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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

LOST season 5 (with Spoilers)

  
  

Page: 123(4)56789

 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:36 / 26.02.09
I've got a feeling the whole plane will make it to the island. When Sawyer was held captive, they had him breaking rocks to build a runway.

I've seen this idea posted about elsewhere on the web, as well. It's interesting, given the Ajira water bottle on the post-apocalyptic beach camp, but it's hard to reconcile with the fact that Jack, Kate, and Hurley appeared on the island during the 70s/80s and that Sawyer was breaking rocks in 2004 on the Hydra island.

Of course, I thought the runway idea was from a joke by Juliet, so who knows.

Well color me wrong. It seems very likely that the plane hard landed on the Hydra Island in the O6 timeframe (present day). This would make sense given the Ajira bottle that appears on the main island when they discover the "wrecked" beach camp and outrigger boats. It seems likely that Lapidus and Sun took an outrigger to the main island, followed at some point by other survivors on Hydra, who ended up shooting at our left-behinders. Whew... mental gymnastics.

Somehow Daniel's notebook and map wind up on Hydra island which Caesar finds. Leading to the question, when does Daniel visit Hydra? Sometime between 1970 (Dharma days) and 2007 (present time).
 
 
Dead Megatron
21:30 / 26.02.09
1. Who is telling the truth? Ben or Widmore?
2. Likewise, which is "good" and which is "bad"?

My gut is that Ben is a lying little jealous shit so Widmore's exposition could be truth.

My guess is both of them are bad, and they both want to (re)take control of the island for selfish reasons. And, having run dry on lies, they both are resorting to the very desperate measure of actually telling some of the truth, though never the whole of it.

It seems also we may have just seen the last of Walt in the show... though, still, who can be sure?
 
 
Tsuga
22:21 / 26.02.09
They made Widmore seem the more reasonable, and unless Ben has some ulterior motive for killing...someone, then he's decidedly bad. But I can't help remembering Widmore with Desmond, and really throughout his history in the show, being despicable.
They still haven't explained how everyone came to be on the plane.
So, some of them landed in current time, and some landed back in the seventies, hence some at the beach with boats, and some with a Dharma Jin?
 
 
wicker woman
07:50 / 27.02.09
More and more, I'm beginning to view Ben and Widmore both as petulant, dangerous children squabbling over the island and everyone else is, much to their misfortune, caught in the middle.

So, anyway. Jesus / Locke, who came to earth to sacrifice himself for humanity's sins / came to the mainland to sacrifice himself for the Oceanic Six's mistakes, ends up getting strung up by the old guard, and is bodily resurrected after 3 days / 3 years.

(The 3 years thing may well be off, since Locke wasn't on the mainland that entire time, but I'm running with it anyway.)
 
 
Tsuga
09:02 / 27.02.09
I find it interesting that they've always portrayed Locke as either inexplicably overconfident and driven or utterly weak, lost and confused. It's actually kind of funny, I think they must be having at least some fun with it.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:17 / 27.02.09
Locke contemplating suicide was one of the strongest emotional moments in the show for me. Did he plan to do it because the island said so, or did he just lost all hope and quit? And now that he's Undead Locke (as opposed to Ghost Locke), will he change in any significant way? He certainly does not seem to possess the cryptic knowledge and foresight the Ghosts usually dsplay.
 
 
buttergun
16:48 / 27.02.09
So far this season has walked a fine line between good and ridiculous. (Though we've yet to plunge to the nadir of that moment in Season 2 when Kate saw her horse...on the island. If ever there was a "jump the shark" moment for Lost, that was it.) I'm enjoying it, but I too am wondering over the headlong plummet of this season, especially when compared to the crawling pace of previous seasons.

One thing that annoys me about Lost is how it always fails to rise to the level of making fun of itself. It always falls on Sawyer's shoulders, with every other character (even Hurley these days) deathly serious. For example, when Whittmore gave Locke his cover name of Jeremy Bentham, and told Locke Bentham was an English philosopher, I so wanted Locke to say, "So was John Locke."

Anyway. I'm not thrilled about a new plane-full of people on the island, though the guy who hid away the shotgun seems interesting.
 
 
buttergun
16:52 / 27.02.09
Meant to comment -- my take on Ben killing Locke was probably some metaphysical schtick that savior Locke had to die so he could be reborn, but not by his own hand. Otherwise why would Ben be so careful to get Locke's corpse on the plane, etc? It seems obvious that Ben knew Locke would be reborn Christ-like on the island. If you look at any other religious myth, the godlike character is usually killed by others before being reborn, but very rarely takes his own life.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:03 / 27.02.09
For example, when Whittmore gave Locke his cover name of Jeremy Bentham, and told Locke Bentham was an English philosopher, I so wanted Locke to say, "So was John Locke."

Doesn't Widmore actually say "Your parents had a sense of humor, so I figure I can, as well."?
 
 
buttergun
17:06 / 27.02.09
Did he really say that? If so, I confess I missed it -- and thereby retract my comment on Lost failing to rise to the stated level of self-parody.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:59 / 27.02.09
Yes, he really did say that. Pay attention, buttergun. How can you say the show lacks parody when the main bad guy is named after this guy?



I wonder if in the future the expression "jump the shark" will be replaced by "return to the island".

It's feasible, y'know...
 
 
buttergun
20:08 / 27.02.09
Awesome!

I think one of the reasons I've continued to be a Lost fan is just reading this stuff on Barbelith.
 
 
Van Plague?
03:03 / 02.03.09
I'd like to second that. I might have given up on Lost completely back in Season 3 if not for the Lost threads here. I look forward to your comments every week (but offer up none of my own like a good little lurker - trust me, it's better this way).
 
 
Spaniel
08:27 / 03.03.09
Hurley takes the piss too. In fact in jokes are forever bubbling to the surface. Lost is nothing like as po-faced as most popular US TV dramas that aren't supposed to be comedic. Battlestar Galactica's relentless seriousness and self importance are a big part of why I don't like it anywhere near as much as Lost.

I think your reading of the Ben Widmore dynamic probably has more than a little truth to it, bear, but I remain convinced that Ben thinks that he is working for the greater good. That what he does absolutely has to be done, or else Very Bad Things will happen, and he doesn't trust anyone else to make the difficult decisions he manages on a daily basis.

So why did Ben kill Locke? I'm guessing he didn't want Locke to meet thingy Hawking - makes the most sense given the information available to us in that scene. Question: does he think he's killing Locke permanently? I think it's doubtful given that a) he takes such good care of the John's body and gets it on that plane, b) that he probably knows what Richard Alpert knows re Locke's death. Of course, he might not be expecting a corporeal Locke to be making an appearance any time soon, but my guess is that all the time travel shenanigans point to Richard and Ben knowing for a fact that Locke will be back in something more than phantom form.

DM, I was keen on the complexity of Locke's motivations to commit suicide, too. That struck me as another example of Lost doing character work considerably better than its competition.
 
 
buttergun
17:17 / 05.03.09
Last night's episode was a perfect example of the forced constraints of the plot overriding character.

Seriously...if I discovered I'd been time-jumped back to 1974 (the year I was born!), and then was told there was a submarine waiting to take me back to civilization...I'd be like, "Nice knowing you guys, and to hell with all this metaphysical island stuff -- there's this newfound company called Microsoft I need to go invest a few hundred dollars in."

I'm not sure if we'll get more detail on the seventies adventures of Sawyer et al...but really, wouldn't that really screw with you? They were in 2004 for the first few seasons, and then Locke left, but they had no idea WHEN. So, even if Locke HAD left the island in 2004 (though it turns out it was 2007, right?), and Sawyer et al were thrust back to 1974...wouldn't they have realized it would be at least 33 YEARS until Locke came back? They were putting so much in faith that it was ridiculous -- the sudden theorizing that since their headaches were gone it was all over, the adamant belief that Locke would be back..."sometime." Like I said, this season has walked a fine line between really good and really stupid.

And yes, I know -- faith plays a big part in this show and always has.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:43 / 05.03.09
Funk all that stuff. Let's talk about the fucking statue.

Holy shit!

1. Big Egyptian statue.
2. Ankh necklace
3. Hieroglyphics
4. Horace = Horus

OH snap is this show really about some lost Egyptian-ancient-powerful-civilization-Atlantis shiz??? To be perfectly honestly, I kind of think the show is meant to be a new take on the Atlantis myth. Reason no one can find Atlantis? He didn't sink, it moved. In time. And place.

Maybe this is a hooky answer to the show, but it would be a fairly satisfying to me in that gives a unique take on that myth.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:15 / 06.03.09
I liked that the island made the time-traveling bunch wait three years in the 70s so that they could match up with the off-the-island bunch when they showed up.

Three years is enough to get over someone? Keep on dreaming, James.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:14 / 09.03.09
Umm, a question here.

Did all the other crash survivors left on the island get killed during the flaming arrow attack? Only we've seen neither hide nor hair of them for ages and one presumes they'd have been shunted through time in lock-step (heh, Locke-step) with Sawyer's party if any survived.

It sounded like Sawyer had Jin out looking for them but...three years searching an island that they appear to be able to cross in a couple of days (how big is the island supposed to be?). One would have thought that they'd have found some of them by now.

Incidentally, liked Jin's fluent English in the "three years later". Also Sawyer's name-checking the Black Rock whilst BS-ing.
 
 
Spaniel
12:45 / 09.03.09
Last night's episode was a perfect example of the forced constraints of the plot overriding character.

I get what you’re saying, but I think Juliet, Dan and Sawyer’s decision to stay can certainly be rationalised. Miles and Jinn are more problematic, but given the three year time span there’s room for explanations. Frankly, I think the idea that 90% of the population would just bugger off to make their millions doesn’t fit with my experience – people are more complicated and a good deal weirder than that, if you ask me.
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:14 / 09.03.09
There's also the question of whether or not the island would have let them leave anyway.
 
 
Spaniel
16:04 / 09.03.09
Good point
 
 
Tsuga
21:05 / 10.03.09
I don't think we've gotten to the point of the second submarine trip yet, right? No doubt something big happens that we've not been told yet, something that keeps them on the island. We don't know anything about the 3 years later island survivors, except that they integrated into the Dharma group somehow, perhaps after gaining trust through the Richard incident. I'll bet something ends up putting the kibosh on the sub.
 
 
Tsuga
01:12 / 20.03.09
I'm not quite sure what to say about the last episode. It was pretty good, engaging, making things more complicated without really answering any questions. Kind of like season 3. I felt like it moved the story along, though, it was a progression. What's Sayid going to do to young Ben? What the hell is Christian supposed to be? Also, is Jack turning into Locke now?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:17 / 20.03.09
The last two episodes seems mostly like transition episodes. Every big story has to have those moments, I suppose, moving people in place. So, like you, I don't have much to say about it. It seems that everything is poised to get really interesting and possibly lead somewhere that.... changes the future. For all of Daniel's talk that you can't, it seems that the purpose of placing them in Dharma before the Purge is.... purposeful.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:01 / 20.03.09
it's fucking Frank Lapidus, Helicopter Pilot!

Beardless Frank Lapidus, Commercial Airline Pilot. What will be the nefarious consequence of such... "triming down"?

I would like to take this opportunity to retract my comment reproduced above. Frank Lapidus managed to dodge two mountains on a freaking commercial airliner with half its engines off and would have managed to make a perfect landing if the landing strip wasn't so damn short. How cool is that? His powers are clearly not stored in his beard, somehow...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:29 / 20.03.09
It's the sideburns obviously.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
21:40 / 20.03.09
I feel the same, I've had little in the way of concrete thoughts other than that I'm enjoying the hell out of this series. However...

I've always bought into the time-loop idea, and the reappearance of the whispers when Sun and Frank went to New Otherton did nothing but reinforce that for me. The whispers are where the timelines cross over somehow. Like, all the O6 seem connected narratively, so while the rest of them are in NO in the 70s, Sun hears them in 2007.

I don't think the purge is going to be the end of the season. I think they're gone by then. There's been talk of an "event", which cost Pierre Chang his arm and instigated the button regime. It might have something to do with the atom bomb. I think that this event, whatever it is, is the finale, and forces at least one of them to go underground and adopt a new identity; Jacob. I always thought Jacob was Locke, but I increasingly think he could be Sawyer. Jacob is James, no...?

Still. Great show.
 
 
Tsuga
22:09 / 20.03.09
Could be Jack, hence is ultra-importance in the grand scheme that's been hinted at throughout. I'm curious to see where the battle originates between Widmore and Ben, or "others/hostiles" and anyone else trying to gain a foothold there. It's interesting that young Widmore was with Richard, I can't remember; have Richard and Ben ever been shown associating? They were, weren't they? When Richard was first shown, it was with Ben, right?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:17 / 21.03.09
I don't think the purge is going to be the end of the season. I think they're gone by then. There's been talk of an "event", which cost Pierre Chang his arm and instigated the button regime. It might have something to do with the atom bomb. I think that this event, whatever it is, is the finale, and forces at least one of them to go underground and adopt a new identity; Jacob. I always thought Jacob was Locke, but I increasingly think he could be Sawyer. Jacob is James, no...?

The purge is quite a few years away, at least 10-15 given Ben's age. As for the guesses about the finale... I think you are right. But Sawyer as Jacob? I don't know. I like Daniel as Jacob but it's pretty wide open at this point in our knowledge of Jacob.
 
 
Mistoffelees
08:34 / 21.03.09
The purge is quite a few years away, at least 10-15 given Ben's age

Yes, the writers have confirmed the incident is not the purge. It´s probably a discovery that leads to the pushing of the lottery numbers.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:40 / 24.03.09
You know that weird discrepancy about Charlotte's stated birthday (1979) vs. when Daniel sees her in 1974? Apparently, this mistake lead to quite the drama.

At least we know it was a big blunder. No way to really fix it on the show, but there you go...
 
 
Mistoffelees
15:50 / 24.03.09
I read they could redub it on the DVD and maybe also on reruns.
 
 
Tsuga
01:18 / 26.03.09
Well, that was a good one. Had a couple of funny moments, as well.
"You gave me just the right amount"
Kate still hasn't said why she came back. Jin got knocked the fuck out. Jack is just a Workman with a fire hose.
Sayid's a killer, but as far as young Ben goes,
"It's like I tell all my boys...Always put one in the brain!"
 
 
Mistoffelees
12:51 / 26.03.09
That´s exactly what I thought, too. We know from all the Freddy, Scream and Jason movies, it´s the only way to be sure. And that goes especially for an island with ridiculous healing powers. Doesn´t Sayid know that Locke survived his gut shot wound?
 
 
buttergun
13:38 / 26.03.09
I just think it's so incredulously stupid, the entire thing -- the Losties hanging out with young Ben and the Dharma group, running around in their ridiculous little jumpsuits. I really don't know what the hell show we are watching, I really don't.

One of the many reasons I think UK shows are better -- because they know at the start it will only be so many episodes long. Planning like that would've prevented the plotholes we're now mired in. We're supposed to believe that Ben, who's been around since Season 2, actually knew the Losties when he was a kid...feeding Sayid sandwhiches, even! All the more ridiculous when you realize that the actor playing Ben was originally contracted TO ONLY APPEAR IN A FEW EPISODES. Not only did they then elaborate his character and make him a much bigger part...but now they've even given him a retroactive role in the past. I know the fans will come on here and defend this until they're blue in the face..."Ben's a manipulator and has been hiding it all along" and yadda yadda, but really it's just...well, it's just stupid. What we're seeing this season is the writers crawling so far up their own asses that they can't find their way back out.

They rushed the characters back to the island, and now it's like they have nothing for them to do. Would YOU casually take up life in the Dharma Initiative, even though you were just in 2007 and it's now 1977? Would YOU put on a jumpsuit and hang around in a camp compound, biding your time for...something? Knowing all along that the people you are with are fated to die horribly sometime very soon? Would you? Really? Yet that's what our heroes are doing.

Sawyer's new role as a Dharma functionary irks me too, as it's taking focus away...the producers built up the approaching reunion between him and Kate and Jack, etc, but now when the moment arrives it's as underwhelming as a Jehovah Witness's birthday party.

No, Sawyer's now IMPORTANT, he has a ROLE to play with the Dharma freaks...and yeah, sure, I realize that he's been with them for 3 years, so possibly the bonds he's built with them are stronger than those he built with the Losties in the 100 days they were on the island...yet those 100 days were FOUR SEASONS for us. We are invested in the Lost characters, NOT the Dharma characters. I could give a good damn about Horace and Michelle from 24 and the whole damn group. The way this season is playing out is the most circuitous misery and the saddest thing is, it's pointless. And the forced tension they're creating between our characters -- Sawyer and Jack back to a Season 1 rivalry, Sayid taking out Jin, the whole shebang...good lord.

Anyway...my two favorite moments last night:

Ben's dad throwing away Sayid's sandwhich. I laughed aloud at that, because Ben's dad is the janitor...so he's eventually gonna have to go pick up that sandwhich.

Jin showing up at the end. Another laugh aloud moment...so Jin's just been aimlessly driving around the island all this time, searching for Sun?
 
  

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