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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Lost - Season 4 (US)

  
  

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Spaniel
09:10 / 23.03.08
Oh I agree, Keith. I'm far from convinced, I just think it's a possibility.

I see your point, Mist, but I think that's unlikely. The fact that a fictionalized account isn't implausible in this instance is, IMO, overwhelmed by the pre-established conventions of the show, i.e. that flashbacks are a truthful representation of a character's experience. I'd be much more suspicious if Michael's account was conveyed by in-show dialogue between Sayid, Des and Mike, but as it took the form of flashback I'd be very surprised if it turned out to be fraudulent. Breaking that compact between the audience and creators would be a big, potentially show threatening, breach of trust, if you ask me.
 
 
Mistoffelees
13:20 / 23.03.08
Yes, I agree, Boboss. Many viewers probably would feel cheated. I´d like it better my way, though. That the island (or whatever entity) has such powers, is too implausible, even with ghosts/time machines/immortals and conspiracies thrown in. I don´t expect there ever to be an explanation what the island is about anymore. I now mostly watch it for the entertainment value of the characters and each episode by itself.

Also, the revolver scene reminded me of a very similar scene in Final destination II. A black man tries to kill himself by putting a loaded revolver to his temple and pulls the trigger half a dozen times without a shot being fired. And after everyone realizes that what happened is impossible, someone says "It wasn´t his turn to die", because a supernatural force is meddling with their lives and deaths.
 
 
Spaniel
19:00 / 23.03.08
Do you know, I think that I was subconsciously referencing that very scene when I said that I thought Michael's predicament wasn't hamfistedly articulated.

As for the believability, I do feel your pain, in that remember just how I felt when confronted with the Desmond situation for the first time. It just didn't work for me and failed to work for me until very recently. In fact I'm still not entirely happy with it, although I have come round to the idea that it fits pretty neatly with a bunch of stuff that's been gestating within the show for a aeons and aeons*. Come to think of it, it's partially because of the way that those ideas are starting to firm up that I have confidence that this stuff will reach an explanation that I'll enjoy.

I strongly doubt that we'll ever see an explanation that will account for all of Lost's dark spaces, however, and I'm inclined to think that would be the case regardless of the extent to which it's all been planned out.


*I think the same thing can be said of Michael's inability to kill himself. It does make sense within the internal logic of the show
 
 
Spaniel
19:18 / 23.03.08
I'm inclined to think that would be the case regardless of the extent to which it's all been planned out.

The Natural Way/Pigs summed it up recently when he said that the aesthetic of Lost is mystery.

Very fucking true
 
 
thewalker
21:13 / 25.03.08
Ola,

I jump on this thread after watching every episode, and pretty much ignore other lost sites, here i dont have to search though the crud, so thanks for that.

I didnt question the michael flashback at all, and still wouldnt, even when we are being toyed with by the writers, either cleverly ala the last season finale, or lamely ala sun and jin, they have so far always been reliably true.

It was really cool to hear the slaughterhouse five reference in the background on michaels tv.

and a note i meant to drop last week, its zoe bell, the kiwi stuntwoman who was in deathproof, not zoe ball who married norman cook and is a uk tv presenter.....and i am SURE we will be seeing more of her...one way or another.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:09 / 26.03.08
Well, this was the first episode for ages that didn't really feel like it told us a great deal... which, given that it explained where Michael had been all of season 3, where Walt is, and what Michael was doing on the freighter working for Ben, and so actually told us loads, is quite weird. It felt like filler. Strangeness.

I agree that it's ambiguous as to whether Jin is still on the island or actually dead... either way works for me, frankly. The device of basically coming right out and telling us that a character will die worked like gangbusters for Charlie Pace, who I didn't really even like that much... if they pull off something similar with Jin, who I love, I'll be weeping buckets. Equally, if they're pulling a fast one and Jin's still alive in the future, then I'll be happy too.

Ben's status as 'Bond villain' is working brilliantly for me, and I'm fast loving every minute the CLB* appears on screen. Regarding how they've beefed his character up - butterguns, I know you've got a lot invested in your withering 'they're making this up as they go along' persona on this thread, but here you're reaching. They'd already hinted at a big boss for the Others before 'Henry Gale' was introduced, and it's no stretch to think that, impressed with his performance, they just decided to make 'Henry' into Ben Linus rather than cast someone new.

No more Lost for about four weeks now, right? Shitbox.

* Creepy Little Bastard
 
 
Dead Megatron
16:44 / 26.03.08
It was an OK episode, IMHO. The lack of time-traveling Walt was a bit disapointing, tho.

I find myself more interested in the ship crew (including the "away mission" guys) than in the main characters at this point, but it may be a simple case of neophilia.
 
 
Dead Megatron
16:48 / 26.03.08
Oh yeah, and the post-mortem character development for the Big Guy from the Others whose name escapes me at this moment was nice too. He looked pretty cool kicking ass in a NY alley in a longcoat, then "indulging" himself in an expensive hotel penthouse. If I were a creepy assassin living in an island, I'd do the same.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:42 / 29.03.08
an OK episode, if nothing less - but it was good to see Minkowsky again. the sugar daddy Other seemed more interesting than everything else - although i'm very intriguided by Captain Gault's reaction to the unmasking of Michael.

Gotham, I suppose there was no time-travelling Walt because maybe there is only grown Walt, a glimpse of whom we got at the window scene. we don't know how much time Michael took to reach mainland, resettle and then leave in the freighter. could have been close to a year, and kids can grow a lot in a very short time.

that being said, Walt may have travelled in time to spook Locke with Ben's help, at least if you go with this theory that manages to tie a lot of loose ends with time travel, also managing to explain some characters coming back to life - and why Fate is a key player in the show's mythology. a bit Donnie Darko-ish too.

i'm not a fan of everything there, but there's a lot of interesting stuff, mostly based in dialogue information that not all of us payed attention to, myself included
 
 
Mistoffelees
18:28 / 29.03.08
we don't know how much time Michael took to reach mainland, resettle and then leave in the freighter. could have been close to a year, and kids can grow a lot in a very short time.

Of course we know how much time has passed. As the calendar on the ship has confirmed, there is no serious difference between the time passing on the island and in the rest of the world. There seems to be some problem around the island, but ca 100 days have passed since the crash on both island and the rest of the world.

Michael and Walt leave on day 67 (November 27, 2004), and Michael returns on day 86 (December 16, 2004), the day Naomi parachutes onto the island. So he´s gone for about three weeks.
 
 
Spaniel
18:37 / 29.03.08
Thanks for pointing that out, Mist. I think we shouldn't presume time travel, when time passing is an adequate explanation.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
07:51 / 30.03.08
good thinking, Mist.

add some more days to that, though: according to lostpedia he's been outside the island for a full month, having met Des and Sayid in the freighter on day 98.

i still think 31 days is not enough for all that stuff to happen to him [including building the urge to kill himself], but there you go.
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:14 / 30.03.08
good thinking, Mist.

Thank you.


add some more days to that, though: according to lostpedia he's been outside the island for a full month, having met Des and Sayid in the freighter on day 98.

Yes, it´s been a month, but I don´t need to add any more days. Sayid and Desmond meet him twelve days after the day that the freighter arrives near the island and Naomi parachutes.

Here´s the timeline:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline: December_2004
(I can´t give the direct link because of the :, remove the space behind the : for the link).

Day 67 (27.11.04) - Michael and Walt leave in the Others' boat.
Day 69 to Day 74 - Most of Michael´s flashback
Day 75 to Day 80 - Michael travels to Fiji and joins on the freighter as a deckhand.
Day 86 (16.12.04) - Desmond's group hear a helicopter crash into the ocean and see a parachutist descend into the jungle. And that´s the day, Michael also arrived near the island.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:46 / 30.03.08
alright.

man, i had forgotten the first helicopter crashed. hey didn't show it in Michael's flashback.

speaking of crashes, now the Others claim the fake Oceanic 815 was Widmore's doing. who's to trust?
 
 
Spaniel
18:06 / 30.03.08
I'm still think it's a Widmore fake-out, but that's mainly because I'm keen on the idea. The tricky issue with it being someone else's work is that it would have to involve another body with equivalent power, and you have to wonder whether there's much room in Lost for another big player. Of course, we've been pondering Dharma's whereabouts in this very thread...
 
 
Spaniel
18:12 / 30.03.08
The way I see it Mike's problems began the day he crashed on the Island, and escalated from there. If anything, the fact that none of the other Losties are feeling similarly rings false, although I tend to let that sort of thing go as psychological realism Lost ain't. The show's truthful enough for me not to notice the cracks most of the time.
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:02 / 13.04.08
A tiny morsel from the ABC website to hold us over until the 2nd half of the season starts.


This is for the possible spin-off where Ben travels through time and solves mysteries.
 
 
Mug Chum
17:52 / 13.04.08
Cock's flux capacitor?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:20 / 24.04.08
annnd it's back tonight.

in this USA today article, the producers comment on readers' theories. check out the last one.

they could be joking, also.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:13 / 25.04.08
Good one last night, I thought.

Although... now we have yet another mystery: Ben's Secret Closet of Ancient Island Mystery.

Some insane smoke monster stuff. Is the smoke monster some sort of Island "god"... I have no idea where I'm going with this, but... that underground chamber.... hmm.... Back in the first season the smoke did come from and tried to drag people into a hole in the ground.

And Ben was, um, er, time-traveling, correct? Which leads me to.... WTF is that Ben There, Done That ABC image, anyway?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:22 / 26.04.08
bad photoshop?

alright, a cool new comeback ep., very tense. i liked it a lot more than the previous one. Ben has quite grown into the show's lead by now, eh? i enjoyed the smoke monster bit this time. go, smokey.

and yeah, Ben was time-travelling in the flash-forward, i have no doubts - when\where from is the question. he even asks the Tunisian [or was that Iraqui] hotel clerk which year that was. they're not hiding anymore. and flash-forwards are starting to get tied together.

BTW, Ben's alias for checking in... "Moriarty", nice one. love his SciFi closet, a secret passage inside a secret passage. i'd have enjoyed this show even more if i was a kid these days.

were those the first signs of Jack's painkiller addiction? he seemed really sick there. i wonder how many times Lockies had to shoot that scene in the forest without cracking up at Sawyer's "if you touch any of his curly hair" line...

the ending left me a bit cold, though. going after Widmore eye-for-an-eye style is all of a sudden more important than "owning" the Island, after all we see Ben sacrificing to keep it?

also: does Ben think he can't revert what the mercenaries did or was that time being fixed by Fate anyway? why Widmore didn not order his goons to ambush Ben in the hotel lobby... does he still have no clue how to get to the island?

science bonus: Does the Earth's magnetic field cause suicides?
 
 
Dead Megatron
01:30 / 26.04.08
Hector beat me to almost everything I wanted to say (even the bit about the Moriarty alias), except one thing:

Now it seems like the island can manifest itself in different times and different places at (someone's?) will, so trying to establish a direct time differential may be a waste of time.

Or, alternatively the island may actually be a giant turtle that swims around the Globe. Possibly at speeds faster than light.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:53 / 26.04.08
i suppose it's the case of Ben having got a nice grip of a time travel device, possibly in the still unseen Orchid Station ["the temple"?].

come to think of it, Ben pops up in Tunisia, same country Charlotte had found the polar bear remains...

and check out the new Dharma logo Ben's coat:




which reminded me of:

  
 
NewMyth
06:08 / 26.04.08
Another excellent episode. Ever since the producers set an end date for the series, it is has become much more focused. Although that's relative in the land of Lost.

But with the recent more action oriented shows -- the James Bond villian Ben as someone said -- I find that as things get more literal, it's not as interesting. We have two factions fighting over this mysterious island. And now the once-cool smoke creature is apparently controlled by Ben. But this does explain why it seemed to keep the Losties from venturing past a certain point -- early on someone referred to it as a "security device" -- and why it hasn't been seen for a season or so. But what happened to Locke gazing on it in wonder? And Echo seeing images from his past?

Maybe it's a good thing that we are becoming more involved with the fate of the Losties via the flash forwards -- but it kind of lessens the island's mystery.

I suspect Dharma/Hanso will show up as a deus ex machina. All that said, it's still a fun and unique show. Oh, yes.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:38 / 28.04.08
Hmm... time travel.

I found the link to this theory on a non-Lost site and it's... fairly involved but quite compelling. Lots of conjecture but the basic gist of it seems to make sense of a lot of the odd unaccounted-for bits and bobs.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
12:26 / 02.05.08
For me, that was one of the best episodes of Lost I've ever seen - had me on the edge of my seat for the entire 42 minutes or so...

I've finally given in and admitted that Ben is officially my favourite character on the show. The CLB said all along that the Others were "the good guys"... and Sayid's reaction upon seeing him wasn't to kill him, or to beat the shit out of him, or even a world-weary "what do you want, I can't trust a word you say, get the hell out of here" - all reactions he would have had had this meeting occurred right now on the island. In fact, he takes a lot of what Ben says on face value... This tends to suggest to me that events leading up to this flashforward have changed (at least) Sayid's opinion of Ben... maybe his motivations, maybe his reasons for past actions...

Loved Sawyer's reaction to Hurley's cooption by Johnjamin Linocke - having seen them get closer in the background in a bullying big brother kind of way, it was lovely to have that brought out with the threat to kill Locke at the end "if you harm one curly hair on his head".

Classic Ben moments in this : the sudden takedown of the mujahideen reminding us what a vicious little snake he can be ; the casual reasserting of his place, having been transported thousands of miles to a strange location and possible months into the future, he is instantly back on track the second he hits the nearest city ; the classic Ben smile as he walks away, having manipulated Sayid yet again ; the 'counter-proposal' he makes to Keamy (for some reason I had a brainfart and guessed what his plan was gonna be at that moment, El Directo didn't... I think I'd have preferred not to, as I thought it was kinda awesome) ; his reaction to Alex's murder ("they changed the rules...") ; and I personally loved the confrontation with Widmore in his bedroom. This confrontation also made it clear that they've met before, which is interesting... since Ben and the Hostiles (descendants of survivors of the Black Rock?) took over Dharma's operations on the island to keep the island safe, and since Widmore says to Ben "everything you have you took from me", it's reasonable to theorise that Widmore owned or ran, or had a stake in owning or running, the Dharma Initiative.

I liked the Dharma logo on Ben's jacket too... another station... hmmm...

This season has been the best yet.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:23 / 02.05.08
Just seen the 10th episode. Not bad, but not as good as the previous ones. Felt a lot like a filler. Minor tidbits of information, tho, that will certainly be relevant further on, and some explanations on why Jack was all crazy, depressed, and alone in the first flash-forward, in last season's finale.

Some new questions:

Can, as Hurley proposes, the Oceanic Six be all dead, in a twist of the twist of the Dungeons & Dragons theory that they are all dead and in hell and/or heaven? Except in this case the island is the real world and the rest of the world is the afterlife.

Does everybody who dies in the island, or whose body end up in the island, become agents/messengers of the island? And, if so, is the island God? Is the Jacob in the Hut Metatron? Is the smoke monster the angel of death? Why are all Science Fiction series on TV now going all christian-methaporical now?
 
 
Triplets
20:54 / 02.05.08
What do you mean now? They always have been. And everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.
 
 
Dead Megatron
21:29 / 02.05.08
Yeah, but they have been particularly blatant about it lately.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:53 / 09.05.08
GGE, it can be all that, and the theory linked above [did i mention that before? if not, should have] pretty much states that they *are* dead in another timeline, and had been living a alternate timeline of sorts [in a Donnie Darko fashion].

and if Ben is a time traveller from the future it's easier to see how he has a lot of information on virtually everybody. despite all my friends saying "Jack's eps are the dullest" i kind of liked how it bridged Hurley's flashforward and bearded Jack's.

and obviously threw some more questions: why did Jack got sick? why did Ben? is the Island vibrating out of the time-bubble after Des switched the key? what was that Kate said she had to do for Sawyer - could she be another Ben agent? that'd be cool.
 
 
Dead Megatron
10:31 / 09.05.08
I got the impression she could be doing some post-mortem attonment on Sawyer's behalf. Calling former victims and whatnot.
 
 
Dead Megatron
12:17 / 09.05.08
But, then again, I should have learned not to apply Occam's Razor to this show like that.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:58 / 09.05.08
SPOILERSSSS








man... i knew this would be good. there was a lot going on, as we're closer to the end of the season.

and a lot to like: young giftedLocke recruited by Richard Alpert [wtf was that], Michael and the Long Haired boat boys, dead doctor timeloop completed, 2nd Widmore Protocol, Lapidus helping the beach folks, Abbadon moving the pieces, all the spook encounters - and what about Claire? - and "we have to move the Island".

move to where, and to when? so was Des really saving the world?
 
 
Tsuga
10:39 / 10.05.08
I'm guessing moving the island is somehow using it's properties to make it disappear again. I enjoyed that episode, especially because I don't even remember anyone pulling a gun, portentously cocking it and bringing it up, two-handed, to lead them on. That and it was very propelling and interesting. Something I don't understand is why did the doctor's body appear before he was killed? I mean, I know there's a lot of time weirdness, but has anything like that happened yet?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
14:55 / 10.05.08
remember the Faraday rocket experiment eary in the season? the boat crew said it reached the mark BEFORE those in the island could see it.

same thing with the helicopter trip carrying Sayid, Des and Naomi's body arriving earlier for those in the boat than to those at the beach.

my guess is there is some kind of time bubble around the island that causes those fluctuations at the edges. or the island's time is getting slowly realligned with outside world's time [hence it being found by Widmore].

this may be happening since Des turned the key at the end of season 2 and broke the mecanism that cloaked the island in a pocket-time\dimension. this is what Locke will have to fix in the next episode.

these must be what caused the time-displacement 'desease' which killed Russeau's crew, the boat crew that adventured too near and almost took Des before he found his 'constant'.

Faraday discovered there's one coordinate [3-0-5] that manages to let people in and out without being affected. Cap. Gault gave those to Sayid get back by himself in this week's episode. probably the same coordinate that Ben gave Michael when he took off with Walt.
 
  

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