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Kill A Sacred Cow Here!

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09:39 / 07.04.06

Totally agreed with Illmatic re: Bob Marley, except I'll raise ya one and say that I think most of his tunes essentially ARE quite terrible.

There's the occasional good one ('Trenchtown Rock'), but god, all those fucking 'anthemic' hits strike me as utterly vapid, like he's sat down and had a listen to 'Hey Jude' and 'Let it Be' and decided, right then, all I gotta do is come up with a few vague, easily digestible, feel-good sentiments, nail 'em to the most conventional, inoffensive half a tune I can come up with, sing the fucking thing AGAIN AND AGAIN, and the white boys'll be eating outta my hand. Mission accomplished I suppose.

It annoys me how so many people consider him the great, untouchable hero of reggae, just because he played ball with the American record companies and allowed himself to be groomed as a pre-packaged star.. and then had the good fortune to die before everybody got fed up of his bloated pomposity.

Some of his songs might have been overtly political in a slightly grating worthy-world-music kinda manner, but they've got nothing of the dirt and defiance and party spirit that goes with good reggae... I also had the misfortune recently of hearing a late-period Marley live album, and, man, the musicianship was just DIRE ; tedious, plodding '70s studio hack crap that has absolutely nothing in common with anything I like about reggae, or rock for that matter.

Sorry, bit of a rant there, but that's what this thread's all about, right?

18:03 / 07.04.06

Bob Marley's music inspired me to grow real deadlocks in the Nineties (up until then, I'd just been wearing one of those hats,) and the Aphex Twin's music inspired me to buy a didgeridoo. And if it hadn't been for either of them, I'd never have gone to India, which was a genuinely life-changing experience, one which I wouldn't expect any of you to understand - In that two week period, I learned more about life (that's Life with a capital 'L') than the so-called education system, with all it's hang-ups and bring-downs, had ever taught me. I learned to be and to not get so caught up in this doing thing all the time, and it's a lesson I've carried through to this day.

I mean next you'll be having a go at The Shamen, or God help your blackened, cynical hearts, Ozric Tentacles.

Basically I and I am thinking that some you guys should just mellow out with a chillum, and some collie weed.

Hate for Robert Nestor Marley = love for Babylon.

Peace out, brethren.

One love.

18:06 / 07.04.06

Bob Marley and The Wailers were arguably reggae's U2, but what's so wrong with that? Didn't somebody have to be?

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

18:12 / 07.04.06

What's so wrong with being refered to in the same sentence as U2 hey...hhmmm...let me get my list. Ah here it is, but it'll take me ages to go through so i'd say probably everyhting in the universe is wrong with that.

Nobody deserves to be put in the same league as that bunch of
ridiculous twattage. Bono is a prize c*** of mammoth proportions and inspires the sort of internal jihad in me that would shame any mass psycho.

If anyone here can actually think of a reason why they should be allowed to exist, please throw yourself in the nearest lavvy and flush yourself.

Many Thanks.

Haus of Mystery

19:08 / 07.04.06

00:21 / 08.04.06

Well OK, he is sort of awful, Bonio, but it's a bit like complaining when it rains.

03:30 / 08.04.06

Somewhere on Barbelith (perhaps this thread) I composed a heated post in which I said that Bono is the biggest fucking dick on the planet. At work one day:
Matt: Bono is the biggest fucking wanker on the planet.
Jon: Yeah, he's so annoying with his trying to save the world and ending third-world debt. That bastard.
Matt: Uh, what? No, I mean his sun...glasses. [this is the part where I realize I'm an asshole]
Jon: Yeah, trying to save people's lives. What a bastard!

So that's when I realized to keep my trap shut about Bono. Even though he's an asshole, at least he's using his celebrity status to affect some positive change in the world.

(Their music is still tripe after the mid-nineties)

08:34 / 08.04.06

Illmatic re: Bob Marley, except I'll raise ya one and say that I think most of his tunes essentially ARE quite terrible

Actually, Riz, I had a look at the track listing of "Legend" after I wrote that post, and I completely agree with you. I just had some reservations about slagging his stuff off totally as I've heard some wicked early Wailers tracks.

Legend though: fucking dreck.

Macready: you've never felt rage till you've heard a 15 yr old kid from Kent saying 'Jah, ras tafari' at you.

Oh yes. Seems to be a common cultural meme.

Haus of Mystery

15:28 / 08.04.06

So that's when I realized to keep my trap shut about Bono. Even though he's an asshole, at least he's using his celebrity status to affect some positive change in the world

He's a collossal ego-maniacal prick as well.

foolish fat finger

21:06 / 08.04.06

ha ha ha ha!

who do I think is overated? a few Noo Yorkers- Patti Smith, the Ramones... I'm not really bothered by it tho. also, I think Bowie should be barred from the airwaves since he floated his back-catalogue on the stock market. I just can't take anything he has done seriously now, knowing that say 'scary monsters' is showing an upturn on the Dow Jones index... yeah, I used to love Bowie, but he's f***ed it for me...

anyone with a knighthood can f off as well. yr either rock n roll or u ain't. if u got a knighthood, u ain't, and that applies retroactively.

23:38 / 08.04.06

Anyone with a knighthood? What about an OBE? Like David Gilmour for example. I think Gilmour's been doing pretty good. Hasn't done anything (save for an acoustic DVD) for over a decade until this year, and the CD's decent, but not classic. He keeps quiet a lot and doesn't wear the same stupid pair of fucking sunglasses all the time. BONO, YOU'RE INDOORS, TAKE THEM OFF. You're not Cassiday from Preacher.

And you know who else? The Edge. If he doesn't stop wearing that stupid fucking skull cap or yarmulke or whatever, I'm going to rip it off and take some scalp with it.

foolish fat finger

22:03 / 09.04.06

Dave Gilmour donated his £1M house to a homeless charity, and so I won't say a word against him. his music doesn't quite do it for me- I'm more of a Syd Barratt era Floyd fan- but he's a jolly nice chap in his interviews, and he has a good heart... fair play to the man. respect.

23:07 / 11.04.06

The Streets. Don’t know if the amount of love/hate type of commentary makes Mike Skinner a sacred cow or not, but I am tired of any negative criticism being dismissed as classist or “just not getting it”, and with a new album apparently on the way promising the trials and tribulations of celebrity life - urgh - it’s time to stick it to this absurdly visible icon of the streets. How about finding his tunelessness neither distinctive or provocative? How about not situating his supposed celebration of working class values as more genuine or authentic than his contemporaries, or, even if that were the case, that being held as an excuse for his crude, mawkish, unfunny lyrics and sentiments, his lack of musical talent, and the suggestion that his brand of sophisticated primitivism is anything but the same old worthless, banal idiocy pretending to be clever?

The Natural Way

14:28 / 12.04.06

Matt, I think it's unfair that no-one's taken u up on the Bowie thing. I'm always unsure what Bowie dislike actually means. So, you dislike all the albums from Lodger to Kooks, all the tunes from Young Americans, to Ashes to Ashes, to Station to Station? Bowie's output is far, far too broad to make sweeping generalisations about and, just as boboss suggested re Velvet's hate, I'd recommend you go download/buy a few albums and give them a real listen before making up yr mind - p'raps Kooks, Low, Scary Monsters and Ziggy Stardust. Whatever you say, I'm fairly sure you need to dig a little deeper (or at all) before you dismiss such a huge body of work. I bet you'll love loads of it.

Haus of Mystery

14:46 / 12.04.06

You mean 'Hunky Dory', not 'Kooks' punce.

15:00 / 12.04.06

Before anyone writes off Marley completely on the basis of one late period record, have a listen to his earlier recordings. The "Trenchtown Rock: 1969-1978" compilation has some stunning songs on it. I always thought I hated Marley until I listened to this a couple of times. Mostly produced by Lee Perry, it just has some fantastic songs on it. Dismissing the man's entire output on the strength of the awful "Legend" is really just as ignorant as the 15-year old "rastas" who think that horrifically over produced record is the entire breadth and depth of Jamaican music.

Amazon link.

15:18 / 12.04.06

Doctorbeck: I'm with you on the Lee Perry as solo artist rather than producer cringing.

17:14 / 12.04.06

Bowie albums formerly owned (because I sold them):
-Ziggy Stardust
-Aladdin Sane
-Space Oddity
-the soundtrack for the film Ziggy Stardust (essentially a live album)
and
-Heroes.
-the latest three albums (Heathen, 'hours' and Reality) were downloaded (and subesquently deleted)

All of which I failed to form a connection with. I found most of it to be cold and unappealing. I thought the albums' artwork was the best part of all of them.

I'm not making sweeping generalizations. I really tried to like Bowie. Really. I like some of his songs, from Young Americans to Space Oddity to Let's Dance to Fame, but everything else just bores me.

18:21 / 12.04.06

The man has indeed tried.

The Natural Way

18:55 / 12.04.06

Indeed.

But I'm not giving up:

Matt, you should've kept those albums.

The Natural Way

18:56 / 12.04.06

Buy them again.

19:07 / 12.04.06

What is the essential (non-compilation) Bowie album that I should download and try again?

19:57 / 12.04.06

Can we just go back to Blakehead's point re. Mike Skinner? Not because he's a sacred cow, but simply because any oppotunity to slag off the leery twart should be seized with both hands...

I think young Mr. Skinner is the perfect example of an almost completely rubbish recording artist, whose minimal content is somehow slightly different to that most music journos are used to, thus he gets the plaudits and the column inches, despite the fact that all his songs are a) abysmal b)charmless and c) deeply forgettable.

I cannot conceive of a situation in which I listen to Mike Skinner and enjoy it.

Haus of Mystery

20:14 / 12.04.06

Mmmm. I do find the rabid assertion that he's some kind of poet laureate for 'urban' kids weird. Roots Manuva was rapping about being skint and eating toast years ago. Rappers full stop have been chronicling the minutiae of their existence for ever. It's all about the poetry of the mundane in some respects. It's hard not to feel that Skinner's often lauded so heavily because he's white.

plus his beats are piss weak, and 'Dry your eyes, mate' is one of the worst songs of the 21st Century.

20:46 / 12.04.06

matt: What is the essential (non-compilation) Bowie album that I should download and try again?

Low. And Station to Station.

20:49 / 12.04.06

Matt, you should get:

Ziggy Stardust
Low
and anything with 'Love You Till Tuesday' on it...

P. Horus Rhacoid

20:49 / 12.04.06

I have a soft spot for The Streets, if only because my roommate last year used to play 'A Grand Don't Come For Free' and give running commentary on what was going on. "The Streets just saw his girlfriend cheat on him!" "Now The Streets is sad!" "Now The Streets is going to learn a lesson about life!"

...

Maybe you had to be there.

22:29 / 12.04.06

Yeah, I wasn’t actually sure of him being a sacred cow, but to some people, he is. And, y’know, any excuse really. A record store owner I know that I used to live with was a big fan, and he was generally clued up with his punk and dance music to the point where I respected his opinion. That said, he also thought ‘Dry your eyes, mate’ was heartfelt and beautiful because it was so genuinely catholic, and I think it’s dire, mewling, baby-puke music, so, a slight difference of opinion there then. It’s not the mundanity of his subject matter so much as his expression of it, though, appearing to lack in effort or passion as it does, it does rather provoke the desire of needing some rawk! Wanting some fire! Burning for the holy sounds of Bon Jovi! Ahem.

To be fair to myself I have listened to some other Marley, but I actually rather like most of the songs on Legend. I don’t even have middle-aged middle-class zombifacation to blame. Shame!

foolish fat finger

23:03 / 12.04.06

I like the Streets... he's not *genius*, but he's got some good tunes... bit like Finley Quaye.

re: Bowie, may I refer u to my previous post.... he floated his songs on the stock exchange. why d'you need more money than £571M? it's like listenin to music by Bill Gates- money, money, money... I loved 'scarey monsters' when it come out, but now it's just like 'scarey downtown on the FTS index'- can't listen to him. always crashin in the same stock market...

04:02 / 13.04.06

Roots Manuva was rapping about being skint and eating toast years ago.

Personally, if it's a case of preference Roots Manuva wins hands down every time. Simply because he is much much better in every concievable way.
(I wish I could be more erudite about this but it is v. early and I am v. drunk and alas the capacity for erudite music postings is not mine to command.)

21:01 / 14.04.06

Canadian publication reviews the Streets. Calls him a "grime genius"

21:12 / 14.04.06

I've always thought the relative wealth of pop stars was an excellent reason to dismiss their work.

I mean, c'mon, obviously!

21:37 / 14.04.06

the streets is a novelty act; a few good tunes and a few clever lyrics do not make a genius.
fuck, if it does then i know several musicians of super genius level.

he struck it lucky, and that's in part to do with him having a good ear for a tune.
sometimes.

but that last one of his is fucking terrible, to the point where i get to feeling bad for the little mellow monkey for his having to perform it. it's about then that i realise he is the one who can end this for all of us, and that's when the hate kicks in.

have you heard that fucking chorus?
its the worst chorus in all of chorus writing ever!
motherfuck!
the kid has made his bucks with that talking-to-you-like-a-mate-down-the-pub style, fair enough.
but that chorus takes it too far.

when you're a famous boy, it gets really easy to get girls,
it's all so easy you get a bit spoilt.
so, when you try to pull a girl, who is also famous too,
it feels just like when you wasnt famous.

jesus fuck, that boy needs to shut his mouth until he can do something about fixing that horrendous speech impediment he calls a brain.

07:23 / 15.04.06

Come on toksik, dry your eyes mate. I know it's hard to take.

foolish fat finger

17:28 / 17.04.06

ha ha ha!!! yeah, you've got to walk away now- it's over...

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