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DC: Identity Crisis

 
  

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Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:51 / 16.12.04
What about Zero Hour? Hal becomes Parallax becomes dead Parallax (only he doesn't), Guy Gardner becomes even more fucking ridiculous, Batman doesn't discover who killed his parents, DC release a number of crap titles that don't sell and get cancelled within a year... Erm, alright, I admit it, I can't think of any. But mainly that's because I read Marvel during the early nineties when you'd be lucky if anyone in a comic would even mention they'd just destroyed the universe in the previous months crossover.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:23 / 16.12.04
I can't believe that I used to think IC was good or was going to end well....
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:47 / 16.12.04
It seems like big event comics seldomly end well.
 
 
John Octave
17:52 / 16.12.04
What's the deal with Batman getting his memories erased? I haven't read this past #3, but everyone's complaining about this seemingly hot topic that isn't being dealt with. How much of his memory has been erased, exactly?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
19:37 / 16.12.04
Well... remember when he had that bat baby?
 
 
matsya
19:47 / 16.12.04
I thought DC 10000000 was kinda fun for a multipart crossover. Admittedly it didn't make major changes to the landscape, but it did have the advantage of 1) not forcing you to read every single issue in the whole muckamuck and 2) being actually decent writing and fun.

Just bittorrented the whole of IC and read 6 & 7. Holy fuck what crap.

"Hey, I know how I'll get back with my boyfriend! I'll steal his costume and shrink down, then walk around in my old friend's brain! Yeah, that'll work! But just in case anything goes wrong I'd better bring this big fucking gun along!"

That's not insane. That's stupid. She should be in the Arkham Asylum for the criminally STUPID.

Formerly Known as the Justice League rocks.

booyah.

m.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:21 / 16.12.04
Everyone across the board on review sites and message board agrees that Elongated Man's monologue at the end was not touching but CREEPY.

and then there was this post from a message board I saw:

>> Such a let down. Somehow Jean knows Superman is married to Lois, Jack Drake is Robin's father, she's nuts, and she's stupid ("Who sent the note to Jack Drake?" [in the moments before sex, no less] SHE'S A LAWYER!!!). The whole issue just felt rushed.

Yeah, Jean's been really out of the JLA loop for a while, how does she know about all these secret ID's?
 
 
FinderWolf
23:31 / 16.12.04
Oh, and talk about how bad the Arthur Miller quote is: something like "the end of an age is signified by the shattering of all its illusions." Thanks, Brad Meltzer, I guess you're telling us this is the end of heroes who are really Good? Now we have lots of grey areas and senseless rape & murder, look how mature comics are now?!?!

Hinting at the Batman mindwipe but not actually dealing with it in the pages of IC is a huge cop-out.

This really was so bad...can't believe DCU head editorial thinks this is good.

There was something else in here that really pissed me off but I forget what it is.

Hopefully the new Crisis will be great superhero comics and not this crap.
 
 
FinderWolf
23:33 / 16.12.04
In comparison, I thought Zero Hour was silly fun, not bad but not good...just a decent crossover event with nice art (finishes by Jerry Ordway will do that to a book). Zero Hour certainly wasn't the stain on the DCU that IC was, not even close. Hell, I liked FINAL NIGHT.
 
 
X-Himy
23:35 / 16.12.04
I was talking to the guy at my comic shop about why I was not buying the issue, and I told him that I hope the first thing the New Crisis retcons is IC. One can always dream. I did not like IC, but the last issue was so massively flawed, that it alone makes everything before it seem like high art.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:23 / 17.12.04
I think the worst thing about this series is that it's sales success means that we're going to have other creators take their turn at bat to make their own version. I haven't read the last issue yet, but if you've EVER read a mystery novel, you knew who the killer was. This thing wasn't just done by formula, it was as if he took a novel that hadn't sold and did a search and replace on the names, adding super-heroes and fight scenes.

Let's see what the Big Changes were:

-Robin now has the same origin as the other two Robins, and has nothing interesting about the character anymore.

-The first Firestorm died in a scene so bereft of drama, it felt as if it were accidentally pasted into the book.

-They can't do any more of the Maguire/Dematties/Giffen Justice League books without having to either refer to this crap or leave out many of their best characters.

-All of the 60's DC hero's wives or girlfriends have had a "big secret" that come off as a pain in the ass instead of just being regular people.

-It is going to take a LOT of stupid writing to make it so the super-villains don't know everyone's secret identities.

-Did I already mention that Joey Cavileri and Bob Harris will probably try to do their own versions of this story four or five times?
 
 
Benny the Ball
04:15 / 17.12.04
The whole stuff with Psycho Pirate at the end of Crisis was great I thought, and I think that it kind of led to the Vertigo universe existing as it does now in a loose way. Zero Hour was okay, but it was ignored quite quickly and things went back to normal in DC land. The last issue of IC sounds terrible - so many things implied, nothing covered. Are we supposed to believe that Batman just accepts that the mind-wiping stuff went on, and he knows this because 'he's a detective?' - is it Brad's crappy way of explaining why Batman sometimes seems to disapprove of super-powered heroes?

I'm just going to ignore it and wait for JLA classified number 4 (or is it 3?) and I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice LEague.
 
 
gridley
11:40 / 17.12.04
Was Infinity Inc any good?

It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad. As a 13-year old, I definitely thought it was fun.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:25 / 17.12.04
>> The first Firestorm died in a scene so bereft of drama, it felt as if it were accidentally pasted into the book.

Apparently they're going to bring the first Firestorm back in some form very soon - an advance solicit of an upcoming issue of Firestorm in the new Previews says something like "He died in the pages of Identity Crisis! But energy cannot be truly destroyed, right...? The original Firestorm returns in a unique form!"

I'm serious. Wish I were kidding. Not that I care all that much, it's just dumb.
 
 
The Falcon
20:29 / 18.12.04
In all fairness (and this a not an attemot to rescue the series' dignity) can anyone mention a mega cross-over (and as this only crossed over into three titles it doesn't qualify, but it WAS heavily publicized) that DID effect the entirety of all the titles?

I'll start by pointing out that Crisis on Infinite Earths ultimately destroyed continuity and killed off more ideas than characters. To me Crisis was about getting Perez to worl on Wonder Woman, Byrne on Superman and Miller on Batman... which sadly did not last long. Crisis really got used well with the creation of the JSA comic years later when the actual lineage of superheroes got used.


Yeah, man, but infinite earths (-1) were destroyed. Every event since is but an echo.

Animal Man.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:01 / 19.12.04
so Simplist was right way back on page 6 of this topic.

Wow, what a crappy final issue. I actually liked the other 6 issues well enough and was fairly interested in how the story was panning out. I think I would have been ok with it being Atom for some odd reason, but Jean? WTF?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:23 / 19.12.04
The original Firestorm returns in a unique form!"

Oooooh! Maybe he'll come back..

with a mullet
 
 
A
21:35 / 19.12.04
A mullet OF FIRE!
 
 
gridley
23:47 / 19.12.04
Do you suppose he could grow a flaming mustache?

What about his pubic hair?
 
 
osymandus
08:17 / 20.12.04
handlebar moustache (40 inchs each side) 4ft long mullet and sideburns of flame.

BEWARE EVIL DOERS THE LIVING HAIR OF JUSTICE !!
 
 
Benny the Ball
15:20 / 20.12.04
Last night I drifted off to sleep and came up with a really lucid reason for why this series didn't work, something to do with presuming that story telling between the boarders was neccessary and insulting the readers. But I only had four hours sleep, and can't remember any of it clearly enough. And now all I want to do is write about how fantastic a creation Firestorm was, and how some of the later issues where the Prof was dying and they were out in the desert were some of my favourite stories of that time (just before he went all elemental). How can you kill energy, sounds as crap as John Byrne writing the Demon.
 
 
bio k9
06:02 / 21.12.04
The Spectre isn't going to have a handlebar moustache, 4ft long mullet or sideburns of flame.
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:19 / 21.12.04
He does have a mullet! Why do you think he wears the hood? He's been bidding his time, waiting for the right time to unleash it's waves of wrathy justice.
 
 
diz
13:04 / 21.12.04
a few people online have pointed out a flaw that should have been obvious after reading IC #7:

Jean knows Robin's secret identity. she might even know Batman's secret identity.

given that, why the fuck would either one of them tolerate her being sent to Arkham Asylum, of all places? you know, where she would have maximum exposure to exactly the crowd of people who shouldn't know those two identities in particular?
 
 
rabideyemovement
13:16 / 21.12.04
They should've taken care of her in the way that Spectre meant when he told Ollie to "make them pay."
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:47 / 21.12.04
I'm going to regret saying anything as I have before in a thread where everyone's made up their mind, but the series worked quite well (aside fron a few plotholes that don't hold up such as putting the killer with all the answers in Arkham, her knowing all the League's secrets with no real explanation unless the Atom left more than a spare costume in the junk room and I can't quite shake the image of Jean weilding a flame thrower as being just silly... "Just in case I screw up with scaring her, I'll bring along this weapon to utterly destroy the evidence' Uh... right).

But the central concept of the series as I see it was not touched upon here. The endless statements by Ollie that 'They say it was simpler then' and Jean's 'I just wanted things to go back to the way they were' are the key to this whole story. It's about looking at the late 70's/early 80's as being ideal when in fact it wasn't. It's also about how you cannot go back. The DCU has moved on and that's just the way it is.

The way I see it we got two key character journeys to the story, Green Arrow and the Flash. Ollie has been holding all these secrets in and sees that it's time to let them out, to Wally West who is the fan boy-like character who lives in adoration of his mentor Barry Allen. Ollie slowly lets out all these dark secrets, not quite knowing how Wally will receive them. I think he was hoping Wally would punch him out. Rags is an outstanding artist and he conveys such emotion in Oliver's face. Wally accepts all of the secrets and continues to accept the JLA, even inviting Oliver out to dinner afterwards. It's something they both want to be okay about but they know that things have changed. They just refuse to accept it.

The Arthur Miller quote was about the other part of the story, the Flash. Sitting in the JLA meeting room trying to act cool even though he now knows all these dark secrets (including the ones learned in the Flash crossover). The percieved innocence is over, has been for ages. All the heroes are just pretending to be pure when in fact no one can be.

Then there's the theme that these characters lead crazy double lives and their loved ones get left behind, as evidenced by Tim and his Dad and the numerous wives. Jean wanted her husbans back, wanted all the marriages and relationships to heal... which is a bizarre motivation for a killer, admittedly.

The series was not about bringing rape and murder into the DCU nor was it about shocking people by killing of Sue Dibney (why not kill of Doiby Dickles!... crap, maybe they'll do that next now).

Despite what you think of the mystery, Metzer did something that few of any writers can. He wrote nearly every DCU super hero into a story and kept them all in character throughout. That stunned me.

From the beginning of this series, I had some issues abd still do with it. I cannot figure out how this will affect the DCU and while I think it's a great story don't think it suited for all the publicity it got. I hate mysteries as a rule and was never concerned about who the killer was. By setting the ante so high you had everyone online trying to guess and it got so crazy which was obviously not the series intent. I mean, why make it be the Atom's wife?? The motivation is never even hinted at to the reader which is hardly the sign of a good mystery, is it? Especially when you've got all these guesses going on that tie into DC history, etc. I like the story but cannot figure out what the fuck DC or Metzer was thinking.

Also, the series had by far the worst covers I've ever seen, combined with the shittiest slogans. I felt like I was buying porn the way I hid the covers when leaving the store. Ugh.

I've been (for some reason) collecting or borrowing nearly every DC comic printed recently and this series makes perfect sense in the way the company is going now (aside from Superman who's a year on the future for some stupid reason). Characters have been developing in such a way that they've been questioning their origins, motivations and if they can trust their teammates, etc.

It's all in the pages of comics I don't think anyone here is reading: JSA, the Flash, Hawkman even Teen Titans (all Geoff Johns). But I understand just jumping into this is jarring. It would have worked better as a cross-comic even rather than a stand-alone actually.

But whatever. It's over. I'm looking forward to the Rann-Thanager conflict.

Oh and the bashing I'll get for posting my POV (not a dig at the board, I'm just being pessimistic).
 
 
FinderWolf
17:16 / 21.12.04
I'm not going to bash you, just to say that I disagree with a lot of what you like about the series. I think the themes 'it was simpler then' and showing the ramifications of a mindwipe/brainwash of a horrible villain who's discovered something dangerous for the heroes of the JLA could have been told better and more interstingly.

Rags' art is definitely strong throughout.

I'm reading all the Geoff Johns books you mentioned (well, I skim/read JSA in the store or I buy occasional issues when they grab me here and there) and I think all of his writing on those books is overall better than Meltzer's IC, dealing with similar themes as you mentioned.

Do we think the new Crisis (it's been 20 years, BTW) will take away this darkening of the DCU? I doubt it, but I'm wondering, given the rumors surrounding it (see Countdown thread)... I know they're only rumors, of course, so they may not hold much water...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:26 / 21.12.04
Finder, I agree that it could have been better told as well.

I still can't figure how this will integrate into the DCU. Aside from Robin being an orphan and the new Capt Boomerang... I don't see the other writers itching to use the series in their books.

But that's awesome that you read those comics, no one really talks about them on these boards and I think for one that JSA is the best super hero comic out there!
 
 
Simplist
17:55 / 27.12.04
Finally read the final issue--having recently moved away from readily-accessible comic shops, I'm now getting books by mail order, which introduces a ten-day delay, more or less...

First, I've got to hand it to the many mystery fans who identified Jean as the killer pretty much immediately upon discovering she'd survived the phony attack. Amusingly, this was based not on anything unique to this particular story, but rather on the recognition of a common genre trope being played out, namely the "killer fakes attack on self to deflect suspicion" routine.

As for my own reaction to the finale, I think Meltzer & DC editorial basically wimped out. I thought the whole series was pretty misguided to begin with, but having set it in motion they at least could've allowed it to play out to its logical conclusion. Instead, they brought us right to the brink of disaster--Bats finding out about his mindwipe--and then copped out with this whole (unbelievable and out of character) "Supes & Bats kind of know but are blocking it out of their awareness to avoid breaking the JLA" thing, leaving the overall status quo essentially unchanged. Kind of having their cake and eating it too, a "realistic" story, but without "realistic" consequences.

I know this thing was a big sales success, but it will be interesting to see if anyone even remembers it two years down the line, or if it joins past sillinesses like "Millenium" in our collective continuity amnesia.
 
 
diz
00:28 / 28.12.04
Despite what you think of the mystery, Metzer did something that few of any writers can. He wrote nearly every DCU super hero into a story and kept them all in character throughout.

so Superman intentionally turning a blind eye (ear) to some morally-dubious goings on is "in character?"

Batman tolerating being mind-wiped is "in character?"

sorry, i'm just not seeing it.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
01:23 / 28.12.04
After reading the whole thing, I have to stand by what I said earlier:

This is a well written and well drawn story that isn't any good at all. Yes, the character stuff was good, and I LIKE the idea of the heroes personal lives in dangers (since Secret Identities have lost pretty much all of their power over the past few years). Rags is an artist I have thought deserved wider recognition when he was drawing Hourman.

But the damn thing had a stupid plot that just got worse as it went on. The motivation of the killer made NO sense, and there are so many plot threads that simply went nowhere ...oh, I'm sorry, "they'll resonate through the DC Universe for years to come."

Meh. Why is it so hard for DC to JUST TELL GOOD STORIES, instead of trying to turn everything on its head every few years?

It's like Spider-Man's clone saga...some issues may have been done well, but the overall story ruined them.
 
 
FinderWolf
02:49 / 28.12.04
>> This is a well written and well drawn story that isn't any good at all.

So accurate. Some of the character stuff is commendable, and some of it just sucks.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:55 / 28.12.04
It's interesting what Dizfactor says about Superman and Batman being totally out of character because a lot of creators after working on either of those two books that it's incredibly difficult to write because of all the restraints there are. That in fact the easiest Batman stories to write are those that are either 'Elseworlds' or non-current, because then you can experiment a little. Why else do we have all those Year One Batman and Superman LS come out?

But 'justice' in the DCU is a joke. The Spectre turns Triumph into an icicle in JLA for the crime of being shit, why has he never done anything nasty to The Joker for killing (by now) thousands of people? I don't think the insanity defense works with the bloody Wrath of God somehow.

And why did the Atom throw his wife in Arkham anyway? Her actions seem premeditated to me. If they are trying to suggest she's insane because she killed people then they should shut all the prisons in the DCU and rename them as Asylums, as obviously only crazy people do bad things.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:44 / 28.12.04
>> Why is it so hard for DC to JUST TELL GOOD STORIES, instead of trying to turn everything on its head every few years?

Also well-said.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:14 / 28.12.04
Why can't DC tell good stories? Er... because "intelligent comic books readers" keep buying shit series even though they think/know they're shit?
 
  

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