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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Quantum
15:09 / 10.06.07
That would be the WRONG Dennis, whining about Mr Wilson and stuff. I want my contemporary trickster figures to wear stripey jumpers and harass softies, which seems to be the main purpose of trickster figures I've encountered on the net, to badger effete liberals who are girly.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:11 / 10.06.07
No, the other Dennis the Menace.

Are pop culture characters equivalent to gods?

Limited avatars maybe, but equivalents? Even interpretations of gods, fleshed out as they may be, are limited avatars, just as Quantum, lolcot herder and the reams of irritated trickster induced posting is a limited avatar of your fine self. I think a similar discussion about Beyonce in relation to a Goddess is floating around the Temple, though I can't find it.

Not on Barbelith, it usually ends in a huff or banning and reams of irritated posting.

Depends on your definition of positive I guess - at the very least, the irritated posters are less likely to claim to be tricksters. Of course, Mr Wilson got pretty irritated too if I remember correctly.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:14 / 10.06.07
LMAO Quantum... can't tell me that's not a positive, Trickster related result.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:19 / 10.06.07
Copyright Big Screen Productions.
 
 
Quantum
15:19 / 10.06.07
(request in to fix your html)

I should have made it clear, I am aware of the US 'Dennis' but don't believe him to be a genuine menace. Even Walter could kick his teeth in.

Dennis is an avatar of Anansi?



RLY?
 
 
Quantum
15:20 / 10.06.07
can't tell me that's not a positive, Trickster related result.

O RLY? That's not a positive, Trickster related result.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:27 / 10.06.07
A limited avatar, just as Marilyn Monroe is a limited avatar of female sexuality; there's so much to archetypes that it's difficult to embody them, especially in a modern world that shuns some of their darker aspects. It's not like a childrens program is going to get away with claiming that Dennis' pranks are on his fathers behalf, that he created the Sun, or has the power to make it rain, and whilst these attributes are a common theme amongst some Trickster Gods, it's not amongst all of them - being a prankster is however.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:30 / 10.06.07
As I said, it depends on your definition of positive. Laughter is positive, and it wouldn't have occurred in this instance if we wern't discussing Coyote, the discussion of which is directly related to his existance.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:34 / 10.06.07
Also, the liberal thing? That's not a positive, Trickster related result.
 
 
Quantum
15:36 / 10.06.07
Oh, my mistake- if you mean that fictional characters act in a prankster manner, then you're right, fictional characters play pranks. If you mean they are a minor archetype of Anansi, or Coyote, I'd like to know what that means. Waht do you mean by Avatar? "The incarnation (bodily manifestation) of a higher being (deva), or the Supreme Being (God) onto planet Earth."?
link
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:44 / 10.06.07
Avatar

1. Hindu Mythology. the descent of a deity to the earth in an incarnate form or some manifest shape; the incarnation of a god.
2. an embodiment or personification, as of a principle, attitude, or view of life.
3. Computers. a graphical image that represents a person, as on the Internet.


Avatars in the sense of 1. are a hard thing to recognise; I don't feel comfortable in saying that they rarely happen.

Avatars in the sense of 2. are easy to recognize, and this is what I mean when I speak of Dennis being a limited avatar of the Trickster; he embodies some of the trickster archetype (in my mind, the most important aspects) however not all the aspects, which would probably leave him looking pretty funny because he'd be this weird, chicken, coyote, rabbit, man amalgum that had sex with ducks whilst making it rain suns, or something.
 
 
EvskiG
15:45 / 10.06.07
Strangely, both the U.S. and Britain have entirely different Dennis the Menace cartoon characters.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:47 / 10.06.07
And they came out within three days of one another.
 
 
Quantum
15:48 / 10.06.07
So, Dennis is a trickster? OK. That's not what I thought you meant, and I'm still not sure why you need the word 'avatar' there.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:51 / 10.06.07
'Analog' might be a better word choice perhaps?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:56 / 10.06.07
'Analog' might be a better word choice perhaps?

Only if you're comparing two Tricksters, i.e Dennis and Anansi, however avatar is a better choice because it embodies to some degree the archetype/god/energy that is the Trickster; for instance, I wouldn't say that Anansi *is* the Trickster nor would I say he's an analog of the Trickster, however I would say he's an avatar (perhaps wider in scope then Dennis) of the Trickster.
 
 
Quantum
15:57 / 10.06.07
Maybe.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:07 / 10.06.07
I fear I may openly weep.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:08 / 10.06.07
Sorry, but there's a lot on that page... can you specify what that maybe is about?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:15 / 10.06.07
Look, this discussion is pretty much pointless, which is why I didn't want to have it in the first place. Could we possibly spin it off if we really want to go around how I channelled John Lennon as an avatar of Orpheus just like King Mob again, and keep this thread for questions?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:21 / 10.06.07
Not everyone bases their magical opinions on The Invisbles or posts on Barbelith because they've read the comic book.
 
 
Blake Head
16:21 / 10.06.07
Maybe someone could start, or resurrect, a proper thread on the figure of the Trickster elsewhere? And a full Film & TV comparison of Dennis and Dennis if they feel the need.

Anyway, I still have a genuinely stupid question:

RA BLISS. Does anyone have any idea what this might be about? Is it related to Buddhism? Is it made up? What gives? Does anyone know?
 
 
*
16:22 / 10.06.07
The figure of the Trickster, insofar as I can tell, is always to destabilize the dominant powers and norms of a society and help those marginalized by them. Given that the dominant powers and norms of the society in which Dennis the Menace is now a part are consumerist, youth-worshiping, male, heterosexual, and white, can you and would you please explain realistically and truthfully how the figure of Dennis the Menace acts to destabilize these powers and norms?
 
 
*
16:23 / 10.06.07
Ooops. Crossposted. Slowly.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:23 / 10.06.07
Basically the whole thing, dude, the whole tedious pile of wank you've managed to generate. I am viewing the text through a haze of boredom tinged with despair. Oh ho, pop-cultural icons can be seen as manifestations of the mythical Trickster figure, you say? Well I never. What a refreshing notion. Certainly worth several vacuous one-line posts.

Of course I could be being totally unfair here. You may actually have done long-term work with Tricksters both pop-cultural and deific in a magical context upon which you are basing your assertions, in which case I apologise unreservedly and look forward to benefitting from your experience.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:24 / 10.06.07
That last to Mako.
 
 
Quantum
16:35 / 10.06.07
can you specify what that maybe is about?

Sorry, bad link. I meant to link to my post last page where I used the word 'analogue', in response to Elijah.

I'm starting a pop culture vs. religion thread to discuss whether or not Dennis=Coyote.

Blake Head, I've never heard of RA BLISS- where did you hear about it/them?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:36 / 10.06.07
can you and would you please explain realistically and truthfully how the figure of Dennis the Menace acts to destabilize these powers and norms?

Answer: he doesn't, of course, and only someone with a paper-thin understanding of the Trickster archetype would suggest otherwise.

PS: it is okay for me to be stroppy as I'm playing the sacred trickster, woo, fish, python quote.
 
 
*
16:40 / 10.06.07
I'm not finding any good information through a google search on ra bliss either... mostly ridicule, and one scientific paper that turned out to have to do with spectrometry and nothing whatever about meditation.
 
 
Blake Head
16:46 / 10.06.07
Well, the author of the last book I read seems to be right into it, and the main Google results throw up what is, I think, their blog, where it's linked with Vajrayana Buddhism - and though I increasingly get the feeling it might be a personal and possibly half-baked neologism I thought I'd ask the clever Temple folks if it had any associations they were familiar with. Just curious.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:54 / 10.06.07
The figure of the Trickster, insofar as I can tell, is always to destabilize the dominant powers and norms of a society and help those marginalized by them.

In the neighbourhood of Dennis, Mr Wilson is a retired postman whose attitude towards Dennis, his friends, and their attempt to enjoy life, is far from hospitable, even though for the most part Dennis means well. The norms that Mr Wilson represents, especially upon his inception in 1951, are white, middle/upper class, conservatist attitudes towards younger generations, which can be enforced due to stable financial position and inherrent social structure; dominant powers and norms that whilst weakened over the past 50 years, are still in place today.

Whilst western society is, in an advertising sense at least, geared towards the "consumerist, youth-worshiping, male, heterosexual, and white" cult, this demographic is not that of Dennis and he doesn't support their ideals - he's not 15-35, he's not sexual, he has no cash, and his sex and race are products of his previous incarnations. His interactions with friends don't involve the latest consumer products, and in the most modern incarnation his best friends include a african american male and and asian female; basically he's destablizing the image that you've presented, in that his is a simple and immaterial life which relies more interacting with friends and being active outside the home environment, as opposed to buying the latest games console and games.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:56 / 10.06.07
One of his best friends is black, you know. Could we continue this in another thread? Perhaps "The Temple Sump"? It's a good idea whose time has come, and I think we all know it.
 
 
Blake Head
16:58 / 10.06.07
On further investigation it's looking half-baked, if not perhaps even fully baked. Thanks to Q & Z for indulging my ignorance, and sort of confirming my suspicions - I wouldn't waste any more time on it.
 
 
Quantum
17:00 / 10.06.07
basically he destablizing the image that you've presented

By golly, you're right, he *is* a trickster, shattering our reality tunnels. He's a satirical figure really.

Chris Morris is the pre-eminent living avatar of Coyote. Prove me wrong.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
17:04 / 10.06.07
So unless someone's reality tunnel gets smashed good and proper, the Trickster isn't present?
 
  

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