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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

LOST season 5 (with Spoilers)

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11:07 / 03.02.09

I dunno, I like my theory better because it demands that we make less stuff up - like spirits possessing corpses. Here's how I see it working

1. Present Locke finds a way off the Island when he time-shifts to a point in time that would fit with him being able to get back to the mainland and visit the Oceanic 6

2. Leaving the Island makes him sick because it turns out that the Island was the only thing keeping him alive (I can picture a variation on this where his body suffers some sort of trauma whilst he's making his attempt to leave). This is a plausible extension of what we know about both the character and the Island.

3. He dies after visiting everyone

4. Ben's gang know what's happening and take control of his body. All sorts of things could explain this

5. Locke is taken back to the Island and revives

Now, point 5 is the stretch, but I think we're all agreed that something like this looks very much like it's set to happen. I'm assuming that the Island can revive Locke because a) it's simply a further extension of what we already know, and b) may well fit with things we've already seen: Locke getting shot, Mikhail's apparent indestructability, etc...

Of course this being Lost any number of less predictable explanations are possible

11:13 / 03.02.09

Well, by "Spirit Locke", I mean just the way dead people keep appearing on the island, or to people who's been on the island, like Spirit Charlie, Spirit Jack's Dad, and so on. Maybe it was Spirit Locke who talked to Jack off-island? Meh, who knows?

11:38 / 03.02.09

Yeah, that is of course the other possibility. Not sure why they'd need to keep Locke's body safe in order for that to happen however (other people whose bodies aren't on the Island appear there all the time), but, hey, who knows!

16:01 / 03.02.09

other people whose bodies aren't on the Island appear there all the time

Do they? As far as I can recall, every "ghost" died in the island and there their body remained, or had their body transported to the island post-mortem, after which they began appearing, though not necessarily appearing on the island. Jack's Dad body was lost in the island after the crash. Charlie's body is in the sea by the island. Claire died in the island. Mr. Eko's younger brother's body is in the small plane that fell on the island, close to Boone's body. Ana Lucia, also killed in the island. The only possible exceptions I can think of are Kate's horse, Hurley's imaginary friend (though I'm not sure he classifies as ghost) and Walt, who appeared in the island as a ghost to Locke without being dead. Did I forget someone?

BTW, now that Michael is dead and time in the show has (sort of) catch up with real time, I wonder if they will bring his spooky psichic kid back to the show. I mean, didn't the island want all of them back?

17:01 / 03.02.09

I have long thought that Jacob is Locke. I have no real reason for this, it's just the Island giving me messages.

17:55 / 03.02.09

Claire is dead? That´s news to me. Just because she´s hanging out with her dad, doesn´t mean she´s died.

18:48 / 03.02.09

Good point. Assuming that she's dead, I should have said.

19:15 / 03.02.09

Perhaps the 'spirits' are people moving/skipping in time therefore appearing in random places at random times much like the way Locke appears to Richard in the season 5 narrative.

I have also wondered whether Jacob has been travelling in time (sort of) for a long time therefore knows loads about the island. Kind of explains the cabin sometime being there and sometimes not, maybe?

20:24 / 03.02.09

Glad you mentioned the exceptions, DM. I had them in mind when I said what I said

21:19 / 03.02.09

Of course, now we know that there's a hydrogen bomb on the island, as well.

Hurley's "imaginary" friend is the biggest outlier I can think of. There are still the mysteries of the smoke thingy, the polar bear (which I know was somewhat explained), and Walt, though I'm sure I'm forgetting about twenty more. Ben wouldn't be so intent on bringing Locke back unless he's going to be revived or used in some unholy ceremony.

07:46 / 04.02.09

For sure

23:31 / 04.02.09

They're re-running the last episode, it's the "enhanced" version, that is, with popup info at the bottom of the screen. They are talking about Desmond's "side effect" time-travel, and Faraday's experiment on the rats (one, incidentally, named Eloise, which I'd forgotten), and they specifically and repeatedly mention Desmond and the rat's "consciousness" traveling through time.

05:18 / 05.02.09

Bit late catching up on this thread; my computer crapped out on me a couple weeks ago and I've been surfing on my Wii.

Anyway, Tsuga, you said something earlier about why Widmore had "gone rogue", and I had some thoughts on that.

My guess would be that the reason Ben knows that the person who moves / shifts the island has to leave it is because they had some need to do it before, and Ben tricked Widmore into doing it. Widmore gets booted off the island, all kinds of pissed off and obsessed with returning. It dovetails nicely with his hatred of Ben; i.e., "you stole the island from me".

Thoughts on tonight's ending: That was supposed to be a big reveal? Who she was, was pretty obvious from the moment we see the rescue raft.

10:46 / 05.02.09

DM, come to think of it, I prefer your idea. It would fit what we've seen (although some stuff, like the horse, would need to explained away) and go some way to filling us in on what all those apparitions are all about. Two birds, one stone.

Keith, like a scientist

12:35 / 05.02.09

Thoughts on tonight's ending: That was supposed to be a big reveal? Who she was, was pretty obvious from the moment we see the rescue raft.

But the question is: how did that encounter happen? Rousseau never mentioned meeting Jin back in the day... and Faraday claimed that something like that couldn't happen because it never did happen... is Faraday lying about that "rule" because he knows it could have consequences?

22:39 / 05.02.09

That is a pickle, because she does meet Jin later, right? I can't really remember for sure. So Jin has been floating on a raft, flashing through time, for how long?

Keeping in mind, of course, that time is relative.

How are they going to resolve the dead people reappearing to haint the living?

22:42 / 05.02.09

But the question is: how did that encounter happen? Rousseau never mentioned meeting Jin back in the day

Why would she have mentioned it? The crash survivors already had their doubts about her sanity. No good reason for her to sound even more crazy ("That guy over there? Guess what, I met him the day I came here!").

06:09 / 06.02.09

But the question is: how did that encounter happen? Rousseau never mentioned meeting Jin back in the day

Why would she have mentioned it? The crash survivors already had their doubts about her sanity. No good reason for her to sound even more crazy ("That guy over there? Guess what, I met him the day I came here!").

Jin also could have told her to never mention him (maybe saying, "It. Cause. time. majorfuckup." LOL!). She might have known him all along. She might have even approached him in a moment we didn't see (yet) and spoke to him of it. Early on Jin couldn't speak any english and would not recognise her in any event, he wouldn't understand even if she did speak to him. She may have doubted her memories, it is a weird island...

But imagine Jin tells her that her something like she dies saving Alex's life? I think that would be interesting, that she always knew.

I hope they don't drop a coconut on her head and she gets amnesia forgetting Jin or similar device. That would be no fun.

08:11 / 06.02.09

I hope they don't drop a coconut on her head and she gets amnesia forgetting Jin or similar device. That would be no fun.

Locke: "But why didn´t Rousseau ever mention that Jin told her the location of every station and village of the Others 16 years ago?"

Faraday: "How could she! You see, because of the Hamilton-Fermi effects of the island, people can only remember time traveller messages if they have been told in their native tongue!"

Locke: "Ah. Of course."

Let´s see, what the purpose of Jin meeting Rousseau is supposed to be, since according to the show, it doesn´t matter what he tells her, she can´t change a thing about it anyway.

the credible hulk

23:40 / 08.02.09

Uh, also... Could you remember the face of someone you met briefly 16 years ago if you met them today? I'm shitty with names and faces of people I see on a regular basis, man.

Keith, like a scientist

03:38 / 09.02.09

Had no idea that questioning the internal logic as set forth 3 episodes previously would generate such a defense. I mean, I love LOST, too (obviously) but when they state a rule and then seemingly break it a couple episodes later in a major way, I ask the question because, you know, perhaps it means something to the story's progress? That's what this thread is about, I think.

09:33 / 09.02.09

I’m not sure a rule has been broken in that it could simply be that Jin meeting Rousseau back in the day *actually happened*. How the encounter will be explained away with regard to Rousseau and Jin’s present day relationship is what’s puzzling me. I’m sure they’ll get to that, though.

I liked all the interpersonal stuff this episode, particularly the juxtaposition of Sun’s revenge subplot with Jin’s evident good health. Also, as a parent any plot that has a mother fighting for custody of her child is going to suck me in.

12:09 / 09.02.09

I'm with Boboss. The writers even gave us an example of something else that *happened* back in the day but wasn't shown - Sawyer witnessing Aaron's birth. Remember, when the rule was broken with Desmond, he remembered it - it became something that *happened* - and they even had Faraday state that he was an exception.

Also, I have heard strong rumours that the original Rousseau actress will appear this season, so we may well find out that she spoke to Jin, or indeed, knew far more about what was going on the whole time.

I think we have a lot more of these kinds of "Losties behind the scenes" moments to come this season...

Keith, like a scientist

17:32 / 09.02.09

I'm with Boboss. The writers even gave us an example of something else that *happened* back in the day but wasn't shown - Sawyer witnessing Aaron's birth.

No, not exactly. There is nothing that says this event didn't happen back in the day, considering that Kate and Claire didn't see Sawyer at the time. Future Sawyer could have been there without changing the past event. Time travel is weird.

Remember, when the rule was broken with Desmond, he remembered it - it became something that *happened* - and they even had Faraday state that he was an exception.

That's sort of my point, though. They broke the rule and it had real present day ramifications.

Keith, like a scientist

18:52 / 09.02.09

Hmm thinking about this more has me flummoxed so I think I'm just gonna sit the time travel hijinxs out and let them attempt to explain it.

However, I do think the Sawyer/Aaron's Birth is a completely different animal. They didn't interact across the timelines. Faraday/Desmond interacted, Rousseau/Jin are interacting. However, I'll be perfectly happy with the "Desmond is special, Rousseu is friggin' crrrrrrazy!" explanation if that's what it turns out to be.

19:38 / 09.02.09

Keith, I think you and I are in complete agreement:

Sawyer sees birth - rule not broken
Desmond meets Faraday - rule broken with future ramifications
Jin meets Rousseau - rule probably not broken

22:12 / 09.02.09

Remember, when the rule was broken with Desmond, he remembered it - it became something that *happened* - and they even had Faraday state that he was an exception.
I can't remember if he said why Desmond was an exception, though. Also, something that Penny asked him: why did it come to him three years after the fact?

14:37 / 10.02.09

Desmond is probably an exception because of the whole hatch thing and the pink light. Quite why that makes him an exception is a mystery, but I imagine it has something to do with him being exposed to raw time energy or some other amusing nonsense

16:59 / 10.02.09

I'd like to think there's a solid reason for Desmond remembering after so much time, but I suspect it's simply sloppy writing. It just happened narratively, so he remembered. Most people won't even notice, cos time travel's tricky to think around.

18:01 / 10.02.09

Desmond is probably an exception because of the whole hatch thing and the pink light.

Yeah, I think she said something like pushing that button was the most important thing he would ever do in his life. So that's got to be the key.

the credible hulk

19:23 / 10.02.09

Also: Do we have any good reason to think Faraday is being truthful about not being able to change anything? There have been times when he seems to know a little TOO much, if you ask me. The possibility exists that it IS possible to change the past, and he's lying to us, trying to prevent Locke, Sawyer, et al from doing anything he doesn't want done.

20:18 / 10.02.09

That's how I read it too. That it wasn't necessarily the rule of time travel but a rule that Faraday put in place to try and stop everything going tits up.
If they all believe the rule it would probably end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy with none of them breaking it, until perhaps a crucial moment (like when they stopped pressing the button).

Keith, like a scientist

14:02 / 12.02.09

One of the things I like about this show is that they really do keep you guessing about whether or not the island is "good" or "bad." There is evidence on both sides but it does seem like a central theme/mystery of the show.

And, oooh The Temple! Shouldn't we, ahem, go explore that place???

There were quite a lot of questions in this episode but the one I'm most curious about surrounds the nature of Christian Shepherd. What, exactly, is he? He refers to Jack as his son, so it's not as if he is just an apparition of the island using Christian's looks, he actually seems to be Christian in some way.

21:53 / 12.02.09

"The Ghost of Christian Past"

I'm also very interest in the Temple. I even paused to see if I could sort out the symbols in it. One of them - the bird - I'm pretty sure was one the symbols that used to appear in the time clock when people did not push the button.

Plus, the Smoke Monster (a.k.a ancient tecnology-based security system to protect the Temple possibly built by the original - possibly four-toed - inhabitants of the Island* but which seems to be malfuctioning after such a long time, vis-a-vis its bad habit of going after people who are not even close to the Temple, which in turn pobrably doesn't even exist anymore) is back and doing its thing, which is kicking ass and taking names. Always a sight.

And poor Ben. Nobody understands him.

* Sleestaks, maybe?

21:53 / 12.02.09

Jack has always been inordinately important, I'm sure that the plan for Jack is going to be central, in some way. The "good" "evil" thing is a dynamic that looks like it will be central, as well. I wonder if it's going to be one of those endings where this is all the culmination of one ongoing battle between good and evil (in the grander, spiritual, or galactic sense) that ends with evil defeated, but with a chance for another far-off try.

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