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DC: Identity Crisis

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23:47 / 04.10.04

I flipped back through the book recently, and now I'm thinking that whole sequence with Bolt and the armor is going to turn out to be more important than it seemed at the time. It was too detail-intensive to be just a throwaway distraction. More on that if I come up with any...

16:43 / 12.10.04

Dan DiDio from a newsarama interview:

>> NRAMA: Actually, let’s go back to Identity Crisis for a second, since you mentioned it. With the acclaim it’s received, both positive and negative…
DD: Right – it’s great that it’s positive and negative too. If it’s one flavor, one answer, then it’s not striking any chords. The fact that we’re able to polarize so many people with such strong opinion is a wonderful thing to do.

Yeah, that's what we want, to polarize and piss off readers by raping and killing characters! Yaaay!

19:25 / 20.10.04

The new issue is out today, and I have a train wreck-sort of desire to check it out...

broken gentleman.

21:25 / 20.10.04

a few interesting twists in number 5. it pays off, glad a bought it. still not in love with the entire series.

23:50 / 20.10.04

Who is it?

WHO?!

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

12:36 / 21.10.04

It's a train wreck alright. Any affection I had toward this series has long since dissipated, and this issue's hackneyd-ass "developments" certainly didn't help matters. At this point I'm just buying the book out of a combination of morbid curiosity and a desire to be able to sell the complete set on eBay.

13:01 / 21.10.04

i continue to buy this, despite the fact that, on balance, i dislike it, because i want to find out whodunnit. it's a well-crafted mystery in that respect.

here are my observations and questions for #5:

- why isn't Kyle dead? he got shot in the face at point blank range.

- again with the Flash being slower than dirt. look, people, in close quarters, just pretend he's a teleporter, because he might as well be for all the difference it makes.

- Firestorm bites it. no one cares.

- jesus h. christ on a pogo stick, how long and drawn out and maudlin can we make the inevitable good-bye scene for poor Jack Drake? that was getting comical after a while. "

"i don't want you to go. i love you, son. i'm proud of you. now, go. you have important work to do.

OK, wait, no, come back. but, if you don't make it, i love you, and i'm proud of you.

no, actually, i think i got it. i'm just gonna pop a cap in this motherfucker with one hand while i bullshit with you on the phone in the other. but if he kills me, i just NEED you to KNOW.... i love you, and i'm proud of you.

but hurry back, because he's gonna kill me. i love you, and i'm proud of you."

- how much does it suck to be Bill Willingham right now? you just sign on to be the regular writer for Robin and start getting your feet wet, then some jerkoff mystery hack gets to kill off (arguably) your main supporting character in a totally separate crossover mini? for that matter, how much does it suck to be a faithful reader of Robin? you get invested in a character and his supporting cast for over a decade only to have one of the main characters killed off off-camera and between issues.

Keith, like a scientist

14:38 / 21.10.04

it's possible he isn't dead...you never know...

Spyder Todd 2008

21:18 / 21.10.04

That much blood? If he isn't dead than he must be some sort of fucking immortal (then again...). And what the fuck? Was killing Firestorm really that neccessary? Was making Firestrom's death that tragicly lame really of any use? I know that this had been talked about before (what with that other Firestorm book and all) but why did it really seem like nobody gave a shit? He's not one of the A-Team, okay, but he's (arguably) the bigest of the B-Team.

Plus, doesn't he like, have control over atoms? Did he suddenly forget how to use his powers? Sweet zombie jesus, what a mess....

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

01:25 / 22.10.04

Wow...now the new Robin has an origin just like that last two.

The only interesting thing about Tim Drake was that here was a Robin with a decent home life.

01:41 / 22.10.04

The only interesting thing about Tim Drake was that here was a Robin with a decent home life.

Yeah, I always thought that was the cool thing about this one. He was a nice contrast to Batman and the others because rather than being motivated by revenge and "I'll never let this happen to anyone ever again!", he was basically just a really smart, good-hearted kid who became Robin because he thought it was the right thing to do. He didn't need an Uncle Ben to die to learn the whole responsibility issue, he just figured it out on his own. The angst-free nature of it was quite refreshing, actually.

You win another round, Identity Crisis. But sooner or later there's going to be a superhero with thematic elements you can't exchange for pure anguish, and we'll see who laughs then.

03:26 / 22.10.04

I dunno.

spoilers

I quite liked the portrayal of Cpt Boomerang, insofar as his late age obsolensce had to express itself violently, and all he had left was to lash out with his boomerangs.
That was OK.

I mean, I could live with that.

What I could not bear was what happened to Firestorm - Why, goddamnit, why, was what I found myself thinking. Firestorm is ( I would say was, but to hell with that, IS )
my fave superhero, and that whole shadowy guy thing, plunging his shadowy hand into Firestorm's nuclear heart, precipitating a nuclear explosion, didn't make any bloody sense whatsoever, IMHO.

For a start off, as a fan, I've seen Firestorm recover from much, much worse and laugh while he was doing it. Secondly, the idea that the human nuclear bomb wasn't always going off the whole time the last time he had a regular series... is NOT TRUE... is WRONG, and thirdly...

And thirdly... Oh fuck it, here's to you Firestorm, and your salutary reminders about Three Mile Island.

When America killed you. man, it killed it's conscience about that.

You couldn't be re-branded, like Rambo was... So Two minutes silence, and I hope you'll all join me -

" Firestorm ? "

" FIRESTORM ! "

( Lusty cheers )

" CHEERS ! "

( Can't fucking believe the bastards did that to you, man. )

13:06 / 22.10.04

Yeah, that was a pretty punk ass way to kill Firestorm, and doesn't really follow from any previous representation of his powers.

Do you suppose Ronnie will show up as a voice in the head of the new Firestorm (assuming he hasn't already) like Professor Stein did in his?

The thing that's driving me most crazy about this story is that while it seems like it should be a really epic story, it just feels kinda weak and pointless. Like it's one of those little 8 page ongoing serials they used to put at the back of their big comics.

Blah...

13:53 / 22.10.04

I keep reading this in the store hoping it might get slightly better or show some more intelligence, but no go so far... I imagine Tim Drake's dad is dead for good.

And it's BOOMERANG that's been doing these murders? Fucking BOOMERANG...!?!? OK, he can't have been doing ALL of them, right? I agree that it must be Calculator coordinating all these and providing these two-bit hack villains with the tech. and info. they need. But when will this story get exciting and interesting...?

Firestorm's death was so ancillary and parenthetical -- it was like a blowing of one's nose ("oh, and by the way, Firestorm just died in 2 pages, we want you to feel very sad about this, dear reader").

Yawn. And I can't believe I originally thought this was going to be a really good series.

And yes, Kyle did get shot either in the face or very close to it, right? Although one panel shows him clutching his arm, maybe he moved his head away at the last second and it was a wild shot...? But he said he couldn't see....because of blood or what?? Oh, who cares...

Spyder Todd 2008

16:55 / 22.10.04

I do admit that I liked Deadshot risking himself to get at GL. Even if it had meant killing Kyle (who I do enjoy), I would have accepted that as a total badass thing to do.

Of course, then they pussyfoot around it and say he got shot in the arm. Somehow. Even with Deadshot (who never misses a target) aiming straight for his face. Assholes.

18:53 / 22.10.04

Yes, that was total nonsense as well. Deadshot was firing bullets, damnit, when he caught that ricochet, and we're supposed to believe that when he shot Green Lantern in the head, he'd decided to switch to his light gun or something, having already hurt himself very badly so he could get the guy in his sights ?

This whole series seems like the work of a desperate man who's probably on drugs, and not in good way. And he's supposedly reinventing the DC universe, in previously unimaginable ways. It's like a kindly rich father giving *the boy* the keys to the BMW, and I personally can't wait to see what happens next.

20:05 / 22.10.04

i couldn't agree more about Tim Drake as the non-angsty Robin. he's pretty much my favorite Bat-character ever because he's pretty much just a smart, level-headed, responsible kid, who just really gets it. they had better not turn him into another generic angsty vigilante now.

it's also worth noting that his relationship with his dad was starting to get really interesting, what with the whole secret identity being blown thing and Jack and Tim talking about what it means for him to be Robin. just like Sue Dibny - so much wasted potential.

I do admit that I liked Deadshot risking himself to get at GL. Even if it had meant killing Kyle (who I do enjoy), I would have accepted that as a total badass thing to do.

i did, too, which made the fact that Kyle survived for no good reason i can see infuriate me even more.

20:25 / 22.10.04

And he's supposedly reinventing the DC universe, in previously unimaginable ways.

See, my problem is not that he's reinventing (or riffing on Watchmen, whatever), but that it's making the DC Universe LESS interesting. Here's a chart with the motivations of three DC detectives, pre-Identity Crisis:

BATMAN: Vengeance
ELONGATED MAN: Love of mystery
ROBIN: "It's just the right thing to do"

So yeah, you have three superheroes, all detectives, but they have three very different reasons for putting on nifty costumes and solving crimes and so the tones of their stories differ from one another. Now, Post-ID motivations:

BATMAN: Vengeance
ELONGATED MAN: Vengeance
ROBIN: Vengeance (probably, if Jack's really dead)

Within the 7-part story itself, it creates a nice thematic unity, but once these characters head back to their own books or other projects, you're left with the problem of these three being the same guy, essentially, now. (I also think this is why the Nightwing series has problems.)

That's my big problem with this. I wouldn't mind sweeping status quo changes across the DCU, but they're making THE SAME CHANGE for every character.

Keith, like a scientist

20:53 / 22.10.04

and...am i right in remembering this is only 6 issues?

so the next issue is the last? if it's not boomerang as the primary villian, they have a lot to explain.

Spyder Todd 2008

21:05 / 22.10.04

No, it's 7. So they can mess around for another issue before wrapping it up.

And it just occured to me. This is THE big thing this year, right? But hardly annything is happening. THey spend so much time rambling in issues 2 through 4 that you all the sudden get a dead Firestorm on your hands and you ask "What?" It seems that in terms of sweeping changes, this is about as unsweeping as it could get. Just a though...

D Terminator XXXIII

21:18 / 22.10.04

Maybe that's exactly why IDENTITY CRISIS hits such a nerve with fandom. Trying to lay that kind of emotional burden on characters that readers don't think were built for it... that'll put anyone a little ill at ease. Too bad Marvel didn't think of it first. It's a story that's tailor made for their universe.">Bullshit.

When DC recieve my lovely, lovely post modern proposal, they're gonna think twice. They, in this case, being the "fandom."

D Terminator XXXIII

21:21 / 22.10.04

(wonky link should fix itself when two moderators finally agree)

15:03 / 23.10.04

Although think about it; how long could even a good writer make the "Tim's dad knows" thing work? As it is now, shitty writer Bill Willingham (his work on ROBIN sucks and FABLES is kind of clever, I have to admit, but not the second coming of Vertigo everyone's made it out to be) just has Jack Drake go "I'm worried about you son, I'm worried about you but I love and support you...it's just so hard for me...I wish you'd stop...but I love and support you..." -- kind of like Meltzer had the dad do in this issue of IC.

How much farther can you go other than "I'm worried about you but I support you; I wish you'd stop?" Hell, Aunt May knowing about Spider-Man has more levels to it under JMS' writing. But how much can you really do other than have the loved one worry a lot, unless the loved one is a dynamic character in their own right (i.e. Lois Lane, some would argue Mary Jane isn't that dynamic and I probably agree; at least JMS is trying to give MJ her own life in having her pursue her acting career again)?

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

16:35 / 23.10.04

This issue showed exactly what is wrong with the whole run.

Not that it is a bad story, not that it is inappropriate, but that it is just a series of shocks, and is horridly edited.

The death of Firestorm had absolutely no emotional impact, and when you are writing a story that is pretty much about death, you should go out of your way to make it count. I have no great love of the character, but the death was poorly plotted, and just read as if an editor somewhere said, "Here's who you can have to knock off in the big crossover." The death of Sue Dibney has struck me oddly, since most people are saying that it is a character that no one did anything with, and that's just flat out wrong. In the Giffen Justice League, she was one of the best characters, and was the emotional center for the series.

Then we get to the death of Robin's father, and it is quite literally the longest death scene in comics. Panel after panel of him going on and on about how knew he was going to die, and giving that Final Speech. I understand what they writer was going for, and just think that an editor should have stepped in in the plotting phase and said, "lose a couple of pages from the endless speech, add some of that to the Firestorm scene, and remember that even if we don't like that character, someone does, so make it MEAN something."

I read Avengers 502 right before this, and the death scene in that was shocking, short, yet gave the character a heroic ending that working in the context of the story. These haven't, and it drag the whole series down from the event that DC wants it to be, to another big crossover that will have it's Big Scenes reversed as soon as a decent writer can convince them to do so.

13:40 / 01.11.04

bit behind, just read the first four issues, having read this thread I wasn't hoping for much. There is a little too much suspension of intellegence to be had while reading it, and the second issue was flat as anything (the attempt by Black Cannary to silence GA and him going ahead to get Ralph to tell a pretty traumatic story as they all make their way to a villain that they think has commited a terrible crime - yeah, tell us a story Ralph, that'll take your mind off of things, and I'm sure you want to worry about that rather than getting to Light!). I think that it's a great shame as it seems to be a lot of shoe-horned stuff and bad characterisation of the bigger characters. However, I really liked some of the dialogue interplay, and the Villian stuff is great, them playing board games and the such. I couldn't care about taxing myself to try and guess who dunnit though, but am kind of interested in where it's going. Plus if, from what a lot of people seem to be suggesting, Batman has had his memory tampered with, then it will be itneresting to see what happens here - seems like they are trying to bring a load of second string villians and heros up as serious contenders, but at the same time isolate the big boys (particular Batman and Superman, a lot is being made about how they are above the rest of them).

09:06 / 02.11.04

I am sooooo glad I'm not paying to read this piece of shit comic.

Am such a sucker for mysteries, can't bail now.

18:20 / 09.11.04

Next issue is out tomorrow, people are already talking about some major spoilers (which didn't seem to make much sense, so I don't know how much I believe them) on various message boards...

18:21 / 10.11.04

So, do y'all want to be spoiled on this crap or what?

18:46 / 10.11.04

yeah, I'm gonna pick it up tomorrow, but spoilers don't bother me, shoot...

18:52 / 10.11.04

"it was the ATOM in the kitchen with a butcher knife!"

19:51 / 10.11.04

Although many are theorizing that the whole Atom thing is a red herring/misdirection cliffhanger ending...

Why would the Atom go psycho, other than maybe that he became depressed, hostile, over his lame-o superhero career and his divorce from Jean...?

Apparently the issue has a big Batman revelation in it too.

20:58 / 10.11.04

Six words: Microscopic footprints in Sue Dibny's brain.

Which is a pretty cool visual image tbh. People are saying Atom got mindswapped and someone used his body for a bit of the auld ultra-violence.

21:09 / 10.11.04

well I flipped through it & this is my impression
:
:
:
SPOILERS
:
:
:
:

The BATMAN reveal seemed to be that his memory of that whole Lobotomy thing was whiped clean otherwise he would stop them. Green Arrow rationalizes to FLASH that BATMAN would've done the same thing...

Meanwhile Microscopic footprints are found on SUE's brain tissue or something setting up a cliffhanger with Ray palmer & his wife...

21:10 / 10.11.04

Well I suppose the Atom's continually shrunk and expanded his mind, along with everything else, during his career. Plus he's a physicist, resigned to never meeting anyone special ever again, as I think it says around episode two. Has he engineered this situation so as to remind his ex of her ties to the superhero community, that although she's a successful lawyer, and so on, it's no defence against the likes of Dr Light and Deathstroke the Terminator, in the face of which guys she's going to need a man like the Atom to protect her ?

Well I hope not, but the Atom as a character's been a bit slack, I'd imagine, for a couple of years, and after what happened to poor dead Firestorm...

Hypothetical final scene: The Atom sits there in a darkened room with his head in his hands, in a torn costume, surrounded by his team mates plus a seething Elongated Man, who everyone's trying to hold back, but then how would you do that ?

Green Arrow: " Why'd you do it ? "

The Atom: " I think... I think I acted out of character. "

21:19 / 10.11.04

It will be revealed next issue that Ray Palmer is a Doombot, and that Dr. Doom engineering the the whole thing from his mansion in Latveria. Exeunt Omnes.

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