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DC Universe Surgery

 
  

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:20 / 20.03.07
Freedom Beast was recently recruited into the Global Guardians and was, from what I know, last seen kicking the **** out of Hal Jordan while under the control of questionable subatomic alien telepaths from Saturn known as the Faceless Hunters.
 
 
matthew.
17:53 / 28.03.07
I know that Mister Terrific is the third smartest man in the DCU. I know that Batman and Lex are up there as well, but who's smarter? Batman or Lex? And, who's behind Mister Terrific? Is it... The Atom? Or perhaps... The Question? Who's up there?
 
 
grant
18:06 / 28.03.07
Does "man" necessitate "human"?

Because various Braniacs, natch. And probably whoever built Red Tornado (I can't remember who did, actually).
 
 
Mario
18:13 / 28.03.07
Ivo built Reddy.

But I think that "man" does imply human, and indeed Terran. Which may not matter, since we're talking about an offhand comment relating to a concept that lacks a firm definition anyway.

What do they mean by smart? The ability to learn new skills? Tactical brilliance? Scientific ability? Photographic memory? Problem solving?

For that matter, who is to say Holt wasn't being humble?

(In other words, there's no solid answer)
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:56 / 28.03.07
I think it's just a running joke, even to Holt. Someone probably said it in all seriousness about him once, and now it's kind off stuck as a catchphrase, just the way something might in real life if someone says something particularly silly. I certainly can't imagine Holt's tongue isn't firmly in his cheek when he repeats it.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:58 / 28.03.07
As an add on, I think the phrase is "3rd smartest man on Earth", just to clarify the alien hyper intelligence/android front.
 
 
matthew.
01:34 / 29.03.07
Mmm... I seemed to have screwed up there. I definitely meant "human being from Planet Earth". I guess I can't edit that without screwing up above posts. Whoops! My apologies.
 
 
BrianFitzgerald
11:46 / 29.03.07
Ivo built Reddy.

Wasn't it T.O. Morrow who built him?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
12:03 / 29.03.07
Aye, Ivo built Amazo and Tomorrow Woman.

New question: how many times has Two-Face been healed and re-scarred? I can think of at least two, but I'm sure there are more.
 
 
Mario
13:04 / 29.03.07
I have a cold.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:04 / 29.03.07
T.O. Morrow built Red Tornado but utterly failed to understand how he managed to do it, or rather, how he managed to make an android who was clearly more evolved/human than he should have been (this was the Tornado Champion's presence).

Even then, he only built him by means of a future technology called a Humanizatron that was essentially plagiarised from the future, so his true super-genius is in doubt.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
17:11 / 29.03.07
It takes a very special kind of personality to build a television that lets you see 100 years into the future, reverse-engineer miraculous devices from the next century that allow you to do almost anything, and then decide that the most lucrative career path stemming from this is robbery.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:16 / 29.03.07
Hey now, Morrow's had a hard life. What with all the being split into multiple selves, occasionally appearing to be ripped off of Hector Hammond, such-like. But was he in it for the robbery or the power? Seems he was always trying to rule the world rather than following the "Career Paths for Flash Rogues" handbook.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
17:43 / 29.03.07
1. Find future cure for cancer.
2. Patent it.
3. Buy planet.

I mean, come on, Morrow.
 
 
gridley
18:15 / 29.03.07
Yeah, but most people would just buy the black market version of his anti-cancer drugs from Canada and Mexico and Morrow wouldn't see a dime of it! Then he'd flip out and there'd be giant robotic monkey attacks on those countries as payback and then the superheroes would come in, all masks and capes, and poor Morrow would end up right back in jail.... just another evil criminal doing time.
 
 
murphy
18:58 / 29.03.07
When a person is super-duper smart, he or she encouraged (by some) to use the intelligence to do stuff like cure cancer, perfect water desalinization technology, etc.

When someone has scads of money, the pressure is to use some of the money for humanitarian means: set up foundations and stuff to address societal badness.

When a person has fame, that person is encouraged to use said fame to bring attention to world issues (the environment, the AIDS pandemic, failing school systems, child poverty, etc.).

In short: when a person has extraordinary abilities and/or recognition, that person is encouraged, if not expected, to use those abilities to serve the greater good. This is the societal expectation, and is augmented by one’s personal set of ethics.

So why are superheroes not held to the same standard? Why can Superman so blithely turn a blind eye to droughts throughout the world, terrorism, ecological disaster, slums and other substandard housing, contemporary slavery, global industry pillaging, etc.?

Oh sure, he'll stop a comet from destroying the Earth, and smash Mongul in the face, and foil Brainiac’s latest scheme, and that’s fine. But if you ask him to address the shrinking of rain forests, or political corruption, or any other global issue, he'll squawk something about how human beings need to fend for themselves, and recognize their own potential.

If you are going to be a citizen of Earth, you need to help make the Earth a better place. And smacking around bad guys doesn’t count. Who’s with me?
 
 
rhedking
02:26 / 30.03.07
Fighting homelessness and poverty makes for a fairly boring book. Besides I think the line is that Supes leaves the human problems for humans to solve...by smashing comets and Mogul he allows humans to do so. A Supes as Jesus would make for an interesting one shot tho.
 
 
Mario
09:48 / 30.03.07
Elliot S! Maggin pretty much sewed up the "Super-Messiah" story back in the 70's, especially in the novels and the "Sword of Superman" issue.
 
 
grant
13:44 / 30.03.07
That was basically the theme of the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up/road movie story in the 70s.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
13:51 / 30.03.07
Alien starfish Itty, of course, being the Christ figure.
 
 
Chew On Fat
16:20 / 30.03.07
Have any of you read Alex Ross's Superman:Peace on Earth?

The whole book is about Superman deciding one Xmas that for this one day no-one on Earth will go to bed hungry.
There are no Supervillians or jaw-punching, but its a good story.

Poor Kal is badly humbled by how fallen our old world is though...

It'd break his big heart if he had to wrestle with the stuff in this book every day.

I think the key to Superman and why he's so cool is 'Marvelman/Miracleman'. Every day Superman has the choice of standing on the sidelines and letting us find our own way, or just stepping in and completely re-making the world.

Moore's Marvelman made the second choice and who knows if it was the right one? He did have to make himself Dictator for life though to carry it through.

Poor Kal is a more humble hayseed. He schleps through his days getting shouted at by Perry White and changing his clothes in dirty old telephone boxes. He rights the wrongs he sees, one by one. And at the end of the day he goes home to the wife.

He seems to have decided long ago that there is some worth in being one of us - fallen as we are....
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:28 / 30.03.07
Fighting homelessness

My brain turned this into fighting homeless people.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
17:55 / 30.03.07
Well, he did that, too for a few memorable months in the 90s. You can get a lot of money if you have all of the issues of the "Super Scourge of Skid Row" storyline.
 
 
gridley
18:12 / 30.03.07
My brain turned this into fighting homeless people.

 
 
murphy
01:27 / 02.04.07
I guess my question above (as well as some ramblings in the Civil War thread) was my subconscious' way to argue why superhero comics can't be "realistic."

I think the last 20 years, or so, of American superhero comics (Identity Crisis being the most recent that I can think of) have been rife with writers using murder and misogyny and rape and so on to make comics more "real"; I particularly remember but can't specifically cite a Geoff Johns interview where he thrilled to Brad Meltzer's horrible I.D. Crisis as being the height of realism in comics.

In reality, though, there are seldom times when a master villain is behind the scenes. Environmental degradation, political corruption, corporate greed, institutionalized racism/sexism/genderism/etc-ism, pandemics, and such are the real threats to humanity, and Dr. Doom isn't behind any of them. It isn't Brainiac who is shrinking the rain forests.

Further, the way to fight these threats isn't through actual fighting. When Captain American throws his mighty shield, he can't make a fraction of the dent dealt by a well-organized work force, or of a fully connected, multi-tiered grassroots coalition.

Earth-1: Superman trounces the Parasite, and all is good. Earth-Prime: a small group of dedicated people can (hopefully) change the world.

But that's okay. As many people have stated, a comic about, for instance, letter writing campaigns and demonstrations doesn't make for a particularly entertaining funny book. It's more fun to leave the comics shop with capes and masks, as opposed to agendas (although Animal Man for example gave us both).

Wally Sage mused something like only a frustrated teenager could confuse cynicism with realism. I wish more comics creators would read his words.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
03:18 / 02.04.07
"SNIKKT ..."

(sp, poss?)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
03:25 / 02.04.07
Oh God ... wrong universe.

Well anyway 'we know so many lovely ways to kil him,' from this angle, yes we do.
 
 
Mario
11:41 / 02.04.07
"Realism" is a slippery subject, when you are dealing with a universe that has documented evidence of aliens, gods, and demons.

There are at least three things to consider:

1) A good story requires that suspension of disbelief be minimized. Most readers will be willing to accept a certain amount of unreality if it's at least internally consistent.

2) "Realism" doesn't have to be cynical or depressing. I'd much rather read a comic about a happily married couple who run a detective agency (of sorts), than one that involves rape and murder. Both are equally realistic, even if the husband CAN stretch.

3) Reality is boring. That's why we read comics.
 
 
doctorbeck
13:32 / 02.04.07
i think some of this has been fairly well looked at in The Authority and made for interesting reading, but not enough to sustain a series for 40 years, which is what it comes down to i suppose.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:45 / 02.04.07
There was a decent column by Erik Larsen a while ago about how Marvel could only sustain their image as the "realistic" company (compared to DC back in the old days) by being wholly unrealistic.

It's an interesting thing to think about: generating a more recognisably "realistic" world for readers actually requires more "unrealism."
 
 
grant
17:27 / 02.04.07
Earth-1: Superman trounces the Parasite, and all is good. Earth-Prime: a small group of dedicated people can (hopefully) change the world.

But that's okay. As many people have stated, a comic about, for instance, letter writing campaigns and demonstrations doesn't make for a particularly entertaining funny book.


Dennis O'Neil, Neal Adams and two dudes in green, 1970.

 
 
murphy
17:49 / 02.04.07
I've seen that panel over and over over the years, but I've never actually read the exploits of the hard-travelling heroes.

Does it hold up as the comic with a conscience that history has declared it?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:53 / 02.04.07
I remember reading it a few years ago. Sonar seemed to feature heavily for some reason, despite being a tragic case of underdeveloped villainy. The series more had moments of this clarity rather than something overwhelming...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:08 / 02.04.07
So, just curious in light of this "Helmet of Fate" broo-ha-ha, but has anyone ever referred to the fact that J'onn J'onzz briefly wore the helmet in the first Giff/D-Matt Justice League annual, when everybody was being possessed by something not unlike the Sublime aerosol cellular colony thingee?

Actually, has anyone ever referred to J'onn having said Sublime prototype in his own body (keeping it prisoner) ever since?
 
 
Eskay Uno
18:24 / 04.04.07
Can someone please explain the difference between Vixen and Animal Man's powers?

Buddy is an old favorite, and I've been enjoying Vixen's appearances in the JLU animated series. Both are fun, cool, and underused characters with almost identical abilities. Is the difference merely in how they access their animal aptitudes? And, um, who'd win in a fight?
 
  

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