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2-4-6-8, It's the Shift where we're up Late...

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Goodness Gracious Meme

22:59 / 10.03.03

sounds interesting, Kat, chuck a headshop thread up about it...?

You get perhaps an analagous situation with the YBAs and the whole East London thing, growing out of artists being given massive subsidies/cheap rents&mortgages/huge warehouse spaces in the 80s to settle in 'run-down' East London in a GLC attempt to 'redevelop' the area.

The way physical and social networks influence these things is fascinating, have a good article somewhere on the importance of gossip as social/geographical lubrican/information medium...

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:02 / 10.03.03

I debuted my enormous Chatterton hair to my boss today, with nary a rumble of dissent. I like being in a job where looking slightly odd is actually a benefit.

And very tired, and struggling with the concept of goth, but basically well. How are all?

23:07 / 10.03.03

Temping for the government doesn't afford much leeway. I'm thinking of either a shade of bubblegum pink or a red-orange. At the moment I have a shaggy little pixy haircut, so any mistakes will grow out relatively fast. I did once pull of a shade called "Enchanted Forest", a very pretty blueish tealish jade, which brought out the blue in my eyes (unfortunately, it also brought out the dark circles under them as well as the blue in my veins.)

Haus- what aspect of the concept is causing the strugle?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:12 / 10.03.03

Maz - gorblimey. Have a look at recent posts to venusberg. I am trying to reconcile my fundamental love of all subcultures with my atavistic loathing of people who represent themselves as better than others on the strength of having either middle-class parents or no tracksuits.

23:15 / 10.03.03

Bar my fucking computer, am alright. But tired. Essay is 2400 words and there's another 1000 to go. And I have more work to do after that. And am very tired. But tomorrow night is off, and could be fun, and everything is done with by Friday lunch time.

And then after the weekend, we start the dissertation work...

23:15 / 10.03.03

struggling with a goth haus? Always the best way, especially if they have those silver claw things you can buy in camden.

But I read your blog entry. dude. I feel I should be limp wristed and aggressive, but I'm not sure the mechanics of that will work too well.

What about the rest of you? Who am I gonna see in a few weeks?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:19 / 10.03.03

Dude, aggressive limp wristiness is the way of the future. Think I'm just rocking on my heels slightly from tales of Whitby evil and unthinking racism. It's the expecting better thing....I am currently scheduled to be in Paris on the weekend of the 29th, arsingly, but if that falls through I will of course be kicking it Lurid stlye.

Goodness Gracious Meme

23:19 / 10.03.03

'Enchanted Forest' sounds l-o-o-ovely. Mmm. (and I'm brown-skinned, so figure I won't have the veins issue

)

I like the sound of bubblegum pink, myself.

Haus: wow. Is yr hair *hooge*? Does it defy gravity? Are small animals lost in it?

re goths: it's a tricky one. I'd probably start by figuring out why I loved subcultures so much. Is it all subcultures? Do you have similar fondness for punk kids? the old raver thing?

And then work from there.

Goodness Gracious Meme

23:23 / 10.03.03

tales of Whitby evil and unthinking racism

Interested now, and curious...?

There's a great cult.studs/soc/anthro book called Goth by I think, Jeremy soemteing-or-other, which I'm sure you know about, but is definitely worth reading, whichever side of the goth divide you stand.

And Lurid, barring major accidents, should be there. Looking forward to seeing Your Dudeness, sire.

Brigade du jour

23:27 / 10.03.03

Fuck, I wish I had a computer at home, then I wouldn't have to do all this Barbestuff at work and then I wouldn't be all paranoid about people thinking I'm JUST BUNKING OFF. But of course, I am bunking off. Fuck!

23:29 / 10.03.03

Why I own no track suits... my parents are middle class... and criminy, I'm even an Aquarius Pisces cusp, just like young Randy! I must qualify. Good for me. I had a brief stint with gothdom when I was fifteen or so, but by and large such things are best left in one's sophomore year of high school. My even briefer stint in New Orleans cemented for me the fact that I just don't get it. Especially when a friend brought me to a goth club, and they started playing "Safety Dance" and no one was doing the fucking Safety Dance.

So I'm in no position to explain goths to you. Near as I can tell, the look seems to be pretty damned key. And if you know the goth in question well, then chances are you've seen them when their look wasn't quite together. I can't take the goth-ness of most of my goth friends seriously because when I see them, I think: I've seen you making that weird face when you floss. You are not the unholy lord of the night. You're that guy who makes that face when you floss.

The Return Of Rothkoid

23:30 / 10.03.03

Well. I'm at work. Looking around the new filtering software. Eep. No good.

I'm listening to Aulis Sallinen and wondering whether it's going to rain when I go for lunch. To which the answer will probably be yes.

Sigh.

23:31 / 10.03.03

The goth rascist thing is disturbing. I've met a few fascists on the scene and it is pretty white. hmmm. I have a goth fetish and I can't stand lots of goths. "Lots" is perhaps an exaggeration.

In the end, its a bit of a cliche, but people are people no matter what their clothes. I'm no cynic, but you have to see whats in front of you.

BiP: It'll be great to seeya. Been a while. Haven't read "Goth", but it was actually written by a goth, wasn't it?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:34 / 10.03.03

BiP: Oh, it's the ever-popular "pikeys" thing, among others. Problem being that the urge to bait becomes overpowering. I hate hate hate this idea that one belongs to *any* subculture because you are better than other people. You belong to a subculture because you like it, becuase you like the literature or the music or the look or the annual rutting, and that is all perfectly well. The moment you decide that you are somehow better than the herd, the povvos, the mundanes or the pikeys you start drawing a very familiar set of lines. Possibly I just expect people who feel generally alienated to show a bit more awareness of social victimisation. It's not a condemnation of a group or an aesthetic, just a slightly awkward catch of the kind that happens when Barbelith, exempli gratia, starts talking about the stupid common people. Because once you start looking at the world in those terms you set up a pecking order where you are inevitably the weak link to somebody.

Usually me, realistically.

And my hair is ginormous, by my standards - back to student size. If I wet and gel it it looks rather dashing, otherwise it just looks enormous. Maybe I should go back to painting my skin dark blue as well....

23:36 / 10.03.03

BiP, I'm pasty to the point of translucence/reflectiveness, so E.F. was pretty, but just a little too cold. However, it might look damn fine on someone with a warmer skin tone. Have a look see: Swatches

Enchanted Forest is twelve down on the left.

23:42 / 10.03.03

I hear that, Haus. Always annoys me, but it is a fairly natural human trait to derive status from exclusivity. Mind you, it has been more frequent on barbelith recently. But then, there are enough people who oppose that sort of thinking, that I can't help feeling that something positive comes of it all.

Rothky: Don't complain about rain, dude. I'm in Ireland.

23:45 / 10.03.03

I'm pasty to the point of translucence/reflectiveness

I've tried to get pasty, avoiding sunlight, becoming nocturnal and all, but something in my genes stands in the way. And now I'm moving to Barcelona.

Tryphena Absent

23:46 / 10.03.03

Ooh, vampire red, now that would sit well on my head!

I'm having a panic, fanfiction.net isn't working and I'm halfway through some golden snitch blah blah fic.

So, people, any opera fans here? You know that aria - the one that's used for every weepy or reflective scene on TV/film ever. Terribly romantic, melodramatic and all, well I made the mistake of watching Smallville and they played it at the end of an episode. Do you know the piece I'm talking about because I really don't and it's beginning to piss me off.

Goodness Gracious Meme

23:48 / 10.03.03

yeah, by a goth/sociology academic. He places alot of emphasis on his 'insider analysis', if I remember correctly (been a while since I read it). Like, Maz, aside from a brief teenage dalliance (I was a shite goth, given that my hair's already black and my attempts at make-up were pitiful.

) I hardly know anything about Goth, (actually picked it up as it was recommended to me as a useful attempt at subcultural analysis, as context for some stuff I was thinking about)

Here's a review.

Possibly I just expect people who feel generally alienated to show a bit more awareness of social victimisation.

Ha. I'm very surprised to be saying this to you of all people(!), but that's a very naive viewpoint. People who are vicitimised are just as likely to be scared and patrol their borders all the more forcefully. A 'scene' doesn't guarantee the emotional development neccessary to move beyond that. And can often actively retard it by surrounding one with similar people/reducing the chances of challenge.

What's the racism stuff about?

I like the descr. of the hair, btw. sounds spectacular...

23:49 / 10.03.03

Lurid- It's a familial trait. We've got about a tablespoon of melanin between us, and it's all in our hair. I've seen pictures of myself with a tan, when I was like eight, but everytime I've tried it in the past ten years, it's just led to peeling and pain.

Anna- is it a duet of women?

Goodness Gracious Meme

23:54 / 10.03.03

wow. so many purdy colours. Purple Haze. mmm.

and I *love* the idea of red hair that glows under blacklight.

23:57 / 10.03.03

I wonder how they do that.

Tryphena Absent

23:59 / 10.03.03

no, just one soprano, might be from Madam Butterfly but I'm not sure.

Yeah the blacklight madness appealed to me as well!

00:00 / 11.03.03

I was a shite goth, given that my hair's already black and my attempts at make-up were pitiful.

I'd love you as a goth. And not just you, but everyone. (Does that devalue my point?)

People who are vicitimised are just as likely to be scared and patrol their borders all the more forcefully. A 'scene' doesn't guarantee the emotional development neccessary to move beyond that - BiP

Thats a really excellent point. Frameable. But it is depressing nonetheless.

Anna: Vampire red. Yum.

Goodness Gracious Meme

00:01 / 11.03.03

I'd love you as a goth. And not just you, but everyone. (Does that devalue my point?)

Yes.

Tryphena Absent

00:05 / 11.03.03

Oh BiP do the goth thang for all of us... go on! You can make your hair all twizzly!

00:07 / 11.03.03

So would one be more or less goth if one had hair which glowed under blacklight?

While I'm tossing up links, Suffering is Hip has some pretty amusing stuff on it here and there. I can't tell if it's actually by goths or by people pretending to be goths, but their Classics Digest Version of Titus Andronicus has made me giggle many times.

00:08 / 11.03.03

Lets compromise. Bip can go goth and Anna can go vampire red and goth (which isn't really a stretch, to be fair). Then everyone is happy.

Goodness Gracious Meme

00:09 / 11.03.03

qu'est-ce que 'twizzly'? And I don't think there's a way I could 'go goth' these days without running the risk of Mordant and Lurid thinking I was taking the piss.

And then they'd curse me. or something.

The Return Of Rothkoid

00:10 / 11.03.03

In my mailroom days, I used bubblewrap to get the Biggest Hair Ever. It's simple: make like you're drying your hair with bubblewrap. The static electricity makes it HUGE. Then, industrial-strength hairspray.

voila!

Rain complain? I'll see your Ireland and raise it: I've lived in New Zealand. It rained non-stop for six weeks - literally - after we got off the plane.

I go OK with eye makeup, but the weather over here isn't conducive to gothy goodness. Tans and the Eldritch Ones don't mix.

Tryphena Absent

00:14 / 11.03.03

Oh no, we could make you up in goth glory and what a fine site you'd be!

Twizzly though is faaarr too difficult to explain and I can't find a picture so another day.

Vampire Red... too spectacularly perfect to be a stretch but I gave all my black clothes away and everything I own now is far too colourful for me to even approach goth and plus my hair's just not right and let's not even go in to the pain of trying to find good gothic footwear. But vampire red is under consideration.

Goodness Gracious Meme

00:15 / 11.03.03

*g*

as Lurid's about to find out.

Lets compromise. Bip can go goth and Anna can go vampire red and goth (which isn't really a stretch, to be fair). Then everyone is happy.

erm, or rather, then *Lurid* is happy, and BiP melts into the walls in dark pub.

00:16 / 11.03.03

And I don't think there's a way I could 'go goth' these days without running the risk of Mordant and Lurid thinking I was taking the piss.

No! The whole point is that once you have the spider makeup, the fishnets and the dangles you aren't in a position to take the piss out of anyone ever again.

I go OK with eye makeup, but the weather over here isn't conducive to gothy goodness. Tans and the Eldritch Ones don't mix.

You are trying to make me feel bad, aren't you?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:19 / 11.03.03

I've also got a goth fetish... although having just had to suffer my mum showing my flatmate photos of me back in the day... Christ, I looked a tosser. I may have to rethink my entire premise.

I think the goth/racist thing has a lot to do with Death In June et al... although the first black goth I ever saw was at a DIJ gig many years ago.

The Return Of Rothkoid

00:20 / 11.03.03

Nah, not at all. You just haven't had The Australian Tan. Tumours usually result. Look forward to my "when I got my skin cancers cut off" post sometime in the next couple of years. It just doesn't work for me in this environment... it's too fuckign bright here. Unless I stay ensconced in Chez Smooth, which is a distinct possibility.

I am, however, listening to Black Lung at the moment, so I'm goth all over. Except for the t-shirt that says "White Trash".

Bah.

I want to go home.

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