so on...

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:02 / 01.03.05

I don't think Boy Blue's very Image.

Now, if Grant had brought in The Scratch...

Haus of Mystery

20:20 / 01.03.05

I agree - he hardly fits the Image archetype

does he?

21:34 / 01.03.05

I put Gimmix as the Image-era hero(ine) simply because she has the kewl mysspellyng thing going for her.

Boy Blue might be Silver Age (a high-tech/mystical revamp of a GA character), with the Whip taking the Bronze Age slot. I do think Dan is the "retro/nostalgia" hero of the Busiek/Johns type.

21:50 / 01.03.05

along these lines I would place Blue Boy as a sort of "other media interests" type. Video Games, Music... the internet? Superheroes as touched upon by other media.

Gimmix could also be the IMAGE/90's speculation marketing that comics went through. Surface appeal (plastic surgery/variant covers) but minimal substance. Plus that neat spelling.. as a character she seems to be mostly interested in her profit margin.

Whip seems to have that "dark age" WATCHMEN or Vertigo fetish plus literary deconstruction.

and so forth

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

02:25 / 02.03.05

Power House: Why All The Symbolism?

brilliant.

Some points - Gimmix knows Zantanna, she mentions her father at breakfast. Greg worked with someone named Frankenstein during his jaunt through time. The Bikes have digital video cams built in, so the last scene is likely viewed through one of the cameras.

On the last page it seems like they are using the time sewing machine (looks like a submarine) to send artifacts backward (forward?) to create another 7 heroes maybe?

I liked that Greg's house had trophies, including gold records and what looked like an african mask, but covered in circuitry. Question: why was the 1st spidaer a machine? has it been established that the sheeda use robots, or is that new?

03:35 / 02.03.05

well, if i remember correctly, grant drew up revamps for a dozen or more characters, and picked the seven he liked best for the full treatment. i suspect the six we see here a the one who didn't make the cut.

it seems like grant has 'broken' each one of these characters in some small way so that they wouldn't work as solo operators. it appears part of the point of this prolouge is that the prevaling model of superhero teams is to glue them together out of partial personalies, steroetypes rather than fully rounded individuals who could carry their own books. vigilante dan is too old, the whip is too exploitive, dynamite is too much of a tool, boy blue is a complete cypher, spyder is a sleezy creep, and gimmix is an annoying bitch. as a group they create an interesting dynamic, but they're nothing singularly. they're not fully formed superheroes, but charactures.

06:09 / 02.03.05

I'm not sure all these attempts to tie the six to particular ages isn't just an exercise in barking up the wrong tree.
Foremost amongst my objections is the fact that many of them don't seem to fit anywhere neatly.

I mean Gimmix as an Image character? Um, no.

The Natural Way

10:44 / 02.03.05

Yeah, it just strikes me as nerdy, anal cataloguing - pointless, really.

Altho' I do agree with the idea that Greg is a super-hero. He's a super-hero down to the bone. And, Christ, these guys are no more cardboard cut-outs than any character on first inspection. Get the readers attention first and then complicate things...... And, personally, Blue-boy strikes me as the best rendition of a teen in comics at the mo'.

11:48 / 02.03.05

Am I the only person who saw "Giant Robot Spider" and thought of Jon Peters?

14:12 / 02.03.05

Am I the only person who saw "Giant Robot Spider" and thought of Jon Peters?

Nope. I immediately heard Kevin Smith telling his Jon Peters stories.

14:17 / 02.03.05

"you ain't havin' the gulch"

Damn RIGHT he's a badass superhero!!

Also loved:

"When do you really become a superhero?

Is it when you ride your first giant spider?"

Ah, nostalgia.

plus: Criminals on atomic pogo sticks! Genius!

Maybe Greg Saunders/Vigilante is related to DC Golden Age daredevil Speed Saunders?

I wonder how and when the JLA picked the Golden Age Vigilante out of time and landed him the present? (i.e. did Grant just make this up or was this a story that was actually done by other creators at some point...?)

Where was the [visual] glimpse of the Arthurian castle? I think I missed it?

The Natural Way

14:22 / 02.03.05

As the Sheeda revolve into our reality. It's a candy-coloured, bendy kinda castle.

15:38 / 02.03.05

For the curious:
here's a column that's mostly about the JLA history but touches on 7 soldiers & the Nebular man

16:14 / 02.03.05

Isn't the point that they fail because there's only six of them?
The seventh member fails to show up so therefore the "mystical significance" (yadda yadda) is lost on the rag tag bunch of heroes?
I'm all for the meta-analysing but it seemed like a pretty obvious reason to me, a piece of the jigsaw is missing so they don't work as a group properly.

16:45 / 02.03.05

ohh, I totally saw THAT castle - I thought people meant some tiny detail of castle tucked into some panel somewhere, very hidden and very subtle.

The candy colours in that castle reminded me of the Vinarama colour pallette.

I'm American and I just typed 'colour'. Barbelith is a bad, bad influence on me.

16:48 / 02.03.05

Those '7' Cycles were hilarious.

The Sheeda fairy who rides the mosquito that chomps on the pre-7 Mysterious Men Spider looks like Jeremy Irons in Kabuki makeup.

7 Mysterious Men = 7 Old Men of the early Disney animation studio???

16:52 / 02.03.05

>> the Seven Soldiers of Victory made their debut in LEADING COMICS #1, and consisted of the Star-Spangled Kid and Stripesy, the Green Arrow and Speedy, the Crimson Avenger, the Vigilante and the Shining Knight.

If that's the case (and I believe it is), who's the dark-skinned lad in the pic that Greg Saunders looks at in SEVEN SOLIDERS #0? He's wearing what looks like a blue tunic on the far right.

17:20 / 02.03.05

"who's the dark-skinned lad in the pic that Greg Saunders looks at in SEVEN SOLIDERS #0?"

That's Stuff, the Chinatown Kid. As I mention upthread, Post-Crisis Green Arrow and Speedy didn't exist during the Golden Age, so obviously the Post-Crisis line-up was different than the original one. The new roster was finally specified five years ago in Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. #9. GA and Speedy were replaced by Alias the Spider and Stuff, who I understand was a suppporting character in Vigilante's original strip. Wing is still an unoffical member.

--Cliffy

17:34 / 02.03.05

Ooh, just checked out the Shining Knight preview.
I count six knights. Of course Arthur might turn up but I doubt it - the table has been "shattered" afterall.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

18:05 / 02.03.05

All this reminds me of the time the ABC Warriors took a human girl into the group to harness the power of "7"

18:20 / 02.03.05

"I wonder how and when the JLA picked the Golden Age Vigilante out of time and landed him the present? (i.e. did Grant just make this up or was this a story that was actually done by other creators at some point...?)"

Originally, JLofA #100-102. Retold (in it's post-Crisis form) in Stars & STRIPE #9.

"I count six knights."

The seventh would be Sir Justin himself, no?

While we are on the subject: "Silent Knight" is another Golden Age DC character. This is probably relevant. =)

19:23 / 02.03.05

ohh, so he was there but SILENT...

Is the power of 7 like 'the Care Bear stare'?

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