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Hieronymus
00:03 / 31.05.06
But anyway, another thing I found lacking about this movie is something I feel recent superhero movies have been dropping the ball on, and that's the music. I like the classic John Williams/Danny Elfman-type scores of yore with the instantly recognizable themes (Spider-Man has an uncharacteristically weak theme from Elfman; can you hum it?).

I dunno. I thought the John Ottman score in X2 was pretty fitting.
 
 
Ganesh
00:12 / 31.05.06
I just didn't get why MAgneto had to rip the entire bridge just to drop it at the edge of the island. Would it be more efficent to drop it point down on top of the facility?

Or fly everyone across on a smaller, more manoevrable chunk of metal.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:13 / 31.05.06
>> Moira is all in her lab or whatever, checking on her coma patient, when you hear Patrick Stewart's voice say "Moira.." and she replies "Charles?"

PROTEUS, baby!! Setting up for the theoretical/probably-never-to-happen-and-that's-probably-for-the-best 4th movie where Charles' mind shares the body of his totally messed-up massively destructive long-forgotten secret shame son Proteus! Or something. (I forget if they named the burned-or-whatever-beyond recognition dude in the hospital bed in the scene where Charles says "See, kids, what you can do with transferring consciousness?")
 
 
FinderWolf
00:42 / 31.05.06
and they never named Callisto as such, did they? In terms of someone calling her by name?

Madrox was fun. The actor managed to infuse some personality into his 2 lines.

Kelsey Grammer as Beast was perfect. Hearing "oh my stars and garters" onscreen was a surprise and made me chuckle.
 
 
chairmanWOW
09:46 / 31.05.06
the more help we gave zerone

We, we, we, we, weeeee! Us versus them, eh?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:25 / 31.05.06
I can only assume that everyone in the mansion was fucking sick of Cyclops moping around over the death of the love of his life, as no-one seems to mind one bit that he's been killed. Hell, Wolvering and Storm rush Jean back to mansion without mentioning that Logan found Cyke's glasses. Neither of them say anything like 'I wonder where he is' or 'I'm going back up there to look for him'. And as for getting killed off off-screen, even direct-to-videos don't often sink so low.

Magneto seems to have a habit of coming up with plans that involve the death of most or all of the mutants that choose to associate with him. Sending 'pawn' mutants in to be zapped with the cure? Magneto is a dick. He also seems to forget that he has a Queen to deploy on the board, which he doesn't.

Did Halle Berry throw a strop after filming the last film? Because she seems to get an inordinate amount of stuff to do. Cyclops and Xavier get killed off, Famkke spends most of the film looking like a wax dummy, Anna Paquin has less screen time than someone who, in film two, was on screen for about ten seconds. WTF? I actually didn't mind Vinny Jones that much, probably because the film surrounding him was so bad.

There was too much packed into this film. They should have chosen either the Magneto war story OR the Phoenix but not both. X-3 should have been this film minus Jean Grey's return. Bring her back for film four and full on Phoenixy goodness. Still, killing her off at the end of this film, Magneto's powers apparently about to return and Charles' survival means they could probably retcon this film out of existence at the start of film four if they wanted to.

As it was the Phoenix was completely wasted. She didn't really do anything useful, some sort of scene to explain that she agrees with what Magneto wants to do would have been something. Xavier's mutterings about the origin of the character seem to be just a sketch for the old mad=bad stereotype, she goes with Magneto because she's a mental and therefore evil.

The Danger Room training session was good (though they've never explained or had the Room in film continuity have they?) and if they missed out on 'fastball special' at least they got 'oh my stars and garters'. And the climax scene was pretty, I did feel a bit icky watching Wolverine's healing factor battling to keep the skin on his bones while Jean was slowly burning it off. That'll be Weta Digital's work I fancy.

Performance-wise, Stewart and McKellen were good as ever, and strangely Marsters, for his brief time, impressed, which he'd never done before. Kelsey Grammer did pretty well as Beast, though he did look stupid in that suit. They should have done a fully CGI Beast, a la Gollum, though. Halle Berry was competent, as ever, Hugh Jackman did a better job and Famke Janssen and Rebecca Romijn were both completely wasted. I don't think there was any need in the plot for Mystique to be captured. With so much to do it would have simplified things for them just to have Magneto and her attack the truck to rescue the mutants. And if the guards had the Mutant Cure in guns at that point, why not use them on these three highly dangerous mutants? With at least one of them known to be an associate of Magneto having her in control of her powers seems to be asking for something to go wrong.

No, not good at all.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:39 / 31.05.06
James Mardsen not Marsters...I've often confused their names myself. Mardsen = square jawed boring hunk of X-Men and Superman Returns; Marstsers = Spike, who we all know and love.

Yep, this was the first mention of (and first presentation of) the Danger Room in the X-films.

And yes, Halle Berry did complain that Storm wasn't given enough to do in the previous 2 films so they appeased her by sort of giving Storm a bit more to do. I think she might have threatened to walk out if they didn't beef up her role.

Yeah, Rogue's story arc was barely there...and at the end she has no powers! We're not even clear who Bobby chooses, Kitty or Rogue (named "Marie" for the first time in film or comics, I believe - was she ever given a real first name in the comics). Rogue has no powers anymore...Another character effectively 'killed.'

And having seen the movie once, I'm not real clear on what happens to the cure. I guess since Artie/Leech is just fine, there's still a mutant cure for anyone who wants it. And after Magneto's little trick with the SF bridge, I wouldn't be surprised if the gov't does something Civil War-like in the X-Men movie world, if it were to continue.

>> He also seems to forget that he has a Queen to deploy on the board, which he doesn't.

I was surprised at this too. He seems to have no plan for using Jean at all in the takeover/invasion of the labs.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:42 / 31.05.06
and I agree that Mardsen/Cyclops' acting was better this time around (i.e. he didn't embarrass himself). Maybe he took 'a good acting pill,' as one of the creators of cult classic TV show Freaks & Geeks jokes about actors.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:46 / 31.05.06
Oh, and the other thing I forgot, whereas in X2 Jean took the decision to sacrifice herself so the others would live, this time she doesn't do it so Wolverine has to do it. Because, being a girl, that much power would be too much for her poor little brain to handle.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:26 / 31.05.06
Except that she tells him to do it.

I can only assume that everyone in the mansion was fucking sick of Cyclops moping around over the death of the love of his life, as no-one seems to mind one bit that he's been killed.

Maybe they all just read comics. No body = he's not really dead, dudes!
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
23:17 / 31.05.06
I "missed" a chance to catch the cheaper showing today but hey, this thread is much more entertaining!

they should have let Hale go; she could have played a much better role in the Dark Phoenix plot for a 4th movie, if they have done this 3rd one right.

instead it seems the production simply ripped open some trade collections for fan-favourite sequences from several eras and glued them together, DAREDEVIL-style:

"hm, phoenix, that's epic; logan snikting her, so powerful! the cure thing from the joss wheddon run, that's our brains right there... let's kill off some major do-goodies for dramatic effect [they've been killed at least once each in the comic, those fans love them]. oh, of course, can't forget the fastball special scene! and... er... oh my god, the memo's just in: they want to market it as the final part of a trilogy! hurry, cram every mutant we can get into this! let me have a look at that pile of jim lee and romita jr. runs, quick... phew! we have a moo-vie."
 
 
All Acting Regiment
04:26 / 01.06.06
Did anyone else notice the distinctly Endor-esque forest?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
04:47 / 01.06.06
Well, I think it was filmed in Vancouver so it might be more accurate to refer to it as the 'SG-1' forest.

WRT: Jean, it's more the fact that she has to die, she can't be shown to take control of this power, at least for a time. I was expecting that the only reason Cyke and the Professor were killed off was in order for her to bring them back at the climax to show how powerful she was.

So, does anyone know if the two actors had asked to be killed off so they could leave the franchise, or whether that was purely a script decision?
 
 
Liger Null
11:08 / 01.06.06
I read somewhere (I think it was in Wizard) that Halle Berry was considering leaving the franchise...
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:21 / 01.06.06
Saw this last night.

I quite enjoyed it, but it was very "impulse zone" to watch. Entertaining action flick with a rather shallow story papered over it.

A little kid, somewhere to the left of me, eagerly yelped "Look! It's a Sentinel!". Which made me smile.

It's major failure was cramming too much in (and letting Vinnie Jones talk).

Liked Madrox (although underused). Liked Jean turning into a demonic zombie when she went full-blown Phoenix.

Hated them, once again, cutting out Cyclops (really Hollywood, is it too hard for the Scott/Jean/Logan thing to work in a film? Is it? No!).

Although the Phoenix stuff was fun, it seemed a bit extraneous to the plot. I think if they'd either concentrated on the cure storyline or the Phoenix storyline they might have had a bit more depth.

Still, Professer X getting blasted into ash was a moment I wasn't expecting (or his sneaky download into his "backup").
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
13:46 / 01.06.06
So, does anyone know if the two actors had asked to be killed off so they could leave the franchise, or whether that was purely a script decision?

I believe that there were some rumours floating around the Web that Marsden's role was severely curtailed due to the producers feeling that he was a turncoat for defecting to Superman Returns and working with Singer.

I was watching Entertainment Canada the other night and apparently there will be an X4. Paquin, Ashmore, and Rebecca Romain are set to return.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:52 / 01.06.06
I thought Cyke was killed so quickly because Marsden was working on Superman, and the producers were pissed about it since they lost their director to that flick.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:56 / 01.06.06
crosspost = Doh!

Was the guy shooting spikes out of his arms while fighting Wolverine supposed to be Omega Red?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:58 / 01.06.06
That's... very odd. All the publicity in the UK at least has been calling this film "the last in the trilogy", while the voiceover on the TV adverts talks about how every story has an ending, etc.

It's particularly odd since - as someone who quite enjoyed the film over all - many of the story choices that were problematic seemed to be tied in to a desire to make this 'final', although of course in the end they were all undercut in a way that was very faithful to the comic. The cure isn't permanent (and why would it be? - it would be more implausible if it were), Charles has a new body, Scott is just AWOL, and Jean's functionally immortal (Xavier theorises that Jean shielded herself from the water but I call panicked, bullshit rationalisation). All very Planet X, really.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:59 / 01.06.06
Was the guy shooting spikes out of his arms while fighting Wolverine supposed to be Omega Red?

My thought was "okay, so Marrow's a bloke in this version", but you might have a point.
 
 
PyD
13:59 / 01.06.06
Apologies for the extreme length in advance but I have had a wee think and come up with the main areas where atrocities against good classical film story construction were committed.

1) Rogue’s arc makes no sense. In X-men, Magneto all but kills Rogue as part of his plan and only Logan’s intervention saves her. She finds a home with the X-men and is the main character with the most tragic power but her inability to have contact is mitigated by the finding of a loving supportive environment.

In X2 her arc is continued and deepened. The tragedy of her powers re-emerges through the frustration of her burgeoning relationship with Bobby. The potential of her powers for good is shown through her actions that save the lives of the police men when Pyro looses it outside Bobby’s house. The necessary fallout of Magneto’s attempt to kill her is also properly dealt with. She actively wishes to return the favour and it is her emotional connection to the group, the X-men, that stops her – exemplified in Bobby. This is all part of her growth into a future hero; as is her terrified but determined handling of the X-jet to help save her comrades. Rogue’s character grows both as a hero and a tragic figure.

Then we come to The Last Stand. Rogue in this film becomes further frustrated with the tragic nature of her powers because of what she sees as the potential threat of Bobby leaving her, possibly for Kitty. Then she hears of the cure and pretty much disappears from the film except to briefly act as foil for Strom’s attitude towards the cure. A potential mutant human war having been averted in her absence, she reappears at the film’s end de-powered. Where is the arc? Essentially, all her growth as a hero from the first two films goes straight out the window in the face the fear that her boyfriend will cheat on her. The character that acted as the initial emotional link for the audience way back in X-men is just dumped by the writers. That’s just bad writing.

Just off the top of my head, wouldn’t it make more sense for Rogue to re-join her team after say Pyro’s attack on the clinic and finally become a hero in her own right by helping take down the man who attempted to kill her? It also offers a way out of the atrociously handled Magneto de-powering scene that was within seven minutes reversed without a hint of even the most ham fisted foreshadowing or any story logic to back it up. Magneto could have been hit with the cure darts while Rogue was touching him. She absorbs the curing of the gene leaving him temporarily weakened. Thus the resurrection of his powers makes some semblance of sense, and Rogue’s tragedy gets flipped around and becomes about her loosing her powers in an act of heroism. Bitter sweet goodness all round.

2) The final battle was just so lamely handled: Take cute little passive power Kitty versus the big hulking unstoppable Jugernaught. She beats him by ducking; Duc-king. Its lame and its anti-climactic and its very unimaginative. She can phase object she touches for god’s sake. It we absolutely have to have him be defeated by running into a wall why not have her heroically leap through him, then grab and phase his helmet away from him as she passes. ‘Dunk’ his head hits the wall just as before but at lest there is an element of proper physical excitement and heroics in this.
Hell having Rogue save the life of a mutant Magneto has ordered killed for the cause makes much more sense - it having happened to her previously. Plus she gets to save the life of the only living creature she is able to touch. They could even team up to do this thereby coming together as a team, always good in superhero team narratives, burying any tension between them over Bobby.

In order to get around having given all the guards plastic guns the writers realising they had in no way set up who ‘random goth mutant #3’ was and what he could do actually had Magneto name check him, describe his power and comment on the action he was to perform – were into Sex and the City voice-over territory with rubbish like that. Bad bad bad writing.

Magneto, having gone to all the trouble of getting Phoenix on his side, including loosing his oldest friend, which he cares about deeply for exactly two scenes, (awful emotional continuity there) has nothing for her to do in his grand scheme. She just stands there until everyone is already defeated then in an inspired piece of story logic – just goes bonkers. All I can assume is that the writers realised that they had made the character so powerful in an attempt to make her a threat that they couldn’t find a way to use her other than the lamest most linear video-game like way possible. Everyone was defeated in a nice orderly little sequence that exemplified no skill and created no tension. Bad bad bad writing.

Again the Magneto depowering – he was fooled by being snuck up on from behind. That’s it, that’s the big taking down the bad guy climax. Lame. Nay not lame, GARBAGE. You can’t care its just so ludicrously handled. Its both lazy and utterly unexciting.

The big Pyro Iceman showdown is such a letdown. Nothing acrobatic, or even mildly imaginative happens. They throw their respective power in a straight line towards each other and then one of them wins and quips at the other. Its even quite a decent quip but its just such a dull climax for their rivalry it honestly pained me. Apparently becoming made of ice protects you from fire whereas just blasting it is no good at all. Its poor, by any standard.

3)Little issues I’m just going to state.
- Mystique just disappears and then returns in a video screen shot to retroactively explain how the army knew what was going on. Bad writing.
- Angel is utterly redundant to the story. Totally unnecessary waste of an fx budget that could have gone on making Colossus look cooler, or actually showing us Sentinels.
- Cheating on the Sentinels, my little sister, not a comicbook fan or a movie buff is indoctrinated enough into the rules of a classical Hollywood film that she spent the entire film waiting for the big robots to show up. They didn’t. Bad writing. Why tease us with them in the danger room sequence. Just to piss off the audience?
- Stupid dull redundant generic goth (for some reason) mutants with stupidly convenient powers. ‘I have both super speed and the ability to sense mutants and their power levels thus plugging two annoying plot holes simultaneously.’ Lame, dull, stupid, boring, bad writing.
- Despite having their bad guy build an army to take human army the best thing the writers could think to do with Jamie Maddox the Multiple Man was have him be a decoy.

4)Pacing: The entire film was this sequence of events running into one another with no time given to set-up and development. The writing seems overall to act like it was done to facilitate the creation of nice sequential levels for the tie-in game.

The potential weight of events was never allowed to build momentum or gain any gravitas; a key example of this being the potential closure of the school. In the same scene we see both the discussion of the closure of the school and suddenly through the door walks Warren Worthington III inspiring Storm that she still needs to keep the school open. Grand, fine, we knew that was going to happen. But it happens all together, the closure of the school is a threat for all of ten seconds before the necessary inspiration to overcome this obstacle makes itself known. It becomes a redundant plot point brought up and dealt with immediately and is of no further concern or relevance to the story. Storm has no time to come to a proper heroic resolve to keep the school open herself then have this validated by the arrival of a new student desperate for acceptance and help. It’s a hallmark of how weak the writing and how little dramatic thought and effort was put into the film as a whole.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:04 / 01.06.06
The race is on - who will be the Dustin Diamond of the X-Men?
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:10 / 01.06.06
Paquin, Ashmore, and Rebecca Romain are set to return.

Suggesting that Magneto's not the only person who's only been temporarily de-powered by the cure.

The drug was based on DNA synthesised from Archie's X-gene and, claims of permanancy aside, his power seemed to work more like an energy field than a physical effect. Presumably the synthesised DNA is rejected eventually.

I vote for X4 starting with Rogue waking up next to Iceman's dessicated corpse.

Regarding X3 there was one point strongly in it's favour.

No. Sodding. Gambit.
 
 
sleazenation
14:35 / 01.06.06
Aren't you getting Leech and Artie mixed up there, Mad Scientist? Leech was the mutant whose ability to cancel out other mutants powers (he was a homeless orphan morlock whose only mother figure was killed in the Mutant Massacre) Artie Maddock was the kid that communicated in images...
 
 
All Acting Regiment
15:00 / 01.06.06
I vote for X4 starting with Rogue waking up next to Iceman's dessicated corpse.

Hmm...can't his icey business stop her killy business? And doesn't that make the whole Oh no I might kill my Boyfriend stuff a bit redundant...
 
 
FinderWolf
15:35 / 01.06.06
The credits list the guy with the bolts coming out of his arms as "Kid Omega." So, his name is the fusion of Omega Red and Quentin Quire...? (Omega Red Jr.?)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:42 / 01.06.06
I did think initially that Arclight was a very cute boy in goth drag. Then she came closer to the camera, oh well...

Liger Null I read somewhere (I think it was in Wizard) that Halle Berry was considering leaving the franchise...

I wish to state now that I am willing to move to Canada, apply for citizenship, learn to drive and learn to be a chauffeur and drive her away from the franchise. I am then willing to collect and drive back any actress who can actually act a damn to replace her. Personally I think it should be Pam Grier...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:22 / 01.06.06
Iman = Storm

Rumor has it there will be a film (I am calling it Mutant Munich in my head) about a younger Magneto hunting down Nazi's and meeting Charles for the first time.

Also, Brent Ratner is rumored to be attached to a Wolverine movie.
 
 
---
18:43 / 01.06.06
I thought that the film was ok up until the end, when Wolverine killed Jean. What the fuck. It did my head in enough when he did that in Grants New X-Men, but in this film...it was like the story that lead upto that point and the way in which it happened didn't do anywhere near enough justice to what the Phoenix was, and who Jean was. I looked back at New X-Men as soon as I got back, and I was like....this is a STORY! It was good looking back at it, and even after Jean was killed by Wolverine she still came back, the Phoenix consciousness was released and she was free. At least it was imaginative, creative, inspiring and good to read. In this film though, I didn't like it. She stood around for half of the film, went into a rage, then Wolverine killed her. No way near enough of a story around that part and nothing after it. (what happened with Jean was by far the one thing that I was looking forward to the most.)

I did enjoy parts of it, and thought that the battle at the end was prett neat, but I'm pretty sure that I left the cinema feeling more pissed off than I ever have done after seeing a film.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:53 / 01.06.06
Superhero Hype says that a source reports the following:

>> I didn't know if you were interested but I can confirm that Ian McKellen will be playing Magneto in the Magneto solo prequel. I was told this by John Bruno at a screening of X3. The company who worked on X3 to deage them is also going to be doing the Mags prequel. According to John, Ian is really excited.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:54 / 01.06.06
I always pictured Angela Bassett playing Storm. I had heard her name was rumored back when the first X-film was being put together; who knows if the rumors were true.
 
 
Liger Null
20:02 / 01.06.06
If we absolutely have to have him be defeated by running into a wall why not have her heroically leap through him, then grab and phase his helmet away from him as she passes. ‘Dunk’ his head hits the wall just as before but at lest there is an element of proper physical excitement and heroics in this.

She couldn't phase in the presence of Leech, remember?
 
 
Liger Null
20:07 / 01.06.06
I always pictured Angela Bassett playing Storm. I had heard her name was rumored back when the first X-film was being put together; who knows if the rumors were true.

Finderwolf, you are a canine after my own heart. Those sultry eyes, that regal bearing...I'm glad to hear that she was at least considered for the role. Maybe she turned it down or something.
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
20:43 / 01.06.06
That's... very odd. All the publicity in the UK at least has been calling this film "the last in the trilogy", while the voiceover on the TV adverts talks about how every story has an ending, etc.

Well, X3 broke box office records and made massive moola. So of course Fox wants to keep the franchise going and milk it for all it's worth. With regards to the "ending" here's what Tom Rothman, Fox studio head said:

These three movies work as a trilogy. These characters in this relationship, it's the culmination of that saga. It's the culmination and the resolution of those relationships laid out in the first two movies. That doesn't mean never, I would ever say never again, but I will say that this brings that saga to an end. It's quite the way the last Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, brought that trilogy to a conclusion in terms of those characters, that's what this movie does. It goes all the way back to the first one and rounds off and completes that three-part story”.

So Rothman was already giving himself an out, knowing that if X3 made $$$$$$$, which it did, he could push forth with yet another film. Apparently Rothman is spinning X3 as the end of the current storyline, not the end of the X-Men films.

I googled around to confirm the news I heard the other night on Entertainment Canada, about the confirmation of an X4 film. The interesting thing is now I'm reading conflicting reports. Ah well, such is the nature of the film industry - as fickle as ever.
 
 
grime
00:23 / 02.06.06
"It goes all the way back to the first one and rounds off and completes that three-part story”.


this wins for worst line of marketing bullshit.
 
  

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