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Kill A Sacred Cow Here!

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09:12 / 04.04.06

The velvets.

Woo!!! They sang about smack1! Gosh, aren't drugs cool etc. So lil' Lou read some Camus and bought a black polo neck -to my mind, that does not a genius make.

John Cale, on the other hand...

09:27 / 04.04.06

What's pretentious about it? It isn't made by a fourpiece indy band with floppy fringes?

Definition of pretentious from dictionary.com

"Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified."

I don't see anything of any merit in his work- no melodies, it leaves me cold- i don't get why he's always held on a pedestal as such a great musician, believe me i've tried to like him- it just don't do it for me. I realise that this is subjective but then isn't all music appreciation.

lord nuneaton savage

09:38 / 04.04.06

Horses and courses, I know, but I'd say that Aphex Twin's melodies are one of his main redeeming features. They're certainly what seperates him from a lot of other bad Warp influenced acts.

11:18 / 04.04.06

but I'd say that Aphex Twin's melodies are one of his main redeeming features. They're certainly what seperates him from a lot of other bad Warp influenced acts.

i wince at how bad they must be.

11:30 / 04.04.06

Aphex Twin I can understand. Selected Ambient Works had provided me with so much background music throughout my life that I can't not like it. Similarly Come to Daddy, Rubber Johhny and alot of other Aphex Twin's song satisfy a liking that I have for horror and comedy (or at least, I think there is a humour to his music). Aphex Twin=A-ok.

i wince at how bad they must be.
Boards of Canada are WARP, aren't they? I've just never gotten them. Not that I exactly hate them, but they leave me cold. I do, however hate, the way people seem to like shoving them down my fucking throat.

12:47 / 04.04.06

The velvets.

Woo!!! They sang about smack1! Gosh, aren't drugs cool etc. So lil' Lou read some Camus and bought a black polo neck -to my mind, that does not a genius make.

You'll forgive me for saying you sound like somebody who hasn't spent a great deal of time listening to the Velvet Underground.

(..and I wish I could say that was the first time I'd used that sentence in a cruelly dismissive fashion..)

lonely as a cloud...

13:57 / 04.04.06

I'm with rizla on the Velvets. Granted, they are certainly a sacred cow, and a valid target for this thread, but...well, what rizla said. They have so much more than drugs songs, even after John Cale was kicked out.

Oh, and how d'you make out Camus as a major influence on Lou Reed? Just out of curiosity, Burroughs and Hubert Selby Jr would be his most obvious influences...

A

14:17 / 04.04.06

Like "Lonesome Cowboy Bill"?

lonely as a cloud...

14:31 / 04.04.06

If you can't see the genius in that song, Adam, then I despair of you

14:42 / 04.04.06

Indeed.

16:08 / 04.04.06

'Sweet Jane' 'Who Loves The Sun' and 'Rock n roll' from Loaded- a post cale album and all, in my mind bloody great tunes.

I don't understand how you can seperate a love of John Cale but hate The Velvet Underground- what about White Light, White Heat- with Cale led tracks like The Gift- even if you hate Lou Reed this is bloody great- and John Cale at his finest IMHO.

I think that while The Velvet Underground & Nico has some great tracks on it- (I like it and own it) it has been a little over-rated- but their is soooo much more to the VU than one album- get Loaded to see what i mean.

And while i'm pretty sure that Lou Reed is a massive twat- you can't deny the genius of Transformer. Even after the 90's post trainspotting/ BBC advert mauling of Perfect day its still a great record- go on just try and deny 'Walk on the Wild Side'!

18:43 / 04.04.06

Surprisingly enough I can kind of relate to your Aphex dislike Copey, although as a lover of electronic music and a child of the rave generation some of the Aphex Twin's work speaks to me on a really deep level.

For me Richard James's output can be divided into two distinct periods. His earlier work - the work that I love - is simply awesome (and at the time spectacularly innovative) electronic music. During this period he practically invented IDM.
His later work - post huge success - whilst still thoughtful and occasionally inspired stuff, has always struck me as a little too self conscious and perhaps a little less fresh, although I am aware that it's a tad difficult to sound original when everyone and their uncle is making IDM and frequently copying you.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:29 / 04.04.06

To me the problem with the Aphex Twin was always the lack of quality control*. His early publicity made such a big deal of how prolific he was, when in reality he just released anything he'd recorded regardless of whether it was any good or indeed finished. Certainly I can think of a lot of tracks (most of the "remixes" of the various On eps, for example) where it sounds like he came up with an (admittedly cool) noise then fucked off to the shops.

That said, I still love Ventolin.

*that and the fact that an old flatmate of mine played that fucking didgeridoo track 24 hours a day when it first came out. "I'm gonna buy a didge", he'd always say, but never did, which was a shame because I was looking forward to stuffing it up his arse.

Haus of Mystery

12:01 / 05.04.06

Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified."

Yeah, but does he do this? I think The Twin is someone who has specialised in making accessible weird electronica, that has a sense of humour. Labelling it 'pretentious' says more about your perception of music than his.
I just think it's a lazy criticism.

14:15 / 05.04.06

Handbags at dawn!11!11

Surely the mere fact that he's making and releasing records is an indication that he belives his music is worth something.

The fact that he uses his own face on other people to market the music via Chris Cunningham videos/ artwork indicates a certain sense of his own importance- hence vaguely pretentious- or maybe i'm missing the in joke.

(I realise that i'm on slightly shakey ground here- and may have used the wrong terminology- but i don't really want to back down - doesn't stop me thinking that his music's a bit shit though...)

15:03 / 05.04.06

Surely the mere fact that he's making and releasing records is an indication that he belives his music is worth something.

By that logic pretty much all musicians - all artists - are pretentious, making your criticism somewhat redundant.

Copey, am I wrong in assuming that you've never been a big fan of electronic music (observers please note that Copey and I know each other IRL)? I mean, do you feel capable of *getting* the Aphex Twin, and if not are you sure it's because he's pretentious and not because you have trouble with the kind of music he makes.

16:37 / 05.04.06

(I realise that i'm on slightly shakey ground here- and may have used the wrong terminology- but i don't really want to back down - doesn't stop me thinking that his music's a bit shit though...)

i'm not a huge fan of the genre- buuut i do own records by 'electronica' acts that i prefer- The Knife, Kraftwerk, Ladytron, Peaches- although clearly these are all at the more commercial pop end of the market- i guess i find the post rock stuff like boards of canada pretty soul-less - I can't say I haven't tried with certain friends making me compilations and forking out on said AT albums- just not my thing at all.

By that logic pretty much all musicians - all artists - are pretentious, making your criticism somewhat redundant.

I think we've had this conversation before Boboss and no offense meant to the desperate few musicians that don't have huge egos but the ones i know and have met are often pretty pretentious- I guess by definition the term pretentious shit is a subjective one- with the shit bit being the real critisism...

18:41 / 05.04.06

It's the soulessness that I like about early Twin and a lot of other electronic music. Of course I probably read that soulessness very differently, and I probably wouldn't choose that word, but I know what you mean.

10:23 / 06.04.06

lord nuneaton suggested:
>I take it that you mean The Undisputed Truth?
i did, my apologies, their early norman whitfield lps are awesome

>And Funkadelic are brilliant, cloth ears.

i repeat, i just don't get it, but dislike it in the same way i dislike Zappa, not that they haven't released a few good tracks but the combination of prog excess and lack of a decent tune make them unlistenable to me, and i know Clinton can write a decent tune as some of the Pariaments singles i have are lovely. if i was to give them another go and dig those LPs out, what should i be listening for in them that i might like?

Haus of Mystery

10:31 / 06.04.06

'Maggot Brain' & 'Free Your Mind (and your ass will follow)' are both awesome.

Maggot Brain's final track is called 'Wars of Armageddon'. What's not to like?

lord nuneaton savage

12:43 / 06.04.06

"Super Stupid" (again off Maggot Brain) is my favourite track of theirs, probably 'cos it's the closest to straight-out-the-gate, Hendrix-ian riff monsterousness (it's a word, I made it up). They have a very unique vibe, do Funkadelic. You're never sure who's doing what or how many people are on each record, you just get a feel from them that's all their own.

I love the way that it always sounds like one of their drunk mates has snuck into the studio, joined in with the backing vocals and is taking the piss.

Pluas, as Rufus in Bill & Ted put it, it's excellent for dancing.

14:10 / 06.04.06

In answer to the thread's original question: Jimi Hendrix.

lord nuneaton savage

14:24 / 06.04.06

And I would agree with you, to a point, fahdiz. He is loved in a way that makes me want to stop listening to his music altogether. The worship of him as some kind of superhuman, guitar slinging demigod sticks in the throat a little, as does the utterly horrible airbrushed artwork he seems to inspire in the talentless.

The things I like about Hendrix are the subtler things; his voice, for example, is a beautifully sensitive instrument in its own right; Beguiling and mysterious. And I must confess a fondness for his lyrics, Which, I know, can be a bit silly and mystic-sixties but have a strange, lovely vision all of their own.

Also as a producer he was superbly imaginitive. You get the feeling that he saw his tunes (certainly later ones) as sound paintings (which is a horrible phrase) but which, for me, puts him more on the same league as someone like Lee Perry or Sun Ra.

And, c'mon let's be honest here, "Voodoo Chile (slight return)" kicks ASS.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:57 / 06.04.06

Copey, do you want some tissues? there's some brown stuff on the side of yr mouth!

Try listening to a good cross section of Aphex Twin's work including his remix efforts before making rather odd observations.

P.S i love you, you turdus.

15:17 / 06.04.06

Try listening to a good cross section of Aphex Twin's work including his remix efforts before making rather odd observations.

I own both Classics and Selected Ambient Works- and obviously know the "singles"- i've honestly never got into Aphex Twin despite people like yourself and MacReady's disappointment- i've tried to like it- but its got a fucking Didgeridoo on it... The most tuneless useless trustafarian instrument eva!11!11 don't tell me- he has a live Bongo player too?

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

15:20 / 06.04.06

Wow that much hey! That's about 10% of his output then!

Bitty.

15:21 / 06.04.06

lord nuneaton says of hendrix:

but which, for me, puts him more on the same league as someone like Lee Perry

now as a fervent collector of JA 7s i love perry as a producer, and for about 10 years he was top of his game, but perry since then has been a travesty of a fiasco of a i dunno somthing else embarrassing,
basically providing pantomime minstrelly for the beastie boys generation, like my gran (god bless her) at a wedding after a few too many port and lemons, an embarrassment basically to anyone who cares about her but maybe amusing for passing trade

he's produced little of substance in 30 years and makes a living embarassing himself over either half decent mad professor mixes or awful reggea muzak, and i wish he would just live on his royalties and not ruin the happy memories

agree with everything lord n says about hendrix however and will return to my p funk records this evening with fresh ears.

Haus of Mystery

16:08 / 06.04.06

despite people like yourself and MacReady's disappointment

I'm not dissappointed. I always knew you were a bell-end.

17:06 / 06.04.06

Aphex twin you are a Rick Wakeman of the 90's making pretentious shite for lost teenage boys desperate to be seen as grown ups cos they get the difficult stuff....

obviously i hit a nerve

Haus of Mystery

17:46 / 06.04.06

I can't believe you're quoting yourself.

18:01 / 06.04.06

Funkadelic never do the souless noodleing of prog. I love the first few albums. I have a great P Funk ballads tape ("Soft side of the P"), Doctorbeck, I'll copy it for you.

18:06 / 06.04.06

Bob Marley

Again, black music for people who don't like black music. It's not even that the tunes themselves are terrible, it's just that ...years, whole decades even, of grating repition from TV adverts and people who only own one LP - "Legend". If I never here any of those songs again, it'll be too soon.

Haus of Mystery

18:46 / 06.04.06

Seconded, thirded and fourthed on that one. My school days were plagued by white middle class kids lecturing me on 'Robert Nestor Marley' and Rastafarianism. You've never felt rage till you've heard a 15 yr old kid from Kent saying 'Jah, ras tafari' at you.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

22:50 / 06.04.06

here here. Bloody Dave Watson in the 4th yr going on about how he was a rasta. AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

lord nuneaton savage

07:49 / 07.04.06

Ah, 'Legend'. The sound that Peugot's make when the sun comes out.

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