Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

Page: 1 ... 64 65 66 67 68(69)70 71 72 73 74... 83

04:30 / 02.10.07

I am just reading up a bit on guru-disciple relationships to start the thread and it seems there are a lot of people who take issue with them. I am not too surprised I have had my own difficulty with it. I really like this one statement, and I really want to share it.

As Julian P. Johnson correctly observes:

"If I were looking for a Master, I would first of all make the most critical inspection of the man's life to determine if he had any of the ordinary imperfections of character usually manifested by the average man. If I found him to be a perfect man, when studied as man, I would then begin my study of him as a Guru. But if he failed to pass inspection as a man, I would at once give up the search of him as Guru, or Master."

Other than the idiotic assumption that the master or guru would have to be a man, I quite agree with Mr.Johnson.

Quantum, it would be delightful to have you join the discussion on Gurus.

07:04 / 02.10.07

I don´t agree; why does a guru have to be a perfect woman/man? The guru should be able to practice what ze preaches, and ze may have noticeably less flaws than an average person. But even gurus can have bad (hair) days.

And how would a non-perfect person even know, if the guru is perfect? The guru would probably just fufill the deluded criteria of what applies as a perfect person for that guru-seeking perfectionist.

10:06 / 02.10.07

But even gurus can have bad (hair) days.

I guess I am not equating a bad day with a flawed character. Also, art of not having a flawed character is their being able to admit their shortcomings. However, the list should be a lot smaller than mine or most people I know, and it should be fairly inconsequential stuff. The key word for me is "character".

10:08 / 02.10.07

Sorry that part of not having a flawed character..., not "art".

Unconditional Love

23:10 / 02.10.07

I totally disagree with this, especially when it comes to for example priests/guru's i can think of one off the top of my head that has some truly wise and inspirational insights that used to run drugs, deal drugs, shot people, was involved in being shot himself and then reformed while in prison.

There are alot of people that do things that are looked down upon by the rest of society that end up as very powerful teachers, leaders. Two african teachers come to mind and there are hosts of others from a variety of different cultures that learn from their lives how to become more loving people and great teachers.

People who dont make mistakes do not seem to learn as well in my experience, its the admission of making mistakes that creates the learning and revelation in my experience. Personally i do not believe a perfect human being exists, just people doing the best they can.

I do not think there is a lot of difference between a guru and a rolemodel from what i am reading here, a rolemodel in the sense of a rolemodel for life. So for example the life of jesus or buddha.

By the way, calling yourself a stain seems wrong to me, why do you cast yourself down like that?

23:17 / 02.10.07

Keyword there, Wolfangel: reformed

Test to see if the reformation is true and perfect. Which means, as I have said before, that one is able to admit thei failings as well.

I think people are getting really hung up on the word "perfect".

23:18 / 02.10.07

By the way, calling yourself a stain seems wrong to me, why do you cast yourself down like that?

Down from where?

Unconditional Love

23:53 / 02.10.07

You describe youself as the worst stain on your linege which suggests to me (i could be wrong) that you maybe viewing others as more than yourself, and from comments you have made to me in the past you seem to be a compassionate and caring person that has alot to teach herself and others that has come from her own experience.

Its just that describing yourself as a stain seems well a little harsh on yourself.

I ment down as a figure of speech, as in feeling down.

Unconditional Love

23:57 / 02.10.07

i am really wary of perfect, especially in people, i guess i need to unpack that a bit . Trust being one issue and lessons of my own stupidity being another from placing people on a pedestal.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:42 / 04.10.07

I need some help from the resident runeheads. I want the runes for something along the lines of "Loki's Own." Granted, I could simply transcribe that into runes, but I'd prefer to use an ON translation (not necessarily a straight translation, a phrase with a similar meaning would be great). Anyone help?

15:02 / 04.10.07

I think you need an Old Norse-head. I'm not one - I can, however, suggest a hack.

There are plenty of objects in the record that have been inscribed with owner's names. I'd just use that form as a model, take out the name element and insert "Loki" (or whatever form possessive names would take).

I can look this up, if you like, but it'll take a bit of time and won't be, like, the work of a certified Old Norse-head.

Barring that, I don't think there *are* Old Norse-heads on this board, are there?

15:23 / 04.10.07

This might be useful. It's an article - really, a collection of tables - of Old Norse names & bynames. It's not enough to get the actual rules of possession (or the genitive case, if that's what you're after) exactly, but it has a few examples.

And, you know, the email address of a guy who'd know.

15:33 / 04.10.07

God, everything's on the net...

Old Norse for Beginners.

I'm thinking Lokar-object would be the form.

Wait - Lokasenna is the thing of Loki's isn't it? A senna, a flyting.

Lokas should be a plural, but it might be Lokas.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:34 / 04.10.07

Yeah, there's Lokasenna ("Loki's flyting") and Lokabrenna ("Loki's brand" or "Loki's burning"). So I'm thinking that this has to be Loka-something. I don't know how to represent the concept in ON though.

20:02 / 04.10.07

"Own" as a noun really means "owned thing," which seems a little peculiar the more I think of it (a nouned verb).

Here's an ON dictionary.

Definition 3 of sinn seems like it's right.

Emphasis on the seems. Interestingly, it's a pun for "time."

Sinn is singular, and I'd say sínu was plural, except the dictionary translates that once as "its," so maybe third person - although since it's "it will all go," maybe it'd be considered plural.

So, going out on a limb, I'd say Loka Sinn would be the phrase.

The word mót can mean "meet" or "meeting" or "own in common," but that's a verb, I think. The dictionary has it as a prepositional phrase (That thing to own in common).

20:12 / 04.10.07

Oh, and á is the transitive verb. Grantr á bát I think would mean "Grant owns a boat."

Hmm. The etymology of "own" (adj) says "eiginn" is the word.

20:27 / 04.10.07

Cancel that - eigin, n. (1) one's own, one's property; (2) new sprout of corn. has to be it.

Lokaseigin would be the name of a thing that is Loki's thing.

"Sin" is a reflexive pronoun, probably something like the suffix -self.

Closed for Business Time

21:03 / 04.10.07

Lokaseigin I would render Loke's own, not Loke's thing. Own in the adjectival sense. I can't seem to find anywhere that would show me the genitive of Loke, and I'm darned if I can remember that much from way back when we did Norse in school.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:40 / 04.10.07

Either Loki's thing or Loki's own-in-the-adjectival-sense would suit my porpoise. And I like the ear of corn thing too.

02:27 / 05.10.07

Nolte! Is Norse-head!

My phrasing meant what he said, too. I just phrased it wrong in English. Loki's own.

Rock!

Unconditional Love

03:49 / 05.10.07

A question about spiritual shopping, in my practice which is currently based around the 7 classical planets and some deity work related to the planets and supernal's i am pretty content with the results of the practice and how it seems to be balancing out certain areas of my life.

Now because i have started a martial art certain associations have come up for me, Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism its because me starting a martial art and my interests in these areas are associated.

Now my planetary work is pretty much western esoteric based.

Basically my practice seems to be in danger of incorporating elements from all over the world and becoming more akin to appropriation than a representation of a multi faith pluralistic culture.

Now i kind of wonder at what point a simple interest in a variety of cultural view points and desire to work with them becomes a point of disrespect for those cultures.

So for example if i have a solid western esoteric practice based around planets and then begin to work with Kali off in another room or in the same space, what exactly is going on there?

The cultures around me when i go out no longer seem distinct, people are mixing, ideas are colliding, at what point does a pluralistic practice become a disrespect for a given cultures view point?

Is this largely more dependent on a political view point than a spiritual one?

Closed for Business Time

09:37 / 05.10.07

Gee, that's awfully nice grant, but in fairness to any other Norwegian lurking around here, we all had to do some of the Eddas and Sagas in the original and learn the basic grammar and stuff. A lot of it is still quite similar to modern Norwegian and Icelandic (maybe more so the Icelandic, not sure).

Anyway, the words sin/sinu is, as you say, a reflexive pronoun that is used to indicate ownership. You could translate a phrase like Lokasin as Loke's, the clitic 's does much the same job as sin/sinnu.

10:19 / 05.10.07

Icelandic (maybe more so the Icelandic, not sure).

I have understood that modern Icelandic is indeed less different than the Icelandic of the sagas and eddas than either Swedish or Norwegian is from the language of similar age.

Okay, that's nearly incomprehensible, I should sleep now.

--Ember--

14:33 / 05.10.07

The cultures around me when i go out no longer seem distinct, people are mixing, ideas are colliding, at what point does a pluralistic practice become a disrespect for a given cultures view point?

That's far too complicated a question for this thread, I think.

If it helps with your specific practice, Western planetary associations came from Sumerian astrology, as far as I know. I don't know enough about Indian astrology to know if the same planetary qualities carry over there.

Unconditional Love

18:05 / 05.10.07

Thank you grant i should of cued that in, i know the Sumerian correspondence, and can try to find evidence between the Indus valley civilisations and ancient Sumeria, or look at Persian planetary correspondence and cross reference them to indian.

I will see.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:42 / 11.10.07

I took my rune question over to the Troth forums and got some feedback. Seems that egin might be better as a suffix than eigin, as the latter turns up at the beginning of compounds whereas the former appears after the first word. Also, it seems I would not need the -s; the s in Lokasenna belongs to the word "senna." So I'm looking at Lokaegin, unless I follow one of the alternate suggestions given by the other posters.

One of these would be to substitute a noun for the tricky "own," which would be much simpler to render. A friend of mine has a tatt reading Lokagyðja (Loki's priestess). The other would be a phrase meaning given to Loki; gefinn Othni means given to Odin, so if I can work out the correct form for the deity name I could use that.

11:17 / 11.10.07

Depending on whether you're trying to keep it simple, or make it more symbolic, narrow your focus, or be all-encompasing... you might consider swapping another kenning in for "Loka" - especially one that emphasizes the aspect of Loki you are most connected with.

I have found that kenning emphasis has helped me a great deal in some of my workings with the Norse powers. Each of the gods (I'm including Aesir, Vanir, and Jotuns in that) has such a complex personality with so many aspects. It's not that I'm not willing to face the unexpected, per se, but choosing which name to call, say, Freya, amounts to a reasonable request that She show more of that aspect, or show that aspect in that particular instance.

Does that make sense?

--Ember--

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:57 / 11.10.07

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, for my Guy a sketch with lots sweets, fizzy drinks and raver toys might encourage a more playful manifestation, as opposed to the sort of Wolf's-Father vibe encouraged by a ritual involving a wild location, a big fire and a more animalistic atmosphere.*

For the purposes of this tattoo though I want to go for something a bit more global. I don't want to focus on any particular trait; it's meant to be a tangible sign of accepting the whole package.

*Although there is of course nothing to say that the God might not decide that the guys doing the Father-of-Monsters invocation needed to lighten up a little--or that the toy-and-sweetie people needed the frightners put on them a bit.

Unconditional Love

09:12 / 14.10.07

Question about Saraswati, why is she sometimes depicted with a peacock and what's the relevance of this vehicle to her or its symbolism?

12:08 / 14.10.07

From Wikipedia on Saraswati:

Sometimes a peacock is shown beside the goddess. The peacock represents arrogance and pride over its beauty, and by having a peacock as her mount, the Goddess teaches Hindus not to be concerned with external appearance and to be wise regarding the eternal truth.

This makes sense to me.

However, This site on Hindu Deities states:

A peacock is sitting next to Saraswati and is anxiously waiting to serve as Her vehicle. A peacock depicts unpredictable behavior as its moods can be influenced by the changes in the weather. Saraswati is using a swan as a vehicle and not the peacock. This signifies that one should overcome fear, indecision, and fickleness in order to acquire true knowledge.

Still, there is Pincha Mayurasana (or peacock feather pose) in yoga, where there is some description about the relevance of the peacock to Saraswati.

Unconditional Love

03:36 / 15.10.07

Thanks for that. Something else that begs me to differ with a lot of the above is that by looking at a series of images of Saraswati i have noticed that she clearly uses the peacock as a vehicle and also carries a peacock eye in the crown/diadem she is wearing. Looking at ancient images she seems to appear with the peacock quite a lot.

I wonder if it has something to do with her relationship to sound which then produces form in Hindu cosmology as far as i am aware sound is the primal manifestation.

The older symbolism of peacocks seems to represent a kind of majestic beauty, nobility and confidence. i wonder just how much of the symbolic attributes as they are described only reflect the values of certain traditions within Hinduism.

I also wonder whether the vehicles of the Devi and Deva represent negative qualities, i am not so sure that that is there original intent.

Unconditional Love

04:23 / 15.10.07

Their is also this from the above wikipedia article:

'Saraswati is credited, in association with Indra, with killing the serpentine being Vritraasura, a demon which hoarded all of the earth's water and so represents drought, darkness.'

Peacocks are often alluded too as killing snakes and being able to swallow snake venom, i wonder. More research.

Unconditional Love

05:09 / 15.10.07

Also the idea of a beautiful dance, a display, several sources relate how the peacock is a symbol of music, dance and arts something very much related to Saraswati.

There are also stories relating her to menstruation, not in the best context centring on it as impure and a curse, but it does seem to be an echo of her role as a river goddess and her relationship to much earlier ideas of fertility, perhaps.

Many later attributes seem to be absorbed from Brahma and her association as his partner/daughter.

I am getting this from Exotic India the Indian art site which has commentaries about various statues etc from a variety of Indian professors. The is a book their which seems to address what i am looking for Sri Sarasvati

Unconditional Love

08:15 / 15.10.07

Saraswati is also celebrated at the festival known as Basant Panchami which indicates the coming of spring, which leads me to speculate more about her role in fertility, not to mention the connotations of a flowing river and the idea of water and subsistence life giving qualities.

Unconditional Love

09:02 / 15.10.07

Peacock as vehicle

Notes on the peacock and swan in indian art

More ideas here and a representation of what i was describing of Saraswati and her vahana

Page: 1 ... 64 65 66 67 68(69)70 71 72 73 74... 83