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Underground > Radio & Music >

Kill A Sacred Cow Here!

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foolish fat finger

17:42 / 17.04.06

I think it's time someone stuck the boot into that Ludwig Van Beethoven. I mean granted, the lad's got some talent, but it's his attitude that I can't stand. All the hangin round with supermodels, snorting coke, and dressing like Laurence Llewellyn-Bowen, even tho he's clearly not got the frame for it.

Half the time he doesn't even bother to turn up for his gigs anymore, just sends in a backing band to play his stuff for him. If he does bother to show, he wastes half the evening jumping around, trying to start a Mexican wave, and then setting his instrument on fire. I mean honestly, you're lucky if you get one 'Da-Da-Da Duuuum' out of him these days before he's gettin busy with the Bryant & May.

And to cap it all, suddenly he claims to be deaf. like 'oh I'm so great, I don't even need to be able to hear to write music...' well, as far as I'm concerned, that's just attention-seeking. he's just showing off.

Baobab Branches and Plastic

12:24 / 18.04.06

Okay...

NEW ORDER/JOY DIVISION

In my opinion are just boring... the neither men can sing, neither band can play, and to me they both make morbidly turgid shite music. I know some people are really rabid about both bands... but sorry its a sacred cow that I have to tip.

12:29 / 18.04.06

Is being able to sing and play the mark of a good band (I assume you're talking about technical proficiency here)? The Happy Mondays couldn't do either well, and I love some of their output - the same could be said of a slew of punk bands and electronic acts.

13:10 / 18.04.06

Okay...

NEW ORDER/JOY DIVISION

In my opinion are just boring... the neither men can sing, neither band can play, and to me they both make morbidly turgid shite music. I know some people are really rabid about both bands... but sorry its a sacred cow that I have to tip.

Joy Divsion were so tight live whatchootakinabout, how is blue monday turgid?

To be honest i didnt like Joy Division too much when I first heard them, persevere and a new world of morbid dancability opens up!

m

16:22 / 18.04.06

Here, let's have some real sacred cows shall we:

Sonic Youth. Kill YR Idols, indeed! They've sounded like a cheap imitation of themselves for about a decade now, and the new guitar player doesn't help at all.

Nick Cave. Please, please take him seriously, please! The records just get slicker and more dull, and old Nick just gets further entrenched in his po-faced Southern Gothic schtick. Hey, Nick, could you write us another song about a guy named Joe (or Jack or Henry or some other manly man's name) that lives in a shack in Mississippi, drinks whiskey, reads the bible, and agonizes about killing his wife. Thanks, we need more of that. Oh, and the gospel choir ain't foolin' nobody.

Tom Waits. String these words together and make your own Tom Waits song: Monkey, Devil, Whiskey, Skull, Buick, Shotgun, Bible, Farmhouse, Swamp, Bible, Blah, Blah, Blah. Really, just take your favorite Nick Cave song and sing it like Cookie Monster to a polka beat. Then do it as slow sappy ballad and then as a poem read over ambient noises, and VOILA!, you've got the new Tom Waits record! Don't worry, nobody will notice that it's practically the same album that you put out last year. Hell, go ahead and churn out a couple at a time! Folks will lap them up like missives from God.

foolish fat finger

22:18 / 18.04.06

ha ha! I think u have clearly listened to lot of Tom Waits, to know what yr talkin about. I still like him, even tho in the last few years he seems to have swapped tunes for recitin the Old Testament while bangin 2 planks together...

it's interestin to hear people sackin artists that have meant a lot to me. It's like Morrissey, I was a big fan for years, but there comes a point when u realise he's a just a moaning middle-aged millionaire with a persecution complex. but I still sing along when he comes on the radio. such a silly boy...

03:03 / 19.04.06

Nick Cave. The records just get slicker and more dull. Hey, Nick, could you write us another song about a guy named Joe (or Jack or Henry or some other manly man's name) that lives in a shack in Mississippi, drinks whiskey, reads the bible, and agonizes about killing his wife. Thanks, we need more of that.

Oy! That's a bit harsh... but I've loved his last few albums. The last one (Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus) had some great rocking songs. (Nature Boy or There She Goes) He hasn't written any 'Henry Southern Gothic' stuff in the last 5 years if I remember right...(I may be wrong about that though.)

Just listen to 'Rock of Gibraltar' or the 14-minute epic 'Babe I'm on Fire' from Nocturama... classic they are.

15:38 / 19.04.06

Um, may I rest on bended knee and apologise for my slagging the Velvets on this here thread. Once more, Barbelith has lead me to better things and had me digging out their records. halfway through "What goes on" and I was weeping (not for the beauty, but for having spread such muck across the interweb)

Still can't stand Lou though..

Haus of Mystery

15:56 / 19.04.06

Silly boy. You're meant to hate Lou Reed. He needs it to stay alive.

18:47 / 19.04.06

dry your eyes mate.

see, he can be alright, but i fear the likely cocaine and possible easy-sleazy limo privileges are shrinking his capacity for awesome.
the new stuff must take some getting used to, because at the moment it sounds cack.

20:30 / 19.04.06

There was a short interview with him in the paper on the weekend where he said:

Anyone who says I'm a poet doesn't know what poetry is. You might not understand poetry on first reading. You might have to look up some words. With songwriting I've got three minutes to be crystal clear to an audience who are only half listening or may be off their nut on drugs.

Which is fair enough, I suppose. I find his music pretty annoying too, but it does stick in your head, right enough. I've been singing it in my head ever since he came up in this thread.

Haus of Mystery

20:46 / 19.04.06

I actually think Skinner seems like a decent sort. It's just the music that grates.

20:56 / 19.04.06

I hear Radiohead has a new album coming out. I wonder if it will be listenable.

Probably not. They wouldn't know melody if it propositioned them in a dingy American bar.

20:58 / 19.04.06

With songwriting I've got three minutes to be crystal clear to an audience who are only half listening or may be off their nut on drugs.

Well if you're going give your audience the slightest consideration you're on a pretty rocky road already...

m: Might have a more considered response later on, but I saw a Nick Cave solo gig here a couple of months ago and he blew the roof off the place! His last two albums haven't been consistently amazing, but he put on a cracking show, and his Southern preacher-man-on-crack persona felt anything but po-faced, and for a four-piece they made a hell of a racket.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:53 / 19.04.06

Baz- totally with you on the Cave-loving, but Rock of Gibraltar? Seriously? It's the only Bad Seeds song I've ever heard that I didn't like. And by "didn't like", I mean "really really really thought was very very poo indeed".

23:15 / 19.04.06

Sonic Youth. Kill YR Idols, indeed! They've sounded like a cheap imitation of themselves for about a decade now, and the new guitar player doesn't help at all.

Yeah, this's the one sprang to mind for me. Look, fuck, 'Daydream Nation' and, uh, 'Sister' was it? They were fucking great; so good that ...And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead made a career of really good emulations of said. Everything since? Really, actually bad. Go away, Sonic Pensioners.

05:37 / 20.04.06

Baz- totally with you on the Cave-loving, but Rock of Gibraltar? Seriously? It's the only Bad Seeds song I've ever heard that I didn't like. And by "didn't like", I mean "really really really thought was very very poo indeed".

...but I always thought it was intentionally bad! With lines rhyming "Rock of Gibraltar" with "I took you on a trip to Malta"? Hilarious!

Ok, maybe he was being sincere and it is a poo song, but it always makes me laugh...

Tom Paine's Bones

23:59 / 20.04.06

Steve Vai- I don't care what it fucking says in Guitar Muso Monthly. Technical competance and making songs worth listening to are not the same thing.

Jimi Hendrix- Similar reasons. Possibly I just dislike guitar solos.

The Sex Pistols- Anarchy in the UK has not aged well as an album. It's dull and they just seem laughable now. The Clash were better. The Buzzcocks were far better. Hell, I find Sham 69 more listenable.

07:16 / 21.04.06

Your argument might carry more weight if you even knew the name of the Sex Pistols album ...

All the publicity/drama/Lydon/McLaren nonsense aside, I think the songs on Never Mind the Bollocks are still cracking tunes.

11:40 / 21.04.06

As do I

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:59 / 21.04.06

Thirded. Cos I'm punk as fuck.

13:53 / 21.04.06

I'm funk as a puck.

All Acting Regiment

15:01 / 21.04.06

NEW ORDER/JOY DIVISION

In my opinion are just boring... the neither men can sing, neither band can play, and to me they both make morbidly turgid shite music. I know some people are really rabid about both bands... but sorry its a sacred cow that I have to tip.

Or, Ian Curtis couldn't sing nicely but did have some good words, sometimes. The keyboard bit on LWTUA helps. Barny of New Order can sing nicely but his words come out of a rhyming dictionary. They've got some good things between them, but are jsut raved about an awful lot, esp. by americans.

Tom Paine's Bones

16:18 / 21.04.06

Your argument might carry more weight if you even knew the name of the Sex Pistols album ...

Oops. In vague defense, it was silly 0'clock in the morning when I posted that.

All the publicity/drama/Lydon/McLaren nonsense aside, I think the songs on Never Mind the Bollocks are still cracking tunes.

Why though? How are they better ('cos they're treated as canon) then pretty much everything else that punk produced at the same time? They are better then Eater. I'll give you that.

18:49 / 21.04.06

I don't usually compare them to other bands, partly because I don't really think of their style of music as punk, as far as punk can be used to describe a style of music rather than a social movement, ethos, etc. Obviously there are different types of punk, but when you compare it to stuff like the Dead Kennedys or 7 Seconds then the Sex Pistols is just rock and roll, and quite simply the guitar riffs and vocals, not to mention the lyrics, are extremely catchy. Submission, Pretty Vacant, all really catchy toe-tapping stuff.

I know that, like other bands in this thread, they have been so over-hyped that it's hard not to be critical, but unlike bands who released lots of shit as well as a few gems, the pistols released (not counting all the extra bits and bobs that came out later) one perfect rock album. Every song a winner, no filler, thudding drums, crunching guitar riffs, confident singer spitting and snarling his way through some classic lyrics. Doesn't get much better.

20:17 / 21.04.06

Why though? How are they better ('cos they're treated as canon)

Er, no. Don't be so bloody silly.

How are they better? They're better 'cause I prefer their tunes, and that's all that's necessary. If anyone's getting caught up in their reputation and media image I'd suggest it's you, after all, you're the one who keeps mentioning it.

Tom Paine's Bones

01:16 / 22.04.06

I had a "huh" moment there, but I think I've worked out where there may be a miscommunication. That shouldn't be read as "you think they're better because they're treated as canon". I meant "why are they considered generally better? They seem to be considered canon in a way many other bands aren't."

Although I do think that media image and reputation is a valid issue when discussing "sacred cows", that doesn't mean I was saying that was why you like The Sex Pistols.

09:47 / 22.04.06

To be honest, I think The Clash, who you say you think are better, are much more of a sacred cow; they have that claim of "authenticity" that has music critics lining up to shake their hands, while the Sex Pistols are often criticised for being a manufactured pop band. Which is true, but in my opinion, they're a rather good one.

While The Clash are a sacred cow I'd much raher... well, if not kill, at least wound a bit. Listening to London Calling makes me realise that the songs I like most are the ones everybody already knows, while a lot of the rest sounds like macho posturing which just turns me off.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:17 / 22.04.06

see, he can be alright, but i fear the likely cocaine and possible easy-sleazy limo privileges are shrinking his capacity for awesome.
the new stuff must take some getting used to, because at the moment it sounds cack.

I Torrented it, out of a sense of charity. If all that money's just causing him grief, I don't know how I could live with myself if I exacerbated his problems. There're a couple of fun tunes on there, but my God when he's bad he's shite.
(And "Dry Your Eyes" can't possibly have been the worst song of any period in which "Fit But You Know It" was released, surely?)

23:04 / 23.04.06

ha ha! I think u have clearly listened to lot of Tom Waits, to know what yr talkin about.

But then again, m, and given that your comments describe a style that makes up a tiny fraction of Waits' output, u obviously haven't.

I hate this thread with a burning passion.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

23:51 / 23.04.06

Steve Vai- I don't care what it fucking says in Guitar Muso Monthly. Technical competance and making songs worth listening to are not the same thing.

Jimi Hendrix- Similar reasons.

Out of curiousity, do you actually play guitar? Or listen to much Hendrix?

07:13 / 24.04.06

*the Sex Pistols are often criticised for being a manufactured pop band. Which is true, but in my opinion, they're a rather good one*

well, it depends on who you believe, mclaren certainly put it about that they were manufactured, as it served his svengali posturing, but lydon has always been clear that it was him and the boys in the band, and that mclaren just managed them a bit. middle class writers prefer the mclaren story i suppose as the pistols were very much a working class band and it is easier to believe they didn't have the brains for it.

as for authenticity, the clash certainly appeared more authentic but there is a good argument that it was middle class rebel poses as opposed to the pistols genuine outsider status.

Tom Paine's Bones

21:58 / 24.04.06

b>Out of curiousity, do you actually play guitar? Or listen to much Hendrix?

I don't play guitar. (I play drums, but I'm not very good). I have heard a reasonably sizeable amount of Hendrix off other people over the years, though only the album I own is Electric Ladyland. I certainly don't argue with the idea that Hendrix is an excellent guitarist however. It's his songs as whole pieces that I'm not so keen on. I'm not however convinced that whether or not I play guitar is that relevant to whether I like Hendrix or not. Anymore then I think you need to be a filmmaker in order to talk about films.

On the question of The Sex Pistols, I don't actually think it matters whether they were manufactured or not. Unless you have a band entirely made up of friends; lots of bands are manufactured through small ads in the music press etc. And I don't think that 'authenticity' has any bearing on the quality of a band's material in the first place.

03:09 / 25.04.06

I hate this thread with a burning passion.

Why? Because people are expressing opinions that may or may not be reasoned and educated? Or is it because your holy bovines are getting slaughtered?

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

04:55 / 25.04.06

I'm not however convinced that whether or not I play guitar is that relevant to whether I like Hendrix or not.

It totally isn't; I was just curious that you describe Hendrix's music in terms of "technical competance". I don't really think it's something he's particularly famous for. The term "technical competance", to me, suggests a formal education, a style that is dry or lacking in soul, emotion, feeling, moxie, funkiness, or whatever. I mean, he was a blues guy, right?...bluesy rock and rocking funky blues and psychadelic acid blues rock and shit like that.

Can I ask what "technical competance" means to you? I have no problems with Hendrix's sacred cow-ness being killed, but it's a weird charge to bring against him. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.

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