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DC: Identity Crisis

 
  

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Warewullf
21:53 / 13.08.04
I'm just glad he restrained himself with the bad-guys-taking-photos-in-the-heroes-bodies things. Maybe I've read too much Millar, but I was half expecting there to be some Supes-and-Bats-in-compromising-positions-with-each-other photos being taken...
 
 
lukabeast
02:45 / 14.08.04
"Oh, and the fact that Deathstroke didn't kill anyone. What was up with that? He obviously could have axed GA, Hawkman, Black Canary, maybe even Zatanna. And he doesn't. He's a hired killer. Who didn't kill anyone. Grumble."

He must've been a member of "The A Team" in 'Nam, they couldn't seem to hit anybody no matter how many bullets they shot. I pity the fool who uses super speed.
 
 
Eskay Doss
07:10 / 14.08.04
Time to say something positive! Rags Morales is doing a pretty good job. Love his Green Arrow, and his Deathstroke is way cool too.

The story just keeps getting worse though. Very mean spirited and not too smart either, in a way that taints many of dc's best heroes and pisses all over some great characters and future fun that could be had with them. The basic premise is seriously flawed and there's no way to resolve this now without fucking up dozens of characters in a 1980's grim 'n gritty kind of way. Let's start a petition to make this an ELSEWORLDS story! Better still, maybe we can have this be the flagship title of a new dc imprint : OCTOclit - violent and demeaning pseudoporn for all ages featuring your favorite dc characters!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:46 / 14.08.04
diiz nutz i don't come home from work to find my girlfriend's been raped and murdered very often,

Sorry, I'm just amazed to find out that diiz OCCASIONALLY finds his girlfriend raped and murdered. She must be a saint to stay with you if she has to put up with that... < runs away giggling >
 
 
Simplist
16:20 / 14.08.04
You know, this book just keeps getting worse and worse; bad writing, bad plotting, bad character usage, just bad all around. And yet I keep buying it. It's got that real car-crash quality, you know? Also I can't help suspecting, despite the rather obvious problems with the book, that it actually will end up being considered one of the more "important" books of the next several years (though I don't imagine it will retain its reputation in the longer term).
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:10 / 14.08.04
There is a part of this story that I really like..kind of like how even a horrid movie can have a good peformance or a good line in it.

The idea that the villains have come up with their own version of Oracle, and it's a failed super-villain who is now using his powers in a way that gives him money at little to no risk.

The rest of the story feels a lot like what they tried doing to a lot of characters in the early 90's...grafting things onto them that really don't fit. Taking a light, plot based character and adding a horrific background to it doesn't strike me as good writing so much as "I have a story and I'm going to wedge these characters into it whether they like it or not." There is also an element of "Well, we had all of these goofball villains that now we want to make into bad ass mother-fuckers who have been held down for years!"

It doesn't work for me. Thankfully, with hypertime, I can personally put it out of my head when I read other comics...or just remember that it's all fiction and no one is forcing me to read it.

I did like Joe Quesada's line at ChicagoCon this week wne someone asked if they were going to kill Antman again (since he was killed in an issue of Alias and in Avengers #500): "Yes. We're going to kill him in every issue, and then we'll have Dr. Light rape him."
 
 
fluid_state
07:47 / 15.08.04
... with chains.
 
 
diz
19:30 / 15.08.04
Sorry, I'm just amazed to find out that diiz OCCASIONALLY finds his girlfriend raped and murdered. She must be a saint to stay with you if she has to put up with that...

well, she understands that i'm a hard man with a troubled past, and those demons just come back to haunt me by hurting the ones i love. you know how it is, i'm sure. you'll have to excuse me, now, though, i've got some brooding scheduled and my cape has just come out of the dryer.

The idea that the villains have come up with their own version of Oracle, and it's a failed super-villain who is now using his powers in a way that gives him money at little to no risk.

total agreement. i love the Calculator-as-bad-Oracle shtick. and, frankly, i'm kind of curious about the c-list villain subplot overall. it's the best part of the book.

so.... who do you think's going to be the next victim of the supporting character rape and killing spree? my bet's on Tim's dad.
 
 
matsya
05:31 / 16.08.04
hey, has meltzer been interviewed at all about the negative response to Identity Crisis?

m.
 
 
diz
06:35 / 16.08.04
i don't know that the response has been overwhelmingly negative. i think most of the response i've seen outside of here has been very, very positive, and so i think they're writing off any negative response as a positive sign that they're doing something controversial and edgy and they're stirring up a strong emotional response.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
13:01 / 16.08.04
Okay, I know I keep coming back to this, but it bugs me, and it almost makes me think Metzler thinks he knows what he's doing. After Dr. Light rapes Sue, there's a panel with all the heroes ganging up on him in rage, right? Hold that page. Now switch to issue three, after Deathstroke has his eyepatch stabbed, all the heroes ganging up on him, and Dr. Light flashbacks to that moment in issue two. It's the exact same picture, except Batman's there!!! What the Hell?

Comments and thoughts, anyone?
 
 
Simplist
18:13 / 16.08.04
It's obviously some kind of plot point rather than an error, as it's not the same scene redrawn with an accidental addition, it's the very same drawing with Batman pasted into a spot that was clearly designed for him in the original layout. I suppose we're to understand that Batman was in fact there, but that narrator Green Arrow doesn't remember him being there; perhaps Batman somehow tampered with the other heroes' minds, erasing his involvement in the whole fiasco? It would be drastically out of character, certainly, but well in keeping with the general quality level of this series so far.
 
 
matsya
23:56 / 16.08.04
okay, yeah, maybe, but has anyone actually seen meltzer justifying his use of rape in the storyline?

m.
 
 
diz
04:51 / 17.08.04
i think DC has said that it was inevitable that someone would go there, and that it wasn't realistic that supervillains would kill, maim, rob, steal, etc, but not rape.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:59 / 17.08.04
The solicits for the final issue say stuff like "Batman has been on the case from the beginning - now it's time for him to prove he's the world's greatest detective!" So all those who are wondering "Where is Bats in all this?" can rest easy. As for Bats' appearance in Dr. Light's memory, I'm sure it's a plot point somehow.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
14:34 / 17.08.04
So, who's up for taking bets for how Bat's erased GA's memory? My money's on Bat's secretly killing all these people, as a way for geting revenge for his parnet's deaths. See, Bat's discovered that his parents weren't murdered by Joe Chill, Jack Napier, or freakin' Metallo after all! Although he remembered a man, it was actually a collection of women. After reviewing the profiles of them, he realized that they all went o n to marry superheroes! You see, a secret society had risen up designed to undermine the superhero community from within. For years, they've been wifes and girlfriends, pretending to love them, but holding a secret hatred all along! Now, Bats is taking care of them once and for all, allong with erasing the memories of all the key characters so they never remember he killed their wives. The fact that the story is insane, out of character, and incoherant means nothing.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:25 / 17.08.04
yeeeess...I see it now...

The Secret Society of Super-Villainesses-Turned-Superhero-Wives-and-Girlfriends. We must destroy them ALL!
 
 
matsya
01:45 / 18.08.04
and "it was inevitable" is enough for everyone to just go "oh, yeah okay fine then". I mean, unless that Joe Quesada thing is a joke, it sounds like some people in the "industry" are a bit miffed - the Giffen thing, the George Morrison having a swipe... what I'm interested in is if Meltzer's got any comeback to this, or if he's just lalalala not listening...

m.
 
 
Triplets
01:49 / 18.08.04
It'll be Tim's dad, but you can bet he won't be killed OR raped. He hasn't got tits, y'see.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
04:43 / 18.08.04
I would bet that Tim's dad dies in the big Batmnan story that just kicked off. That way he can get back in the Robin costume without all of the messy "His dad knows" stuff for the writer to deal with.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:19 / 18.08.04
It's so great when writers kill people to make it easier to write stories. And even better when there's a nationwide vote on it! Maybe Meltzer could have a vote scheme over who gets killed/raped/shot-in-the-eye next. That'd be neat.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:14 / 18.08.04
Hey, if Joss Whedon was writing it then the superheroes would all be getting back together with their wives/partners/SOs for the first time in ages before they were killed...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:15 / 18.08.04
Has there been any hint as to the reason why the series is called 'Identity Crisis' yet? I've not been reading it but it doesn't seem to have come up...
 
 
diz
12:23 / 18.08.04
I mean, unless that Joe Quesada thing is a joke, it sounds like some people in the "industry" are a bit miffed - the Giffen thing, the George Morrison having a swipe... what I'm interested in is if Meltzer's got any comeback to this, or if he's just lalalala not listening...

i don't think people are miffed (well, except for Giffen, but that's sort of different) so much as they are bitter and sarcastic and unimpressed. think about it: you've got this guy who comes in from outside the comics field to do a special crossover which is hyped to the moon and everyone is told that it's going to change the DCU, nay, comics as a medium, for-ev-ahhh. then the much-hyped outsider comes in with this sort of exploitative tripe, which sells well and has a certain segment of the fanbase "taking it seriously" despite being garbage. i think it's people who can actually write and/or recognize good writing when they see it snarking at Meltzer and also at the comics industry for taking him seriously.

I would bet that Tim's dad dies in the big Batmnan story that just kicked off.

War Games happens before Identity Crisis, so that can't happen. Tim becomes Robin again in War Games, which takes place over the course of a day or two in Gotham, and then is accordingly Robin in time for the beginning of IC. apparently, the whole time period Stephanie was Robin and War Games can be crammed into a week or so of DCU time.

It's so great when writers kill people to make it easier to write stories.

yeah! if you do it often enough, not only do you get to make a lot of dark (i.e. deep and powerful) stories, but you also get rid of those annoying "supporting casts," which just get in the way of more gritty action with all that girly "talking."
 
 
FinderWolf
13:52 / 18.08.04
I personally think Stephanie/The Spoiler/Robin IV will bite it in War Games, thus leading Tim to become Robin again, but that's neither here nor there.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:15 / 18.08.04
I entirely agree that too much 'girly talking' ruins gritty, intense stories.
If a writer does not want to kill a character, perhaps they should consider breaking their back, blinding them and/or giving them cancer. Just think of the myriad adult scenarios awaiting the adventurous writer.
 
 
_Boboss
14:26 / 18.08.04
'they should consider breaking their back'

yes. every time i look at this thread, i just think 'shadowhawk' (i feel his spine beneath my knuckles. i crush it)

has anyone put up this yet?:

http://www.the-pantheon.net/wir/

sounds like someone's got a lot of updating to do. i spec they're waiting for issue 12.
 
 
The Falcon
14:27 / 18.08.04
Why not all three simultaneously?
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:57 / 18.08.04
another opinion
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:01 / 18.08.04
Falconer you insane GENIUS! I hadn't bloody thought of that! God, just imagine the INTENSITY, the GRIT. You can all fuck off because I'm proposing this radical rethink of...erm..Jemm, Son of Saturn to DC right as we speak. Well, when I've finished typing this.
Now.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:43 / 18.08.04
Frank Miller's desire that comics should never need mature readers warning labels since books don't notwithstanding, I agree with the Movie PoopShoot writer's point that IC maybe should have some sort of Mature Readers label on it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:31 / 18.08.04
But why? There's no nudity... no sex, so far... people are being killed, but that is not exclusive to "mature readers"... the violence, with the exception of the arrow in Slade's eye, which is concealed by the eyepatch. It's purely the act of rape that makes it "mature", yes? But how do you define mature content in that sense? Does "mature readers" mean something like "PG-13"?

Then again, how many tinies are likely to want to pay premium edition rates for a comic starrring Ralph Dibney, Oliver Queen and Zatanna?
 
 
diz
20:30 / 18.08.04
i'm generally not a big fan of trying to shelter kids, but at the same time i am a fan of lots and lots of consumer information so that people can make informed decisions, and from the outside, it doesn't look like what it is. all else aside, no matter how i feel about parents who shelter their kids too much, many parents wouldn't agree with me, and would not want their kids reading this, and that's just not a good business/PR move on DC's part.

i'm also not against the sort of hard-edged superhero comics in general, nor am i even against doing rude things with established characters. though i think there are too many bad comics of this sort around right now, and not enough of other styles of book, there should always be room for things like The Ultimates or whatever. i am a little weary of our friend Gustav Morrison constantly railing against realist comics, and it sort of strikes me as a bit of a relic of 20th century avant-garde bullshit to insist that "this style is totally dead, and this style over here is ALL THAT THERE IS. everyone doing work outside of these narrow confines is OVER." i think the instinct to make totalizing statements like that is to be avoided, and that what comics need now and sorely lack is diversity.

what we need to avoid are bad, uncreative books of whatever style or genre, and we need to encourage good comics of whatever genre. what frustrates me about this book the most is that it could so easily be a good book in its genre, but it somehow ends up being an actively horrible book. Meltzer's got some good instincts, and it really shows, but Christ almighty, he's got some bad ones, too. he not only fucks up what could be really good with some work, he fucks it up in a way that really screws up a lot of other people's work. there are so many things that could have been done with Ralph and Sue, especially, which now have to be canned. it's so fucking frustrating.
 
 
Triplets
01:02 / 19.08.04
And yet, people are still buying this shit-pack. Even some Barbelithers.

Every sale convinces DC they did good on this one.

Don't.
 
 
_Boboss
10:36 / 19.08.04
shit! wow! fuck! yes!:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16709

only this time he's up against....Cutlass! great name for a villain i'm sure you'll agree. is it because he's a pirate or because he cuts lasses? only talent will tell!
 
  

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