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DC: Identity Crisis

 
  

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Benny the Ball
22:01 / 10.11.04
And then Youngblood will save the day.

Atom, yeah, right. There's another issue to go, and the whole greaving process is a two year plan, so there won't be much exposition, right?

It's a red herring, right?

When he has grown he has never been seen in a trenchcoat. Although, they all have been on phones or using com devices throughout - hmmmmmm.

Is there an anti-atom?
 
 
Benny the Ball
22:10 / 10.11.04
Also, the whole hero thing gone bad is a bit tired. Bat's would have none of it.
 
 
Benny the Ball
22:10 / 10.11.04
It's obviously the Ultimates Hank Pym, as Antman.
 
 
rabideyemovement
05:13 / 11.11.04
I'm still hoping the killer will be Atom's ex-wife...
 
 
FinderWolf
13:03 / 11.11.04
The DCU doesn't need another major classic DC character gone psycho murderer (*cough HalJordan cough*) Hardly an original idea if it's not a red herring w/Ray Palmer...
 
 
diz
13:06 / 11.11.04
Green Arrow rationalizes to FLASH that BATMAN would've done the same thing...

i need to re-read that, because it sounded to me like GA was saying that Batman actually had done the same thing. like the DCU is just full of heroes covertly mind-wiping each other. it's a party game they play.
 
 
vajramukti
14:55 / 11.11.04

the killer arrainged for boomer to die either because he/she hates him, or to shut him up. taking the fall doesn't cut it, because the note and the gun are left hanging. his son has superspeed, which implies that boomer has mindswapped with barry at some point to shag the golden glider, or whoever. which means boomer knows who has access to mindswapping ability.

the atom thing must be a red herring. there is no plausable motive. there are millions of ways to rescue your ex that don't involve multiple murder. someone is mind swapping ray or using his belt. the fact that he keeps reiterating how dangerous even the joke villians are is the hint.
light is smiling because he remembered something. he gets his revenge without doing anything. he's still a coward after all. the irony here is, by fucking with his head they erased his memory of who the killer is. now he knows. that's why he's smiling. something to do with mind swapping.

then there's this thing with bolt at the start. why does he get shot? because he isn't expecting the guns to be there. why not? because the calculator told him it wasn't a sure thing. this is juxtaposed with sue's death. is this a litteral clue or a metaphorical clue? there is an unexpected 'gun' in the murder scene? ray's belt of course. did someone tip these goons off the same way the killer tipped jack drake off? must be. someone trying to shut bolt up, or steal luthor's armour.
who benefits from killing sue? who benefits from terrifying the hero community? who benefits from shutting boomer and bolt up?

then we have all this knowledge. who knows the secret id's of all the heroes? ralph and ray are both public, but supes and batman are supposedly airtight. anyone who had done a mind swap and remembers it will know who the heroes are. but if that were so, then the heroes would know to mind wipe him/her. who has access to all this equipment?

hmm
 
 
_Boboss
14:59 / 11.11.04
i really like this thread. not wishing to sound sniffy or anything, but i'm amazed some of you are patient enough to still be reading it. it sounds....


GREAT!
 
 
Simplist
15:18 / 11.11.04
I remain committed to the Jean theory. She had ready access to Ray's belt for many years, and the best of all motives, that being...er...ah...revenge, yeah, that's it! For something, no doubt.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:06 / 11.11.04
Found this on a message board:

-----

i did a little bit of research and found at the http://www.dcuguide.com/MiniWho/As.php that there was a third Atom - here is what it says about him.

ATOM III [Adam Cray]

First Appearance: Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #44 (August 1990)

When the second Atom needed to disappear for a while, he gave government agent Adam Cray the equipment needed to shrink to near-microscopic size. Cray joined the Suicide Squad where he served for a few missions before being killed by a shrunken villain who thought he was Ray Palmer.

i think that maybe this has to do with what is going on, maybe Adam Cray is back. maybe he swapped minds with Ray.
I am still trying to figure out alot of things. but i think that it is the Suicide Squad with the Calculator and Luthor helping along with "The Atom"
-----
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:24 / 11.11.04
Shit.

I did a little checking, hoping to find some evidence of Palmer's innocence (apparently, "no motive at all" isn't good enough...)
I didn't find any. I found something that could be used to prove it was him. Sort of...
Issue 1, after Sue dies. Atom is late meeting his wife. Then, his JLA signal device goes off. GA says: "Ray, where the hell are you?"
Next line is the Atom to Jean: "I-It's Sue. She's dead."

Theoretically, Ray said that before Ollie told him.

Course, there's still no motive at all. Erge.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
20:25 / 11.11.04
I'm kinda lost in all this (non-DC person here) but on another board someone mentioned how they loved all the Suicide Squad references (albeit very vague) towards the end of issue #6.
That could be the connection....
Although apparently he's very, VERY dead.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:17 / 11.11.04
V,

While I agree that this issue re: Ray Palmer seems like a red herring, it may well be that the real red herring is the assumption that the original red herring is in fact a red herring, when it actually isn't.

Agatha Christie used to do this all the time.
 
 
Krug
02:35 / 12.11.04
Crappy for many reasons.

1. The suggestion "we mindwipe each other all the time."

2. "I've got you" moment with Robin which semmed like a ripoff what Rucka did with Batman/Gordon at the end of NML. That worked, this didn't. It also worked better with a great Punisher story Ennis did early on the previous volume. "Do not Fall in New York City", either in 6 or 7.

3. Atom's the killer? Blech.

4. More uninteresting Green Arrow sequences.

5. Whatever happened to the promised Lois Lane "you're next" sequence?
 
 
gridley
15:10 / 12.11.04
The key to what's going on is on the last page. The Atom's facial expression is the exact same expression that Dr. Light has on his face eariler in the issue. Jean even calls attention to it right before Atom reaches for the.... wait for it... LIGHT SWITCH!

So, Dr. Light is controlling the Atom, possibly others. The Flash getting a burst of Light's memories also suggests some new(?) mind control power. Was Sue on the phone right before she died? Atom travels by phone...
 
 
FinderWolf
17:40 / 12.11.04
That's a great theory. That might really be it, in all seriousness.
 
 
vajramukti
17:48 / 12.11.04
the only problem with that is, light was a complete moron until after the first murder. and a coward besides.

my call is jean loring, with the whole thing a scheme to screw ray over for all eternity. she's always been a crazy scag from the year dot. don't tell me after ray saves her one more time, that it's all good.
 
 
Triplets
21:41 / 12.11.04


Watch out, Raven! You're going to get raperised!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:36 / 13.11.04
B-but, V, she's got a succesful career as a lawyer and everything. There's no possible reason wny she'd hate the world enough to do something like that.
 
 
vajramukti
03:12 / 13.11.04
i posted this first on millar world, but that lot are thick as two planks, i'm telling you....



firstly, it's physically impossible for ray to have attacked jean in issue 3-4

why? if you reread those issues closely, you see the struggle off screen in jean's house. we see the phone richochet off the wall, we hear her calling for help, and when we see the phone next, ray has been on the other end for 33 seconds, and jean is still struggling. the phone is front and center of the frame for a reason.

also, we do not actually see the killer at all. not like in issue one. we see a pair of hands gagging jean, but these could very easily be her own hands. the single frame in issue 4 of the killer behind the door is not in context, but rather mr miracle describing jean's story to the others. and it's not possible for it to be true.

she comes in the door. killer jumps her right there and blindfolds her, according to jean.

then at some point she speed dials ray, and starts calling for help. BLINDFOLDED. this is how she claims not to have seen anything besides the boots.

she's lying. which leaves the question: who has access to a shrinking belt besides ray?

upon further consideration, I think the only thing that makes sense is jean loves ray and wants him back, but feels like she screwed him over too terribly for him to accept her without a really extreme circumstance.

she's always suprised to find out how much he still loves her. she cheated on him, divorced him, stole half his patents, and drove him into the jungle to get away from her.

but i think at some point she realised, like ray already knows, that they are the love of each others lives. they're just two really desperately lonely people who don't know how to talk to each other. he's the godless physicst, and she's the hardcore lawyer. neither is able to deal with emotions very well. the pressures of the superhero life screwed them both up. that's in keeping with the whole theme of the series so far. a baroque revenge plot wouldn't be.

why did she kill sue? partly as a catalyst to get ray back and partly jelousy. sue and ralph are the happy couple. the model couple who got closer, not farther apart, like ray and jean. in the face of everything they stuck it out. she's terrorising all the heroes and threatening their spouses to get ray back. the tragic part of all this i think is that all she had to do was ask. she wants to go back to the 'good old days' and forget all the grim eighties stuff they went though, but it's too late. she's snapped under the pressure. maybe sue told jean she was pregnant, and that's what put her over the edge.

all of this would be in keeping with meltzer's tone so far. really heartbreaking stuff if it's true.
 
 
Krug
23:02 / 13.11.04
Excellent theory, I dunno I was hoping for a good ending to this bad book but this seems a lot better than the Atom being the killer.

Still we'll have to wait and see.

I think it goes without saying that this thread was infinitely more entertaining than the actual comic.

The best things in life are free after all.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:29 / 14.11.04
I would love for the final issue to be surprisingly brilliant and explain everything wonderfully, a sudden upsurge in quality compared to the previous issues.

I *doubt* that will happen, but wouldn't it be nice...?

The 'Jean did it' theory is pretty good, I must say -- but so is the Light theory...
 
 
Benny the Ball
11:45 / 14.11.04
Why does the Green Arrow seem to be the main voice of the book, or am I miss-remembering this?

He seems to be a little too dominant in the earlier issues definately, so maybe we should be looking at people around him, some of his crap villains or something, for some clues.
 
 
rabideyemovement
18:38 / 14.11.04
I think the final issue will be great. I've really enjoyed this series. I've figured out how it's gonna end, but I wouldn't wanna spoil it for anyone. Look at issue 3, page 20, panel 3 with Dr. Light regaining his memory... Using a bit of logic, you should be able to figure out the entire mystery from this one panel...
 
 
Benny the Ball
22:30 / 14.11.04
I obviously lack your deductive skills, or I can't count - what am I looking for?

Also, I have no problems with spoilers, I live for spoilers - spoil it for me, PM if you have to, I don't care. Honest!
 
 
rabideyemovement
01:06 / 15.11.04
SPOILERS...............................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Look closely at that panel where they are all taking down Dr. Light... Do you see the Atom? No, he's the only one missing from the picture... because he is the one viewing it. And if Light was watching, he wouldn't be seeing himself. Dr. Light screams, "I remember now... You took my mind!!!" as he flashes light and escapes. The Flash got a good look at his light show and saw Arthur Light's memory of that night. Zatanna must have done the spell for a mind switch instead of a swipe... And I don't think either of them realized until very recently. Maybe the Atom has been split (pardon pun). Maybe they're minds are kind of mixed.
With Atom and Dr. Light doing a freaky friday, The murders are fully explained with not-so-Atom as the culprit and Doc Light-oh-yeah-i'm-a-hero as the one sending the notes and gun to protect his friends...
And look at the last panel of issue 6... The Atom flips a light switch. Get it? Atom, Light, switch?
Or try rereading them looking for the red and blue motif in the backgrounds. Once you see it, there are tons of clues.
I'm guessing they keep showing us Light's gun in the trophy room because Light is meant to take down Imposter Atom (remembering that in the fight with Deathstroke, the Atom was taken out with a laser pointer.
I don't think they plan to resolve Boomerang Jr's origin, but hopefully they can still find time to kill off Jimmy Olsen or something...
 
 
Simplist
02:10 / 15.11.04
I dunno. I read something like that on another board (they're going way over the top with the mind-switch theories over at Millarworld), and I won't be surprised if some mindswitching does turn out to have taken place; but if so I doubt it will end up having anything directly to do with the murders. As I said, I remain perhaps irrationally committed to the Jean theory I outlined in the second post on page 6 of this thread. You must admit, I did turn out to be roughly correct about Batman...
 
 
gridley
12:51 / 15.11.04
I don't buy the Jean theory, mostly because the motive seems hinky. She kills her friend because she's jealous of her friend's successful marriage? For all I know, such things happen in real life all the time, but in print it'll look silly and misogynistic.
 
 
gridley
12:56 / 15.11.04
Ok, forgot what series I was talking about. Make that EVEN MORE silly and misogynistic....
 
 
FinderWolf
14:05 / 15.11.04
And who WAS the super-speedster mother of Boomerang Jr.? The only female speedster I can think of is Jessie Quick, right...?
 
 
rabideyemovement
14:56 / 15.11.04
I'm thinking Boomerang may have been mindswitched with the Flash and knocked up Iris, but I think Meltzer set this up to be resolved in Geoff John's Flash later... I'm certain I'm right about the Light/Atom theory. It fully explains the murders and the Suicide Squad clues. And I think Wally will figure it out before the Batman does.
 
 
rabideyemovement
15:02 / 15.11.04
And if you don't buy that, here's a list of lady speedsters... http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/ladies.html#joanieswift
 
 
vajramukti
15:25 / 15.11.04


i think it's entirely possible, even likely, that the last page of #6 is a double bind. jean is the killer, but light has also switched with ray. he tries to rape her, and she shoots him with the crossbow. ray dies, and everyone thinks he's the killer. or something...
 
 
gridley
17:19 / 15.11.04
I belive they said that the speedster in question was Golden Glider, a former Flash villain.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:26 / 15.11.04
yeah, but she doesn't have speed powers, I don't think. She's just hot and glides around on skates and robs banks...right? That was why Boomerang says "OK, so who's my REAL mother, couldn't have been Golden Glider, right Dad?"
 
  

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