Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

Page: 1 ... 75 76 77 78 79(80)81 82 83

19:58 / 14.03.08

No worries, Mordant. I just wanted to be clear.

--Ember--

19:33 / 17.03.08

Oh me,oh my...I am so happy. I have a temp job for the next 3 weeks at a financial company! Plus, I passed an exam onthe weekend that is the first step to getting licensed as an Insurance agent which will help me build a new career.

Death and taxes, baby!

Thank you, everyone, so far...full stability is not far off.

20:59 / 28.03.08

Crickets 'round here. Well I've got one for folks. I did a search just for the word "bottle" on the Temple and got nothing at all, so I don't think there's a thread for this already:

What d'you folks know of Bottle spells in the Voodoo/Vodoun context? I've heard of spirit bottles, zombie bottles, bottle spells, bottle trees, witch bottles... I don't know where to begin, but I'm finding searching info to mostly produce either advertisements for such I could purchase (which is not what I want), or bottle trees of the artistic kind with no explanation of esoteric value.

I am MOST interested in Spirit Bottles.

--Ember--

19:07 / 31.03.08

Well, when it comes down to le magique I'm at best a voyuer. but I can tell you that Brazilian folklore has a few stories in which bottles are used to capture spirits and force them to grant wishes, most notably the Saci, but diabinhos ("imps") as well. This is done by throwing a sieve over a small whirl of wind (the Saci's favorite form of transport, which would lead me to define them as "air genie") which paralyzes the Saci. Then you take a rosary and surround the sieve with it, which renders the Saci in a "drunk-like" state. At this moment you remove the sieve and place the bottle in the middle of the rosary. The Saci will try to flee the power of the rosary by entering the bottle. At this moment - quick! or it will get away - you put a cork on the bottle (preferably a cork onto which the shape of a cross has been burnt with a hot knife) to capture it. And now you have your own wish-granting trickster geenie. But don't let it get away, or it will take its revenge on you (probably by making every milk you buy from now to the end of your life go sour)

I heard of this technique from the "Criadores de Saci" ("Saci Breeders"), a relatively large following of Brazilian nativist magicians, though themselves would rather befriend the Sacis than capturing them (wise choice) and I myself never even considered trying it for myself.

Hope that was helpful. I don't write much in the Temple, and I usually waste my chance when I do.

On that note, I also have a stupid question: have any of you heard of the "Crystal Babies"? They are supposed to be the next evolutionary step after the Indigo Babies. If you need more info about how I heard of them, I will provide, but first I wanted to hear "unbiased" responses...

20:40 / 31.03.08

It's not in a voudoun context, but as far as I understand it, there was/is an old RAF superstition that if you suspect your machine is having troubles with a Gremlin, leaving an empty beer bottle somewhere nearby will cause the gremlin to crawl inside and stop bothering you and your machinery.

There's more to it than this, but this is all I remember right now.

16:26 / 11.05.08

I have always been a staunch cynic when it comes to the occult - there's a Scully in your midst - but a number of recent experiences have catalysed a paradigm shift in this attitude.

I've done a (tiny) bit of reading on the subject of Chaos Magick, specifically A.O. Spare's method of constructing a sigil from the initial letters of a phrase which has meaning to the author.

The few sigils I have sculpted, despite resembling Sanscrit or asemic writing as opposed to Spare's more geometric/Greek, are nevertheless pleasing to the eye and certainly hold and are emblematic of the selected phrases. One or two of them have become fresh candidates for a tattoo I have been over-thinking for almost a decade.

A thought though - are there any dangers in tattooing a sigil of this kind, e.g. in meaning becoming muddied by over stylisation of the letters making up the sigil?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:02 / 11.05.08

"Muddying" the meaning of the original statement of intent, obfuscating it so that the conscious mind can no longer percieve it, is rather the point of sigilisation. On the rare occasions where I still use the things I try to make them look like anything but text. The only danger I can actually imagine would be if your carefully crafted design coincidentally happened to mean "public lavatory" in Indonesian or something.

11:26 / 14.05.08

Thanks Mordant, I'll be sure to post pics up somewhere around here when I've had it.

11:21 / 15.05.08

Yep, post some pics, machineisbored. I'm well interested.

Right, now for a particularly daft question. Does anyone have any information or theories on the old superstition about peoples' ears burning when someone's talking about them? I never understood what people meant when they talked about their ears burning until about a year ago. It's been driving me crazy - sometimes it's both ears, sometimes it's just one, and there seems to be no particular pattern about when or where it happens.

If someone's got a purely scientific explanation for why it happens then I'd love to hear it. However, an old wive's tale might be just as useful.

I'd like to thank anyone who takes the time out to post something in reply in advance. I have limited web access so when I've posted on this thread before by the time I get back to the thread to read the responses, it's already moved on. All contributions are gratefully recieved!

13:24 / 15.05.08

On that note, I also have a stupid question: have any of you heard of the "Crystal Babies"? They are supposed to be the next evolutionary step after the Indigo Babies. If you need more info about how I heard of them, I will provide, but first I wanted to hear "unbiased" responses...

I've heard of the crystal children. Its a terrifying idea.
Basically, it's a new age thing where spiritually advanced souls are being incarnated into human children to help bring about a change of conciousness. Indigo kids came first, crystal kids are the second batch.

Or, my interpretation, it's a way to avoid saying the word "autism" or "behavioural problems". I think it's unhealthy. If people believe we are entering a "new age" or whatever, that's fine. But to put that responsibility onto the head of a child is creepy and unkind. It's not a useful way of thinking for the kid to grow up with, and it just seems like an extended version of "my kids more amazing than your kid".

I think it's all bollocks. The only reason we have "crystal children" is because the bizzare promise of "indigo children" failed to materalise.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:31 / 15.05.08

Even better are the Indigo and (now! New and improved!!!) Crystal adults--mature people (at least in terms of time served) who have retconned themselves into the role of lightbearers for the new generation.

13:32 / 15.05.08

Sorry, that wasn't unbiased at all. And I hope that I've not done a turd in whatever interesting thoughs you are having.

But the Indigo/crystal thing pisses me off. I already believe that children are the future, children are free and that they are magical.

I don't need to believe that they are super-love-aliens to explain that, I just think that kids fucking rule.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:32 / 15.05.08

Me, I'm Ultraviolet. The visible spectrum is so 2003.

13:39 / 15.05.08

I am a Cristal Adult.

Seriously though. This has all the same potential issues as adopting an Otherkin worldview, only your asking a child to take on the responsibility of keeping the fantasy alive. That can't be healthy.

13:44 / 15.05.08

In my book "The Care and Feeding of Indigo Children", I wrote that ADHD should stand for Attention Dialed into a Higher Dimension. This would more accurately describe that generation. In the same vein, Crystal Children don't warrant a label of autism. They aren't autistic! They're AWE-tistic!

Doreen Virtue. PhD

Midwich, fucking, Cuckoos i call them. They ain't reading my mind and making me put my hand into boiling water again. Pests.

15:46 / 15.05.08

Munchausen syndrome by proxy, for the win.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:47 / 15.05.08

Many actual autistic people, meanwhile, have gone on record as thinking that Virtue (PhD!!!1!) and Co. are dangerously misguided and misguiding. See here, for example.

11:12 / 17.05.08

I have a client I care a great deal about. However, he is self destructing from paranoia, not sleeping, chain smoking. His misery is horrible. I have repeatedly urged him to get psychiatric help, get exercise, let it go....to no avail.

I am used to healing my own insanity, and would like to help this guy. Is is wrong to help him without his knowledge or permission? If it is not wrong, what sort of help would you suggest?

12:06 / 17.05.08

Personally, I'd say it's too complex to generalise about. But if I was going to generalise, I'd say yes.

But I'd be really really fucking careful. If someones already fucked up, just throwing magic at it probably won't help unless you understand the situation extremely well. Better, perhaps, than they do.

To be honest, this is the kind of thing I'd pray about rather than enchant. I, personally, don't think I have skills to mix magic and mental illness in a productive way. Espescially someone elses mental illnes.

From personal experience, (which, unfortunately, I have) I'd say doing much more than simple protective or blessing measures would be inviting a fuck up.

20:13 / 25.05.08

So, my adventures in Christianity are taking me to more and more exciting territory. Me and some friends from my prayer group/accountability group (coven?) have decided we would like to have a go at danced prayer. I've been asked to lead it as I'm a little bit physical theatre.

I'm fine with how I'm going to lead it, but I'm a bit stumped for music. Any suggestions? I know a lot of Temple people are interested in body alchemy and things like that, so what are you listening to during?

All suggestions welcome. Easily downloadable stuff would help.

I love you all.

Anna de Logardiere

11:05 / 26.05.08

Hi, does anyone know of any books about or with a chapter on talismanic shirts? I'm thinking particularly of Qu'ranic work from the 14th-18th centuries. Thanks.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:49 / 26.05.08

I'd never heard of such a thing, so I went on Google. Fascinating stuff. I did find this JSTOR article about an exhibition of such items, a link to some forthcoming books from the Tareq Rajab Museum, Kuwait, and a Ren-Fairey site (for all your "hey guys let's dress up and play Frankish invader!" needs) which has some bits on Islamic armour including talismanic shirts. I mention it only becuse I guess you could try emailing the site owner and ask if he has any book leads.

A Google search turns up a fair few museum exhibits; maybe you could phone the museums and ask about research avenues?

Anna de Logardiere

12:46 / 26.05.08

Emailing the site owners is a good plan and one that didn't occur to me earlier. Thanks!

15:45 / 26.05.08

Princess: it entirely depends on the group. Well, and I suppose the environment.

The easiest thing would probably be some kind of all-percussion thing like Stomp, or maybe just some drum tracks or drum loops (they have 'em out on the net for use in mixing). But depending on the group, you could just have a mini-rave or something. Or even go out to a club.

20:09 / 26.05.08

It's going to be held in a Church, and the group is three 20+ year olds. I think repetitive beats is a good idea. Thanks.

Can anyone suggest any other rescources?

16:46 / 27.05.08

I've been told that you should google "the Dances of Universal Peace". I don't know what they are, not having googled them myself.

06:05 / 29.05.08

Princess - about half of Cirque du Soleil music seems to be good for me. I mean, there's an entire genre called "Trance" that does in fact work for that purpose.

Afro-Celtic Sound System has good stuff for solid drums that nevertheless hits a lot of good buttons for Northern European types (though the images it draws up in my head combining traditional Irish Step dancing with Double Dutch jumprope are a little distracting).

Um... there are CDs filled with nothin' but drums for latin beats...

Mathew Fox was a Christian pastor (who I think is now Pagan) and is big on Rave Masses. My Mom seems to love him. I know little about him myself.

--Ember--

15:40 / 29.05.08

Mathew Fox was a Christian pastor (who I think is now Pagan) and is big on Rave Masses. My Mom seems to love him. I know little about him myself.

Former Catholic priest. Got formally silenced, then booted, by the current Pope (back when he was the head of the Inquisition) for being a bit too radical in his theology. Probably best known for The Coming of the Cosmic Christ and Original Blessing.

Plus: totally dreamy on Lost.

16:57 / 29.05.08

I'd never heard of Fox, and...

HAHAHAHA! He was received in 1994 into the Episcopal Church (Anglican Communion) by Bishop William Swing....

Oh, he would be, wouldn't he.

His "Creation Spirituality" theology sounds fascinating:

For Fox sin results not so much from disobedience with God's laws as it does from disconnectedness to God's creation. He compares the seven traditional sins to seven principles of Creation Spirituality: cosmology, feminism, liberation, compassion, prophecy, creativity, and community.

and

* Everyone is a prophet, a mystic in action, who is called to interfere with anything that interrupts authentic life.

* Humans have to dig and work at finding their true self.

* Salvation is best understood as "preserving the good."

* The journey that marks that digging can be named as a fourfold journey: 1) via positiva: delight, awe, wonder, revelry; 2) via negativa: darkness, silence, suffering, letting go; 3) via creativa: birthing, creativity; and 4) via transformativa: compassion, justice, healing, celebration.

* Everyone is an artist in some way, and art as meditation is a primary form of prayer.

20:47 / 29.05.08

*laughs* You know, I think if it hadn't been my Mom telling me all about him all this time, I'd have been more interested. He does sound pretty cool.

Wow, I'm a dork.

--Ember--

12:38 / 05.06.08

Sorry, I missed this thread when I was scrolling through the first page before, and I posted this in another thread (Mods, feel free to delete that one):

My knowledge of modern magic comes largely from Alan Moore and Grant Morrison, who both speak of summoning various entities. My main question is, "How literal is the term 'summoning' being used here?" Is this all a metaphor for invoking altered states of consciousness in the magician, or does the Flash really show up in your living room?

Ember pointed out that perhaps this is a false dichotomy. Perhaps altered states of consciousness let you see someone who is actually there. I guess my basic question, then, is how does summoning work? What's actually going on? This probably sounds stupid, but my base knowledge in this area is almost nonexistent. Any responses will be appreciated. Personal anecdotes especially so.

13:29 / 05.06.08

Also, as a follow-up, I recall reading somewhere about Alan Moore mention something about a journey, early on in his magical practice, to a "White Room" where he saw a bunch of male magicians of the past and--noting the lack of women--asking them if it was a "faggy boys' club" (I'm reasonably sure those were his words)? What is going on in this situation? He went on to say something about how he imagined there was a women's room somewhere. This makes it sounds as if he's talking about objectively real rooms outside of himself. Or am I misinterpreting, and this is just about something to do with where he was as a magician at the time: not fully incorporating enough of the female aspect into his magical practice, or something, and the lack of females in the room was his mind's way of telling him this?

Also, in the other thread I started, someone suggested that I summon the Flash and ask him these questions. Are there any good threads here that have a practical how-to section that would help me experiment and find some answers on my own?

Thanks, all, for indulging my ignorant questions.

16:00 / 05.06.08

Dusto:
Alan Moore also said that, "Everything magicians describe to you as having happened is 100% true... Just keep in mind that it has all happened in their heads."
Ok that may be paraphrased a bit.
I think his "white room" analogy is more an "In his own mind" introspection rather than a "real" place. When experienced and intensly visualized, it will be "real" enough...

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:01 / 05.06.08

I think these questions are very interesting, in that they raise something important about the nature of magical work.

The answer to "so, if you summon The Flash successfully, does the Flash actually appear in your living room?" is kind of "yes and no." IME you get... something. What you get will depend a lot on what you were trying for; we've had several discussions about the experiential differences between working with pop-culture figures and Gods-qua-Gods.

What I've found is that if I perform an effective ritual (and I personally don't like the term "summoning," it smacks of ordering the spirits around), Someone will likely show up.

How They manifest will vary. First of all though you don't get a puff of blue smoke and a full physical manifestation, with Vulcan tracking lava on your rug or whatever. It's usually a lot more subtle; there might be a vague sense of presence, or there might be a full-on visitation with mad streaming synesthesic data pouring into my head, maybe physically impossible stuff happening. In company it's gone as far as full possession, where I went offline for a bit and my God took over, imparting wisdom, discoursing knowledgably on topics I knew nothing about, and putting away a poisonous quantity of rum and cigarettes with no ill-effects later on.

As what's actually happening there, it's obviously hard to say. I can tell you that in my experience, a successful working will put me in touch with something that acts like an individual consciousness seperate to my own. You could of course argue that I'm simply bigger on the inside than I imagine and that what I'm talking to is a chunk of my subconscious; however, I find this line of questioning largely irrelevant. What I'm dealing with is so different from "myself" as I understand that Self, both in character and abilities, that treating Hir as seperate is the only approach that makes any sense.

As to Moore's white rooms: who knows. Without reading the piece myself it's hard to say. Maybe the women's room would represent the unintegrated feminine, maybe it would represent the advanced and respected female practitioners who have been forgotten by history and who need to be rediscovered. Why can't the room exist "only" in the subconscious and be real? It's a big place...

20:52 / 05.06.08

Thanks, I appreciate both of your answers. I of course wasn't expecting the answer to be "Yes, a demon appears in a puff of smoke," but it's interesting to hear that there is some form of physical manifestation, either visual or tactile.

Page: 1 ... 75 76 77 78 79(80)81 82 83