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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Batman Begins

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07:30 / 23.06.05

Also, Alfred does manage to creep up on Ducard and clip him one with a 9 iron.

No he didn't.

As for a preprogrammed Batmobile, well, the vehicle does give Gordon verbal directions. Occam's razor would suggest that the reason it gives directions is so that Gordon can follow them. There's nothing to suggest he isn't driving.
That said, I think you're missing the point. It's a silly action movie contrivance. As a way of articulating Gordon and Batman's unity of purpose and friendship it's hamfisted and awkward.

01:13 / 01.07.05

I don't know if anyone thought about this one here.

But Vincent Cassel could make a nice Joker (by looks, at least). Was said that Sean Penn could be the Joker. Now I think he's a fine actor (maybe the best of his generation), but him as joker simply by his looks just ruins for me. It's like Jack Nicholson, there isn't anything at all that would pass as the Joker in my book... (ps: I hated him as Joker. Too campy and too chubby-old-like). I read somewhere else Adrian Brody was also being considered. That's a guy who could be a damn good Joker in my nerdy opnion. And Crispin Glover would be quite awesome (my only problem would be that he's marty mcfly's geeky dad... that's always hard to wipe off...

)

now this guy... (maybe you'll remember him from Ocean's 12 and Irreversible. Looks are bullseye to me, but don't know if he'd be a scary Joker in the acting)

05:50 / 01.07.05

*wet pants*

That or play the Corinthian. Basserd's got teethy eyes.

07:37 / 01.07.05

So who did Alfred hit with the 9 Iron before he went into the building to get Bruce from under the flaming log? Why does my brain make this stuff up? WHy can't it just let me watch a film?

10:43 / 01.07.05

A random Ninja, I reckon.

Ra's got into a fake S.W.A.T. van with some of his buddies.

13:04 / 01.07.05

It was indeed one of Ra's bodyguards/ninjas who Alred hits. Then Alfred has a silly line like "I sure hope you weren't a member of the fire brigade."

18:52 / 01.07.05

I prefer to think of them as his "buddies" rather than as his "bodyguards/ninjas."

19:58 / 01.07.05

Somehow I don't think they nip down the Rat & Parrot after a good night's ninjaring.

20:23 / 01.07.05

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Brigade du jour

22:16 / 01.07.05

Oui Batman, je suis le prince de crime clownesque. En garde!

Fuck man, I think Cassel would be ace.

16:42 / 02.07.05

A few more coherent thoughts on my part about this movie...

I was interested in the effect that using The League of Shadows has on our perceptions of Batman, in that Batman's violent vigilante tactics seem moderate to the audience by comparison. I wonder how deliberate this downplaying of the character's dubious morality was on the part of the writers.

I also liked the way they took the death of Bruce's parents and made it something with no definable centre. It's essentially meaningless, but the conundrum of whether Bruce is responsible, or his father, or Chill, or the Depression, or the League of Shadows allows Batman's motivations to be a really thick, murky mix of losing his outlet for revenge, guilt, justice and responsibility.

I've noticed there are a few people I'd expect to have seen this who haven't commented... I'm really interested to hear what people think of this, because for me on third viewing I have to say its the best comic to film adaptation, period.

22:02 / 02.07.05

Re: whether or not it's clear Ducard was always Ra's: note that all the characters called "Ra's Al Ghul" in the film, Neeson, Watanabe, and the guy at the party, all have the same long, wispy white whiskers coming down from the side of their mouth. It's a pretty clear giveaway, to me; the whiskers are the badge of rank, almost.

More tomorrow when I've slept on it... but I finally saw it, and it was very, very good.

Also, I need to photoshop up a Bateman Begins poster ASAP.

22:13 / 02.07.05

I just couldn't get over the sheer Bateman-ness of Wayne. Hence:

23:22 / 02.07.05

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Regrettable Juvenilia

23:28 / 02.07.05

Fucking incredible movie - loved it. I have no complaints, and I'm VERY pleased that I was unspoiled about things like the guy who leaves the "calling card" and the true identity of Ras Al Ghul*. Great acting throughout, tight plot, and interestingly structured - loved how big that first action sequence is, I really didn't expect him to fucking TOTAL the League of Shadows' base like that.

"I'm buying this hotel."

*Which is to say, Ducard, Liam Neeson, all along. Not a viral personality.

Regrettable Juvenilia

23:37 / 02.07.05

Oh, and loved Bale as the dropping-out-of-Princeton, disaffected, revenge-inclined Wayne. I also really liked how many conversations people have with him in the film in which some of the ethical quandries are discussed: how does Batman feel about 'criminals' who are stealing so they don't starve? What about the risks of all that property damage superheroes inevitably bring with them? What about escalation? It's a movie that's not afraid to be smart when it's appropriate and stoopid when it's appropriate.

Well done to Nolan for getting great performances out of Oldman and Neeson, who have been terrible in more terrible films than is ever acknowledge.

Tryphena Absent

00:39 / 03.07.05

Bats through the windows! Hell, yeah!

I just thought this was a really neat film, very nicely pieced together, I felt very sympathetic towards Bruce and it's so rare to get a comic adaptation where all of the characters are so filled out. You learn so much about Gordon simply through the visuals.

What struck me is that they downplayed everything, not just the violent vigilante tactics but they really kept the general direction on an even keel so no emotional responses were overplayed. The technology was the most obviously dramatic part of the film but the general emotions were well introduced so that they were always the main focus. The beginning allowed the car and grappling hooks to be a small but necessary part of the movie. When subtly was needed it was always employed. Yay!

10:59 / 04.07.05

so they steal a microwave on its way to wayne towers because? they want to, um, take it to wayne towers on a train? okay, so they hate mankind's reliance on boats, lorries and things, pesky league of shadows.

looking forward to the next one mainly to see katie holmes cry/die - yes, your husband is going to get half his face torn off and have the repressed side of his personality take over/go mad. sorry! no parallels with your real life there at all!

the fighting was fine for the first few scenes, imagine how fast and scary it would be, but you've got to see him take a bit of close-up punishment and then pay it all back. it was all flurry flurry and no crunch crunch. bythe end and he's doing those four ninjas we should have had lots of broken knees and jaw.

the city was good and the scarerow very. just having the rest of his 'evil costume' be a suit was poifect. nice to have an alfred who can hold the screen rather than just dodder, but where were all the lines? 'don't chuck a batarang til you see the whites of their eyes, you're only supposed to blow the bloody train up, my boss is batman and n.a.l.o.p.k.t' hilarious, yes, thanks. liked not having to see the pearl necklace spill all over the floor, was worried that flashes of that sequence could account for half the screen-time. the hallucinating kid in the narrows, where she kind of talks him through it, 'no no it's not mothman really don't worry' - kinda ruins his later rationale for getting a twelve year old in yellow pandies to come out with him. can't think of much more. the monorail bit was poo, the batmobile ruled, and morgan freeman - wow, what an actor. such dignity.

best batman film, probably the best s-hero film (sauf blade I&II), but not really really a great film.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:19 / 04.07.05

Best Alfred bit: when he reclines into his chair on the plane just after Brale says "Good thing I left everything to you!" [in his will]. 'Cos up until then you think Alf is just bringing Brale his plane, but actually it's Alf's plane! So presumably Alf has to approve everything Brale buys - "no, you don't really need any Bat-Shark-Repellent", etc.

11:41 / 04.07.05

I've been thinking about yr microwave emittor complaint, and I think the solution is in the movie.

I'm under the impression that microwaving the water supply at the tower is the end of a process. That being the case, I humbly suggest that nuking the mains at the tower in and of itself isn't enough to cause the system to go into meltdown.

Unfortunately I don't have the film in front of me so I can't check whether I'm just spouting fanwank.

12:44 / 04.07.05

It's in the movie: all the Gotham water mains follow the same route as the monorail. Wayne Station, and Wayne Tower, are the centre of a hub. So if you take the Microwave Emitter MacGuffin to Wayne Towers... it'll be at the centre of the hub, and then ALL the water will be affected.

The stupid giveaway was turning it on before they got to the middle, thereby giving the game away. But they DID need to get it from the Narrows to Wayne Tower.

12:47 / 04.07.05

Also, interesting re: Gumbitch's comment on the pearls; in the script (which I picked up a freebie copy of at work, published by Faber with interviews and big storyboards to account for HIDEOUS PRICE), that sequence ends with a closeup on one of the bloody pearls. And it IS meant to be used in flashback...

there are a few other subtle changes; in the script, the first glimpse of the Scarecrow describes "lizardy tounges" flicking in and out of his mouth and eyes... not sure I could make them out in what Falcone sees; looked more like severe judder and THE MAGGOTS.

God, the maggots. Loved the Scarecrow; thought they pulled it off superbly: genuinely, universally scary. Especially the horse-breathing-fire, and the Batman-demon. Loved the Batman-demon.

13:04 / 04.07.05

Hmm, not really fuel for my fire.

13:05 / 04.07.05

but but - it was wayne enterprises' microwave. the boat they stole it from was on its way to taking the thing to wayne towers.

13:47 / 04.07.05

But they wanted it to start out in the Narrows, didn't they? Where all the 'low-lifes' are? And that's why they let all the mental patients out of the asylum first?

I'm not a comics reader nor particularly nuts about any of the previous Batman flicks, but this is a fantastic movie. Bale was great, and I loved to see some actual depth of character, which seems to be somewhat rare in movies of any genre these days. And it was CREEPY. There was a real, palpable sense of dread in the Scarecrow-Falcone scene and in that moment when "Ras al Ghul" turns around at Bruce's party and he says, "You're not Ras al Ghul" - *shiver*. I already want to see it again.

13:50 / 04.07.05

It's still fucking stellar on the third viewing.

14:43 / 04.07.05

Well done to Nolan for getting great performances out of Oldman and Neeson, who have been terrible in more terrible films than is ever acknowledged.

Not to mention Caine, Hauer and Freeman. Between them there's been more phoned-in performances than the entire Jerky Boys back catalogue, but in this they work for their cash, damnit!
This is my way of saying I loved the film, by the way.I was not looking forward to the much-vaunted 'realism', but I realised that what was there wasn't realism but verisimilitude.
I was amazed by how much interesting content there was, and how, despite being familiar with a lot of the source material, it felt fresh. A big, Raiders style adventure flick, with so many great moments.
"Would you like to see my mask?"

Tryphena Absent

14:59 / 04.07.05

They're trying to get all the police on to the island so no one can stop the whole city being infected, that's why they start at the narrows. They don't know that Batman is innoculated against the gas so they assume that no one will be around to stop them.

19:49 / 04.07.05

but but - it was wayne enterprises' microwave. the boat they stole it from was on its way to taking the thing to wayne towers.

No. It was Wayne Enterprise's microwave, but it was NOT on the way to Gotham. The League of Shadows brought it back, so to speak.

21:08 / 05.07.05

>> Re: whether or not it's clear Ducard was always Ra's: note that all the characters called "Ra's Al Ghul" in the film, Neeson, Watanabe, and the guy at the party, all have the same long, wispy white whiskers coming down from the side of their mouth. It's a pretty clear giveaway, to me; the whiskers are the badge of rank, almost.

Wayne: [something about] disguising your true identity, RA'S.

Ra's: Surely you of all people wouldn't begrudge me a dual identity.

It was Neeson/Ducard as Ra's all along.

Yeah, I also thought the touch of Wayne learning to have some sympathy with low-level criminals who steal just to eat or else starve was interesting...lots of socio-economic talk about poverty as the root of crime throughout the movie.

Also, there *isn't* any discussion of property damage (other than Alf's line "You're lucky no one was killed!" after the Batmobile chase scene), and it strains belief a bit to think that no one is hurt or killed during the Batmobile-drives over 12 roofs and destroys a few freeway dividers scene AND the 'let's shoot down huge pillars of an elevated train' scenes.

00:13 / 06.07.05

Is it just me, or was the word "fear" uttered half a trillion times in this movie?

My friends and I, after seeing this movie, talk to each other like the movie all the time.

ME: You need to learn to fear what fear fears to finally fear the fear.
FRIEND: I fear learning the fear, though.
ME: Become the fear.
FRIEND: That, I hear.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:35 / 06.07.05

Liked a lot. Bit confused by the 'Batman leaving Neeson to die' ending, I'd rather assumed someone would sweep in to do the actual dispatching of Ra's because Batman couldn't do it. And nice to see 'fat unshaven motel owner' from 'Memento' making a comeback. Is he in all Nolan's films? I thought Scarecrow was disappointing too, in a very busy film he didn't get much of a chance to be an effective baddy. He was more of a plot enabler.

And again with the absent parents metaphor, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Sopranos s.1, the Enterprise pilot, all these stories around us at the moment with the orphans.

And there was absolutely no fetishising of the violence either. It was well up in the sound mix so it was clear that Nolan wanted to remind us that every time one human hits another it will hurt. And the death count was actually pretty low, just the Waynes, assorted ninjas, that was about it.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:30 / 09.07.05

Really enjoyed that (although an exploding train wasn't possibly the best thing to see yesterday!)
Bale was fantastic- yes, very Patrick Bateman indeed.
Morgan Freeman fucking ruled.
Michael Caine... hmm. I'm sure he used to just sound like Michael Caine. When did he start sounding like someone taking the piss out of Michael Caine? The could've got Dick Van Dyke. "On the rooftops of Gotham... cor, wot a sight".

Scarecrow, fucking hell- excellent.

And I really liked the firebreathing horse.

That was brilliant- I loved all the moral greyness- and, get this, I ACTUALLY REALLY CARED when Bruce's parents were killed, when the response I was expecting before I went in would have been wishing they'd hurry up and get to it.

10:45 / 09.07.05

The whole orphanage as a recurant theme, although it's a long standing tradition in the hero's journey, and well established with Batman, it's meaning takes on various roles for different generations - our generation, it seems, is all about the need to find identity and place (we have more time and freedom to ponder the inner questions, and confront the inner monsters) so serves as the metaphor for the loss of sense of belonging. Maybe.

16:14 / 11.07.05

Re Ras dying at the end, the novelisation of the screenplay, by Dennis O’Neil, suggests that he may not have died. Then again the book is pretty explicit about Ras having a long lifespan, and a daughter, and various other things which the film doesn’t feature.
To some extent, I guess having Ras still lurking around might be seen as taking the edge off the prospect of the Joker as the ‘next villain’.

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