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DC: Identity Crisis

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18:57 / 28.12.04

It's interesting what Dizfactor says about Superman and Batman being totally out of character because a lot of creators after working on either of those two books that it's incredibly difficult to write because of all the restraints there are. That in fact the easiest Batman stories to write are those that are either 'Elseworlds' or non-current, because then you can experiment a little. Why else do we have all those Year One Batman and Superman LS come out?

well, yes, but part of what makes Elseworlds work is that you still have certain core elements of the character stay consistent, even if you've put them in a different setting. Batman is still Batman, even if he's Pirate Batman.

i think you can definitely make a case that excessive continuity baggage is tying creator's hands, but that has to be balanced against the need for the character to be recognizably the same character. Superman is the Big Blue Boy Scout, and he's just too much of the Big Blue Boy Scout to be comfortable making moral compromises with regard to the behavior of his friends. similarly, Batman is not someone who rolls over and allows himself to be fucked with. these things are too ingrained in the characters to change no matter how much you mess with the window dressing.

Why can't DC tell good stories? Er... because "intelligent comic books readers" keep buying shit series even though they think/know they're shit?

i will confess to having willfully fed this particular beast. Goody Proctor made me do it! she led us out into the woods, and we sang blasphemous songs and danced with The Devil Himself as he played the fiddle. she made us commit foul witchcraft where we spoke to the damned soul of Goody Dibny and we bought issues of Identity Crisis and signed away our souls.

21:49 / 28.12.04

Yeah, this one really just had that car crash quality, didn't it?

02:45 / 29.12.04

Ok.

Is she wearing gloves when she gags herself in this pannel or is that dramatic comic book lighting? When I read it I thought they were gloves. If she's not wearing gloves her right thumb is missing a fingernail. Maybe the whole nail fell off in Sue Dibny's head. Stupid stupid comic.

Also: Man Hands.

ONLY NICE THINGS

03:32 / 29.12.04

Man hands indeed. Not to mention that, if she were gagging herself, she would most probably be doing it with the backs of her hands towards the viewer.

04:03 / 29.12.04

I just want to put in a vote for never, ever changing the thread abstract. Maybe to "It's GREAT!" But that might be overkill.

12:48 / 29.12.04

Like I said earler, every time I see the thread abstract I wrote, I cringe.

16:54 / 29.12.04

Just so long as you don't try hanging yourself while wearing gloves...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

19:09 / 29.12.04

Maybe The Atom will take the opportunity to read some Dave Sim and the new Crisis will open with him giving his villainous Female Void the spanking she deserves?

17:11 / 03.01.05

A suitable Eulogy

17:37 / 03.01.05

Pretty good. And they use "Da Fug." Joy.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

17:39 / 03.01.05

That last page is fucking brilliant, and a devestating condemnation of the whole series. Kudos.

20:03 / 03.01.05

That was quite possibly worse than the series itself.

19:30 / 13.01.05

Meltzer gives a big interview over at Newsrama where he discusses the series, and esp. this notable blurb where we realize that other than the death of Sue Dibny (DC-ordained, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SNAPPER CARR!!! oh, sorry), we can blame it all on Meltzer himself.

>> BM: What you read was exactly as I originally pitched it. And that’s a testament to Dan Didio, Mike Carlin, and Paul Levitz. When I first came to comics with Green Arrow, I’d heard so many comic industry horror stories about editorial interference, rewriting, and all the headaches. Identity Crisis was the opposite of that. They came to me and said, “We’re looking for an emotional story that would get at the core of what it really means to put on a cape and mask…and to give it some depth, you can kill this one character.” That was all they gave me, which is exactly how I wanted it. It was up to me to figure it out. I then plotted the whole book out: the deaths, the rape, the ascendancy of the villains, bringing Deathstroke to the forefront of the DCU, hinting at Hal's return, Robin’s father, the new Boomerang, all the interconnecting relationships that add community to this supposed real universe, and of course, the mindwipes.

19:33 / 13.01.05

>> BM: Like anyone else writing comics, I just picked the era I liked best. The Satellite League was my League growing up. And it was a complex League. People forget the emotions that made that era so interesting...Barry rebounding with Zee after Iris died…the Ollie/Katar feuds…Red Tornado’s daughter and his struggle for humanity. They were people. That’s why I was drawn in.

OK, wait, Barry Allen had an affair with Zatanna after he thought Iris was dead...? I never heard about this and I've been a comic fan for 20+ years!

19:35 / 13.01.05

>> NRAMA: Another quick nitpick - how did Jean Loring know Tim Drake's secret identity?

>> BM: You mean besides the fact she spent hours at a funeral with every hero in the DC Universe, including her ex-husband, who all trusted her and would talk openly around her?

Eehhh. Still sucky, how many JLA funerals did she go to when Tim Drake was around? Maybe Wonder Woman's mother a few years ago in the crappy Our Worlds At War thingie...

19:52 / 13.01.05

>> BM: And why does the last word balloon have no tail on it (and why is it centered on the page as opposed to being on his side of the bed)? Because we don't know who's saying it.

Oooh! How deep, mysterious and clever!!!

Sheesh.

02:05 / 14.01.05

OK, wait, Barry Allen had an affair with Zatanna after he thought Iris was dead...? I never heard about this and I've been a comic fan for 20+ years!

Oh, it happened.... early 80s JLA. It was brief and most of it took place off camera, but they let you know it was happening. If I recall, he ended things because it was too soon for him.

And then he promptly got into a whirlwind romance with Fiona over in his own title.

Hmmmm.... maybe I know a little to much about Barry Allen's lovelife.

12:12 / 14.01.05

>> NRAMA: Another quick nitpick - how did Jean Loring know Tim Drake's secret identity?

>> BM: You mean besides the fact she spent hours at a funeral with every hero in the DC Universe, including her ex-husband, who all trusted her and would talk openly around her?

Eehhh. Still sucky, how many JLA funerals did she go to when Tim Drake was around? Maybe Wonder Woman's mother a few years ago in the crappy Our Worlds At War thingie...

and wasn't it Meltzer's point that superheroes went in costume to funerals specifically to preserve their secret identities? it's not like Robin's going to go out in public dressed in his Robin costume, casually introducing himself as Tim Drake.

i'm not sure when he shared his secret ID with his fellow members of Young Justice or the Teen Titans, but i'm sure it took a while, and even now he still keeps his distance from the other Titans in many senses. he's on a team with these people, and he keeps his ID secret from them for a while. meanwhile, he barely even knows Ray Palmer himself, much less his ex-wife. there's no reason whatsoever to believe that Robin would tell Jean his secret identity, and it would certainly be a terrible breach of ettiquette for anyone else who might happen to know to tell her without his permission. i mean, any number of heroes might know Tim Drake's secret identity, just like any number of them know Bruce's or Clark's, but they sure as hell don't tell anyone else who doesn't already know. i mean, can you imagine the shit-storm that would ensue if, say, Wally West just casually told someone's ex-wife that Bruce Wayne is Batman?

BrianFitzgerald

21:58 / 14.01.05

BM: You mean besides the fact she spent hours at a funeral with every hero in the DC Universe, including her ex-husband, who all trusted her and would talk openly around her?
Speaking of every hero in the DC Universe, was there a reason given for why J'onn's telepathy wouldn't be working at the funeral?

22:21 / 14.01.05

J'onn hates to pry into other people's heads. It's not like he's always hearing everybody's thoughts.

22:48 / 14.01.05

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what, exactly, are the ramifications of this story? This was widely advertised as an event that will re-shape the DCU (in DK Books' "DC Comics Encyclopedia" it says "The entire DCU recieved a sprucing-up during Identity Crisis")

Did I miss something? So things weren't always great and happy and sunny. Big fucking whoop. How has this changed things, really?

15:26 / 02.02.05

Ok, so in a Greg Rucka-written recent ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, he has the Big 3 discussing the events of IC. Superman says that he basically knew about the mindwipe of Dr. Light but found out after it happened. He sort of approved although he thought it was a bit much, he says he kept picturing what he might do if his loved ones (Ma and Pa, Lois, etc.) were being threatened by someone who knew his ID.

Wonder Woman, who is just hearing about all this now, basically says "Light got what he deserved...you could have killed him, you know, he's evil through and through." This is the familiar "WW is a warrior, she's not afraid of killing when she has to" take on Diana.

Batman essentially shows that he's pissed about the mindwipe and also that he's not up for killing people who learn the heroes' secret IDs.

And Greg Rucka is about to write a DC miniseries based off a spin on the old OMAC concept, where OMAC this time around is some sort of Hal/Big Brother type computer system that watches over everyone in the DCU. Solicitations for the mini also say that in the story, Bats is out to make sure that no one can ever mindwipe anyone ever again.

15:29 / 02.02.05

And Joe Casey in his column over at CBR this week comments that he was recently re-reading Grant Morrison's introduction to the Waid-written BORN TO RUN paperback, where Grant comments on how Waid was writing against the dark, grim-n-gritty, violence and rape trend in comics at the time....and of course, Casey points out that with IC, we now seem to be back at the dark, grim-n-gritty rape mentality. He also points out that Frank Miller writing All-Star Batman might herald more dark, hard-edged gritty superhero writing.

15:32 / 02.02.05

Hopefully CRISIS 2 will be DCU superhero epic fun/adventure and not be all grim, dark, violent, raping, etc.

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