BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


DC: Identity Crisis

 
  

Page: 12(3)45678... 11

 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:18 / 23.07.04
Re: That first cover - Superman's solitary tear...so moving. A God weeps.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:14 / 23.07.04
The cover to issue 1 is really cheesy. Isn't it weird how most artists and/or colorists can't get a realistic looking tear to appear on comic character's cheeks?

>> It's obvious to me what's going to happen. Sue Dibney's the new Spectre. Hal Jordan's gotta come back for his big relanch, and who better to be the spirit of vengence than Sue now that she's been defiled by Dr. Light and Brad Meltzer.

It's so crazy it just might work!!

And boy, Zatanna's 70s costume is reaaaally ugly & strange.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:42 / 23.07.04
Interestingly, despite the events of Identity Crisis, it seems like the sequel to FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE might indeed get published after all, under a 'formerly untold tales/rotating story arc & creators' new JLA title:

From Newsarama:

>> Carlin said it was possible that writer Gail Simone's JLA arc with legend Jose Garcia-Lopez may be folded into that series, as well as the "I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League" mini-series, of which artist Kevin Maguire has completed three issues.
 
 
gridley
14:22 / 26.07.04
And boy, Zatanna's 70s costume is reaaaally ugly & strange.

Actually, that's her 80s costume. In the 70s, she was mostly wearing the fishnets and tuxedo outfit. Just be glad you missed the version of her mother's outfit that she wore in between those (like 79-81 maybe).

I just can't understand how they possibly thought they could improve on the fishnets.....
 
 
FinderWolf
13:42 / 28.07.04
Formerly Known As The Justice League just won an Eisner for Best Humor Publication, so we can all bet that DC will indeed put it out in the "untold tales of JLA" series coming out soon.
 
 
Simplist
15:40 / 28.07.04
The Morrison lets his opinion be known in his usual cheeky way while speaking about JLA: Classified:

Aquaman has no beard and John Stewart is Green Lantern so it's pretty much set in some kind of current continuity but I’m afraid it's not the gloomy 'adult' world of Sue Dibny's shredded lycra pants so keep well away if it's attempted rape you crave. Cannibalism, yes, rape, no. My DCU is a day-glo, non-stop funhouse, where the world is threatened every five minutes and godlike beings clash in the skies like fireworks.

God bless you, George...
 
 
_Boboss
15:55 / 28.07.04
'we get to see batman's science-fiction closet'

oh dear god.

and with that, the universe perfects itself.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:30 / 28.07.04
But what about his chest. His hairy fucking chest!

(Boboss, return my Ra's Al Ghul collection or suffer the consequences)
 
 
Spaniel
17:45 / 28.07.04
As soon as Runce removes all his shit from my bedroom (woo hoo - next week! Next week!).

At the moment I can't even reach the comic shelf.

Loved Grant's little dig.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:35 / 05.08.04
Warren Ellis chimes in on Identity Crisis from his streaming-column-whatever it's called:

>> [IDENTITY CRISIS]

Sadly, I only just got to read #2 -- it having only just turned up in the complimentary comics package we fondly refer to as The DC Big Box'O Shite -- and I fear that all the good jokes have already been made.

Thanks to the creators, though, for showing us that you can spot a rapist by the way he sticks his tongue out a lot. And for illustrating that generic superhero comics are just too weak a thing to successfully hold some ideas.

That noise you hear, of course, is the wheel being turned back to the days when a superhero, stood with his legs eight feel apart and hurling some poor bastard through a wall, yelled "I am GAY!"

Have you noticed how online comics fans have decided it's okay to like Dan Clowes now he's done a superhero comic?

(And if you liked that, I'd recommend the superior novel by Chuck Palahniuk on a similar theme, LULLABY.)

--------
 
 
John Octave
18:40 / 05.08.04
I picked up the first two issues of this. It rather reminds me of Billy Friday from Alan Moore's SUPREME comics. A British comic writer who took an unsettling amount of glee discussing how in the next issue of "Omniman," that Omniman's dog would be raped and murdered, and the undersea kingdom of Poseidonis would succumb to mercury poisoning and such.

Anyway, the thing I find most troubling about IDENTITY CRISIS is that Brad Meltzer is clearly a huge fan of the characters he's using and has always wanted to write them, which makes it a wee bit disturbing that the first thing he does when he gets his hands on the lot of them is to involve a longtime supporting character in a rape/murder scenario.

It's a great parody of WATCHMEN until you find out that it's not a parody of WATCHMEN.
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:45 / 05.08.04
So.. what next? In issue 3 we find out that she contracted AIDS from the rape and only Ralph's powers have kept him safe... or maybe not.

 
 
FinderWolf
19:08 / 05.08.04
The one thing I keep thinking is that Meltzer wanted to write the big guns and DC editorial came to him saying "Here's your chance to write a big deal miniseries with the big DC characters -- it has to be about the death of Sue Dibny." (He's never said that rape was part of the deal when DC approached him with the concept of killing the character, who knows about that aspect of it). And maybe he was so excited to write a big deal DC thing that he just took it even though maybe deep down he would rather not have killed and raped Sue Dibny. Who knows whose idea it was that she be pregnant to boot....

I'm making a lot of justifications for Melzter, though, aren't I?

One argument that's been put forth on the Net is that Melzter's wife works with rape victims in a crisis shelter, so he couldn't be exploitative about it. Unfortunately, I don't think that holds much water given the trend in comics towards killing/raping the girlfriends/wives.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:09 / 05.08.04
And now I look at my first post and thread summary saying how good IC is and I crinnngee... ah well, first impressions without having put any thought into it and all that...
 
 
John Octave
19:34 / 05.08.04
I dunno, I find it hard to believe that DC editorial would, like, DEMAND that Sue Dibny be killed off in the event, but it could very well be.

Another thing I read that bugs me is a quote from Rags Morales talking about the whole rape scene in #2:

"And by putting Flash in the background, the legacy of Barry Allen, and basically phasing out his expression, it's almost like we're not only just lobotomizing Dr. Light, we're also lobotomizing the whole idea of heroism at this point."

Do we really want "lobotomizing heroism" from a company that makes, you know, superhero comics?
 
 
FinderWolf
19:47 / 05.08.04
Melzter said in multiple interviews, the main one with Newsrama, that DC approached him and wanted him to write a big deal story killing a certain character - he specified that character was Sue Dibny.

Editors approach writers with plots & stories often - "We've created this story, we just need to find someone to actually write it fully."
 
 
Haus of Mystery
20:07 / 05.08.04
Picture the scene: A smoky board-room. Around a large table sit a group of identical shadowy 'editors', furiously chain smoking cigars. In front of them is a list of C grade characters names. At the bottom in red pen the words 'RAPE AND/OR MURDER'. And next to this a graph with projected sales figures.

Yeeesh.
 
 
CameronStewart
21:35 / 05.08.04
>>>So.. what next? In issue 3 we find out that she contracted AIDS from the rape<<<

Didn't I already make that joke on page 2?

 
 
Mr Tricks
21:57 / 05.08.04
opps sorry CAM...
 
 
fluid_state
13:16 / 06.08.04
If anybody here actually keeps up with this series, I have a feeling that this sort of prescient horror humour will become pretty frequent.

A couple things come to mind, though, reading the thread. If DC editorial really wanted to make a compelling, lasting story about the dark side of adolescent wish-fulfillment, why not just kill Lana Lang? The prospect of Superman dealing with this subject would resonate far more effectively. Which gaggle of idiots thought it would be a good idea to add yet another grim, driven, scarred hero to a pantheon of emotional retards?

And Rags Morales "lobotomizing heroism" may be the most spot-on quote I've heard regarding this series (or, say, most big-company 90's comics).
 
 
diz
13:38 / 06.08.04
One argument that's been put forth on the Net is that Melzter's wife works with rape victims in a crisis shelter, so he couldn't be exploitative about it.

that sort of strikes me as the equivalent of someone saying "i can't be racist, because i have black friends."
 
 
The Falcon
13:40 / 06.08.04
Y'know it's fine and dandy for Ellis to recommend whoahh... cutting edge lit like Palahniuk, but where was the uproar over Coach's attempted rape of U-Go Girl in X-Force #120?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:26 / 06.08.04
I agree about Palameork, but I think you're forgetting the important thing, D.

Superman's solitary tear...so moving. A God weeps.

A GOD WEEPS. Yes.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:36 / 12.08.04
OK, issue 3 marked me officially not paying money for this book anymore. I'll just read/skim it in the store. The mystery villain(s) kill The Atom's ex-wife in the latest issue, as it becomes clear that whoever it is is going after the wives and friends of the heroes. There's a big fight with Deathstroke which is ok, there's one clever idea referring to an old Silver Age story where the heroes swapped bodies with the villians (and the villains take pictures of the heroes with their masks off for fun & info.). That's it. And it ends the murder of Ray's ex-wife. Yuck.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:36 / 12.08.04
and sorry, I can never remember how to spell 'villain' right.
 
 
diz
17:07 / 12.08.04
OK, issue 3 marked me officially not paying money for this book anymore. I'll just read/skim it in the store. The mystery villain(s) kill The Atom's ex-wife in the latest issue, as it becomes clear that whoever it is is going after the wives and friends of the heroes. There's a big fight with Deathstroke which is ok, there's one clever idea referring to an old Silver Age story where the heroes swapped bodies with the villians (and the villains take pictures of the heroes with their masks off for fun & info.). That's it. And it ends the murder of Ray's ex-wife. Yuck.

you forgot one major detail: not only has all the mindwiping been going on for years, it implies that Superman knows about it, and chooses to pretend that he doesn't.

all else aside, that's wildly out of character for Big Blue.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:13 / 12.08.04
Yep, thanks for adding that. Just another reason this story is careening even more wildly out of quality control.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
12:52 / 13.08.04
I'm reading this book for about the same reason I read Chuck Austin's X-Men while George was doing the real book. A good train wrec amuses me, in some sick perverse kind of way. Notes on this iss-
1. I liked the Deathstroke fight. Until he took on GL, and then it got stupid. But I enjoyed the old JL get there asses handed to them by a freakin Titans villian (and lets face it, the Jr. Justice League has never been considered the Big Leagues in the DC Universe).
2. Decent move with the Silver Age mind wiping. I always hated the fact that the villians did shit like that and somehow never took off the masks or anything.
3. Atom's wife- could we get any more predictable?
4. Now Dr. Light knows. Okay... whatever. How? And was that flashback supposed to be right before they chewed about his mind? Because I think I saw Bats in that panel, and Bats wasn't there in Issue 2.
5. Where is Batman? Dammit!!!
 
 
FinderWolf
12:55 / 13.08.04
I agree that the Deathstroke fight was good until the GL ring thing. The ring is made to respond to Kyle's will, not just any dude who walks up to Kyle with strong willpower and tries to take over the ring.

I'm sure we'll see where Bats is in all this soon enough.
 
 
osymandus
13:01 / 13.08.04
The rings also supposed to automaticly protect the user and act as a universal translator oh and speak as well !

The Flash bit sucked the most for me ,last offical spec of flashies powers states at normal speeds his as dense as a brick wall , so wouldnt the sword have broken ? Also how did the flash stop dead like that , would have been funnier for an out of control flash to splat him and Deathstroke into the building opposie

Nice idea with the arrow !
 
 
diz
14:20 / 13.08.04
as much as i like seeing really smart guys with no powers take down really powerful guys (see, like, every Batman vs Superman fight ever), the Deathstroke fight was lame.

OK, i'm going to be a fanboy for a second here:

first of all, it's almost impossible to overstate how fast the Flash is, and so you kind of have to look at time and the sequence of events very critically here. Deathstroke shows up, words are exchanged. Wally goes to whoop his ass, and i think i'd be generous if i said that he had to cover about 50-60 feet of open terrain to get there. here's what happens in the time it takes the Flash to get to Slade:

- photons bouncing off Flash's body travel the distance Flash himself is trying to cover and hit Slade's eye
- receptor cells in Slade's eye fire a signal down Slade's optic nerve
- Slade super-brain (and don't even get me started on that whole "normal people only use 10% of their brain" nonsense) processes the incoming signal and Slade realizes that the Flash has started moving.

by now, the Flash should pretty much be all up in Slade's face, and commencing to beat on him like a red-headed stepchild. but no, he's still trying to cover 50 feet of open terrain. we go on:

- Slade's brain sends a signal to Slade's hand.
- Slade's hand pulls out the detonator thing.
- Slade's thumb presses the button.

Wally is still not there. what, did he go get lunch or something? that's kind of insensitive considering he's supposed to be going after the guy he thinks butt-banged Sue Dibny and set her on fire. come on, man, quit slacking.

- The detonator triggers a signal, which is presumably some kind of wireless transmission.
- The wireless signals reach the charges scattered all over the place.
- the charges receive the signal, and the chemical reaction in the explosives starts.

OK, so now Wally has to dodge all the bombs going off, but he should have been there well before that was even an issue.

let's pretend Slade had a gun, instead of a detonator for a bunch of bombs (it's about the same level of complexity of action), and that Slade decided to act first, instead of waiting for Flash to move and then reacting to him. if you were going to say that Slade had time to spontaneously pull a gun without warning, aim it at Green Arrow, pull the trigger, and shoot Green Arrow in the head before Flash had time to get across the street to knock the gun out of his hand, that would be stretching credibility to the breaking point, and to go even further and say that Slade would have time to do all that as a reaction to Flash moving first would be absurd.

OK, so, basically, Slade should have been taken down before he even had a chance to hit his detonator button. but let's pretend that didn't happen.

let's move on. the Atom. the Atom has shrunken to the size where he is smaller than the individual photons Slade uses to knock him around, but Slade sees him with the naked eye. WTF?!? yes, he has "really good eyesight," i know, but how exactly does that let him see something smaller than a photon? i never read any Teen Titans, i will freely admit, but i wasn't under the impression that Slade had Clark-level supersenses. seeing something smaller than the basic unit the eye uses to detect stuff should be impossible, and if he can do that, he's a lot more powerful than i thought.

i had to laugh to see Deathstroke looking around in front of him, asking the Atom where he is. at the scale that he'd have to be working on to see Atom, the space that he's searching is unimaginably vast, but he's just casually glancing around like it's no big deal. it's just stupid.

finally, GL. so... Deathstroke is a deadly hand-to-hand fighter, right? like in the realm of people like Batman and Lady Shiva, right? Kyle, for all his many wonderful qualities, is not, right? but he does have a FUCKING GREEN LANTERN RING. which, you know, shoots rays and makes force fields and which Kyle uses to build all kinds of imaginative things out of green energy. Kyle could, easily, do something, like, say, make a big freaking cartoon hand and have it pick up Slade like a ragdoll and suspend him in midair with his arms pinned to his sides until he said "uncle." or just trap him in a big force field. or something. anything. all things being equal, in straight-up one on one combat, Deathstroke vs. GL should be a non-starter.

so what does Kyle do? put a little force field around himself and close in for hand-to hand combat. has he been taking stupid pills? this allows him to get stuck in a pointless wrestling match for the stupid ring, which may be the most powerful weapon in existence, but only if you freaking use it.

it's the most frustratingly stupid, poorly-written part of the scene - the hero is fighting to stop a villain from taking something because it's so powerful, but the fact that it's so powerful means that the fight should have been over before it started. it's like "hey, i have a GL ring, which i know is important and powerful, but, gosh, i just couldn't tell you why, since i don't seem to know what it does."

shit. just shit.
 
 
diz
14:39 / 13.08.04
let me add something: i'm all for playing fast and light with reason and logic in the service of fun, and i'm all down with the joycore goofy superhero conventions.

however, if you're going to wear your commitment to quote-unquote "gritty realism" like a badge of honor, you do not then get to play the "hey, it's just a funnybook! lighten up!" card. you don't get to have it both ways so you can excuse yourself from criticism of your own lazy writing.

on a related note, i'm kind of starting to think that "gritty" and "realism" may be something of an oxymoron in the way that comics use "gritty." "realism" means "things seem realistic." it doesn't mean "horrible things happen all the time, to everyone, for no particular reason and without any kind of respite." yes, in the real world people get raped and murdered, and people can be cynical and harsh, etc etc etc. but that's not all that happens, to everyone, all the time. i don't come home from work to find my girlfriend's been raped and murdered very often, and neither does anyone i know. most cities have street crime, but every dark alley does not have a bunch of thugs shaking someone down every night. lots of people come from abusive backgrounds, but lots of people also come from perfectly normal, stable, happy families.

god, if you all you ever read were comics, you would think the world is just a seething hellhole of crime and abuse and so on and so forth. that's not realism: that's some twisted kind of masochistic reactionary melodrama.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:52 / 13.08.04
"god, if you all you ever read were comics, you would think the world is just a seething hellhole of crime and abuse and so on and so forth. that's not realism: that's some twisted kind of masochistic reactionary melodrama."

Obviously you've never been to MY world Diiz.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:52 / 13.08.04
>> however, if you're going to wear your commitment to quote-unquote "gritty realism" like a badge of honor, you do not then get to play the "hey, it's just a funnybook! lighten up!" card. you don't get to have it both ways so you can excuse yourself from criticism of your own lazy writing.

Well said. I also like your distinction between "realism" and "gritty," and that something doesn't need to be "gritty" (i.e. dark and negative, depressing, messed-up, psychologically twisted) to be "real."

Like I said, I paid for the first two issues and this was the first issue where I read it and said 'Nope, not getting my dollar. I'll just read you in the store from now on until you clean up your act, if that's even possible after what you've started, young man.' I showed that comic, yes I did.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
16:01 / 13.08.04
See, and I just decided to ignore the Flash things impossiblity, on the premise that Wally wasn't having a great day, and he does have some past history with Slade, so maybe he was off his game (which didn't really make sense to me either, but I just went with it). The Atom thing bugged me though. No human has subatomic vision. I don't care who you are. But, again, maybe Atom wasn't quite subatomic when Slade caught him, I told myself (Again, didn't really believe it, but this book has a whole "I supposedly love the Silver Age" feel to it, and so I ignored it). But even in the sworld of the Silver Age, the GL thing would NEVER happen. NEVER!!!!

Oh, and the fact that Deathstroke didn't kill anyone. What was up with that? He obviously could have axed GA, Hawkman, Black Canary, maybe even Zatanna. And he doesn't. He's a hired killer. Who didn't kill anyone. Grumble.
 
  

Page: 12(3)45678... 11

 
  
Add Your Reply