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Lost - Season 4 (US)

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
18:06 / 10.03.08
Which would, ironically, be NOT WORTH MY TIME!

Having said which, isn't Zoe Bell enjoying wedded bliss with Fatboy?
 
 
Spaniel
20:27 / 10.03.08
Perhaps the only thing I didn't like about the last episode was Ben's "my people could storm this place at any time" line.

Now, there's two ways or reading that: he's bluffing to put the frighteners on Locke and shake his sense of certainty, or he's telling the truth. It's the latter possibility that has me worried, 'cause if it's true then it rather undermines the Losties' victory over the Other's last season, and that, as far as I'm concerned, would be bad. It would force me to question the victory's verismilitude (afterall if beating the Losties is so easy then why weren't they crushed), and thereby damage the show's credibility. It would also serve to reelevate the Others to lofty superhuman status, which, you know, would be a bit boring. Mysterious and tough I'm happy with. Invincible? Not so much.

I suppose it could be rationalised plot wise. Locke's group is likely to be smaller in number, and perhaps the Other's still have access to a whole bunch of guns - but I think the creators need to be careful when playing in these waters, at the very least they run the risk of weakening a very cool, and very cathartic scene.

Really keen to know what the Other's have been up to, however.
 
 
Spaniel
20:39 / 10.03.08
More of me.

In other thoughts: Keith your speculation about further hidden doodz got me to thinking more about the people behind Ben. I mean, whether they're the boss of him or not, there has to be an organisation - very likely called Dharma - dropping in all those supplies. I'm Finding myself going back to those old thoughts about Ben having negotiated a truce with them after he established himself as the only game on the Island.

And then there's the group within the group - the Hostiles...
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:47 / 10.03.08
best line of the episode: "It's very stressful being an Other"
 
 
Seth
21:56 / 10.03.08
I liked, "I taped over the game."
 
 
JOY NO WRY
08:07 / 11.03.08
there has to be an organisation - very likely called Dharma - dropping in all those supplies

But not necessarily for anybody on the island at the moment. I mean the time-dissonance hasn't been conclusively linked to the hatch explosion; maybe those supplies were dropped from planes a very long time ago.
 
 
Spaniel
08:45 / 11.03.08
True, the Hatch imposion hasn't been linked conclusively to the time dissonance, but I'm happy to assume it's reposnsible for now. No need to multiply entities, and all that.

Also, Ben's clearly demonstrated off-Island reach before now. That, tied to the food drops, suggests that the most simple explanation is that Ben has some kind of relationship with an organisation very likely called Dharma.

Interestingly if Ben taped over the Red Sox game he must have done so after the Hatch implosion, so the problems with communications which (I think) he mentioned last season might well be non-existant.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:33 / 12.03.08
well, it was more of a filler, but i also second the points Boboss made; there were A LOT of infos this time, so we can't say things aren't moving along. and THE CONSTANT would be a hard act to follow anyway.

the point of the action in the present was to neutralize one of Ben's weapons so the Freighters can take over the Island - it clearly felt like an assigned mission to Charlotte and Faraday, one Charlote would kill to see it done, much to Faraday's surprise. I wonder which side will Faraday be on by the end of the season.

it was cool seeing Ben re-reading VALIS, as Locke told him to in a earlier ep. ["maybe you'll see something you haven't before"]. and Ben asking if the cooked rabbit had any number on it. hehe, your meal might have travelled in time, sir.

yeah, i also think the freighter mole is Michael - something that'd be much more shocking to Locke than to us by this point, but anyway.

not a big surprise about Widmore being the freighter's sponsor. we know Abbadon the lawyer recruited Naomi, the Fantastic Four helicopter team and was after information from Hurley in the flashforward. does this mean Widmore eventually will lose the battle and won't be able to [completely] take the Island for him, as Juliet predicted here? and who is Widmore tied to? is he Dharma or independent?

also: i'm starting to think the bastard sponsored the boat race to find the Island somehow; the fact that it was poor Desmond who found it is yet to be set as pure irony or something programmed to happen.

Harper the psychologist mentioned Juliet being "just like her"... a previous love interest of Ben or his dead mother? this was interesting to me as it showed at least some of the Others know a lot about Ben [or more than is expected from such a dreaded leader], and might even control him - more about this a couple of paragraphs below.

what about her appearance for Juliet in the forest at the beginning: is Harper dead and that was another in a series of spirits coming back at certain spots to freak people out? well, she did gave a message from Ben so how the hell did he communicate with the psychologist? did she disappear in a underground tunnel or is she a manifestation of the Smoke Monster? the voices lead us to believe the latter, but I don't know. is Ben really not in touch with the Others and what is his real role here?

so this leads me to theory time: we know that the Losties were led to Oceanic 815 by a series of "coincidences" that seem more or less guided either by a writer team playing the Destiny card for cheese value or some organization pulling the strings in the story's backstage. why would it be important that THIS particular group reached the Island, and that their arrival was covered up?

what Ben said about the Island properties attracting too much attention from the outside world and the predators that would try to exploit it is only "what everybody wants". but there are two sides after it: Dharma [or its remaining operatives, led by Hanso] and its associates representing the corporate side and the crazy hippies represented by... The Black Rock survivors. yeah, i know.

the regained interest in the wrecked ship and ruminations on Jacob led me to this [and if i'm talking shit please let me know]. The Black Rock got stranded in the Island and there was a mutiny: part of crew [Magnus Hanso and Co.] wanted to exploit it; part [subordinates, slaves] wanted to just be left alone there.

eventually both groups managed to leave and Hanso's offspring went to build Dharma while the other survivors gave birth to the Losties' parents. Hanso's got back as Dharma and Black Rockers tried to take the place for them through Ben's mass killing of Dharma operatives.

remember parenthood being important in the flashbacks? everybody has daddy issues, some are destined to be leaders, rivalry will spring all the time etc. what if the Losties had been led to go on board of Oceanic 815 to help fight for this Island and prevent Hanso from getting it back to Dharma?

enters Ben, the wild card they could rely on. either he was more than just "son of workman Linus" [as in "Black Rock descendant"] or he was the one the Others saw as an agent of change they could guide through Jacob. Richard Alpert not ageing and sporting a long hair when Ben was young? he could be a 19th Century sailor preserved by the Island's powers.

Jacob? the ship officer who led the mutiny and somehow got stranded in time, stuck as a ghost forever. I know, it sounds too much like PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, but i'd totally buy that.

crazy theory time ends.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:34 / 12.03.08
my, that was a long post; sorry about that.
 
 
Spaniel
08:49 / 12.03.08
Interesting thoughts. A lot of that stuff has passed through my mind, also. Particularly the idea that the Hostiles are the descended from, or actually are, Black Rock people; and the notion that Widmore's boat race had a dimension that none of the contestants could have known about. In fact I'd suggest the latter is almost a dead cert.

On whether Harper's dead or not, that was the question that led me to speculate about the Others being able to psychically project. I was trying to unpick what was going on from the variety of options available to us: is she dead, is she a manifestation of Jacob, was she really there and just used her jungle-fu to vanish, what!1? Be really interested to know the answer to that particular poser.

Oh yeah, and I really like the way you framed what Charlotte and Dan were up to. The words "neutralize" and "weapons" draws attention to the fact that what they've done is almost military in character - like the first salvo in a war. And that's just how this last episode felt to me, like the first stage of an important conflict - that's probably why I liked it so much.
 
 
e-n
14:10 / 12.03.08
On Boboss's earlier post:

"4. That not only is Charles Widmore behind the Freighter Force, he is also very likely a complete wanker. Of course we'd all suspected as much, but to show footage of him beating a man to death places him firmly in the baddie camp."

Wankerdom aside, seeing as Ben is constantly shown to be a nasty manipulator, and Lost's writers like to wrong foot the viewer could Widdy's agression have been justified somehow (guy threatened Penny perhaps? ), and Ben didn't share that info?

I just can't believe Jim from Neighbours could be such a cad!

Plus is anyone else seeing Faraday as the "main" character these days?
 
 
Spaniel
14:39 / 12.03.08
Yeah, it did occur to me that Widmore might be a little more complex than he's thus far been presented, and/or that Ben might be spinning things a little. Upon reflection, I think it's very probable that there's more to Charlie than we've seen because Lost doesn't like to do one dimensional characters.

Mind you, that's far from saying that Widmore is necessarily going to be a likeable good guy, once we get a better look at him. Ben's becoming increasingly three-dimensional, but I think it's farly unlikely that I'll ever approve of a guy who murdered an entire community.

Also, I actively want to see evil Robinson. I mean, Paul's tendancies had to come from somewhere.


*God I use qualifiers a lot when I talk about Lost
 
 
Seth
15:10 / 12.03.08
Plus is anyone else seeing Faraday as the "main" character these days?

I don't think of him as being the main character so much as I believe him to be the first truly trustworthy source of quality exposition on many of the mysterious aspects of the island. They've been canny in making him a fairly stereotypical academic (not necessarily a good teacher or communicator, lost in their own field of academia, taking relatively obscure theories as self-evident) as well as giving him worries about how much he is actually allowed to disclose in order to be able to continually drip feed aspects of the mythos, but we can be fairly sure that what he says is ultimately true. Whether the writers will toy with this expectation remains to be seen.
 
 
Spaniel
15:16 / 12.03.08
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. That and the impression that he's basically a good guy - all soft and well meaning.

Course, they could be fucking with us.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:29 / 12.03.08
ZOMG FARADAY IS EVIL PUPPETMASTERZ.

But, seriously, folks, I hadn't thought about it, but you are right, he's the first source of information that doesn't seem to be filtered through his own personal agenda. He's solely interested in the academic aspects of the island. Likely, this is because his brain is fucked due to his radiation exposure and he thinks the island will heal him, like Ol' Bald Head Crazy Guy From Millennium, Earth 2, X-Files, and Many More Genre Television Shows With Conspiracies and Mysteries...

Ahem. Sorry.

Faraday's interest in the island is a completely benign personal one. That makes him much more reliable than any other person currently on the island.
 
 
e-n
16:06 / 12.03.08

Paul Robinson is an evil little shit


I dunno though. I just find Farday tremendouly likeable.
(not like Charlotte, where HAVE I seen her before)
HE'll probably turn out to be an evil little shit too though.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:29 / 12.03.08
Btw, since hector mentioned it, when is the Smoke Monster going to make an appearance this season? (or has it already and I totally spaced it?). I hope it comes before the hiatus, and not when yet another Lost actor gets busted for DOI in Hawaii or start having relationship problems with the rest of the crew and the producers neeed to kill him/her off. IN FACT, if this freaking show ends without someone "slaying" that damn thing (I still wish it was a dinosaur), I'll be very disappointed. Ben-style disappoint, be warned.

And when is Paulo and Nikki raising from the dead?????????
 
 
Mug Chum
18:48 / 12.03.08
I'm sure we're (almost) all hoping they never will. We need more "Constant" and Daniels "professor Devendra Banhart" Faradays, not more fillers.

Really, I just watched Constant (yeah, I'm late). I'm speechless.
 
 
Spaniel
19:45 / 12.03.08
Zip, mate, I gotta say, if you think this season has been full-o-filler I strongly suggest you stop watching the show, as it will never, ever, ever be what you're after.

Outside of season finales, and the last few episodes of Season 6, I consider Season 4 to be about as good as Lost is likely to get.
 
 
Spaniel
19:45 / 12.03.08
(Sorry if that's not what you were saying)
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:47 / 12.03.08
Season 6? Surely you mean Season 3?
 
 
Mug Chum
20:04 / 12.03.08
No, Boboss. I'm actually finding the season quite nice so far (only saw until The Constant and still haven't watched ep4) in ways that Lost grabbed me with on the 1st season.

I just refered to the wish of having Paulo-Nikki thing back (unless I missunderstood -- for not having watched the most recent episodes -- and they're actually coming back to fulfill a useful role in the series in a fun season4 way).
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:19 / 12.03.08
I was being ironic with the Paulo-Nikki return comment, in case it was not clear (clearly it wasn't). I just regret that the Brazilian actor playing Paulo (300's Xerxes, Rodrigo Santoro) was wasted in the show.

That said, I would not be surprised if any one who died during the show returns in ghost form.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:42 / 12.03.08
Oh, sorry about that. I just find that people usually have very different tastes and points of interests on things that hooks them about Lost, so I actually considered it as a no-irony wish...
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:03 / 12.03.08
Paulo and Nikki were supposed to have been moles sent by Ben or by Widmore, but the producers gave up on the idea - that's why the couple was finished off [in a creative way, at least].

at least that's what Matthew Fox said in an interview for EW some months ago. basically they didn't know what to do with those characters by that point and had to clear the path.

it'd be interesting to see other sides of Faraday. Jeremy Davis was really seedy as the "hippie" soldier in Herzog's RESCUE DAWN.
 
 
Spaniel
08:55 / 13.03.08
Sorry, Zip. My bad.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:55 / 13.03.08
anybody seen the JJ Abrams TED talk? it's about the Importance of Mistery for Imagination.

a bit of a Hollwywood producer bullshittery, a bit of true artistic authoral geniality. interesting 20 minutes, no new clues on LOST.

just thought you might enjoy it.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:19 / 14.03.08
Oh man, using the flash forward trick to mess with us. Gonna be an interesting season!

Pretty good episode... not sure what I think of the Captain. I'm curious if his name is an allusion to Atlas Shrugged or not.

And... is that really all we get of Zoe Bell?

Not a whole to say this time, but I'm extremely curious about next week.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
19:47 / 14.03.08
a bland ep. last week's was better. two good bits: Regina's fate [we hardly knew her], kevin johnson finally appearing and that guy's tomb at the end.

what was this btw, a plant, time travel, is the guy alive back in the island or did he die just after leaving it? it was a split flashback\flashforward, right? a bit tiresome.

more freighter action next week, hopefully.
 
 
Mistoffelees
21:36 / 14.03.08
what was this btw, a plant, time travel, is the guy alive back in the island or did he die just after leaving it? it was a split flashback\flashforward, right? a bit tiresome.

His part was in the past, her part was in the future. So she, along with Hurley, Aaron, Kate, Sayid and Jack is one of, and the last to be revealed Oceanic Six.

When Hurley stood in the door, I at first thought, she had divorced her husband and had hooked up with our favourite multimillionaire.

I´m also glad, there is one episode left before the break. This and the episode last week had no excitement for me. Most everyone seemed to be quite comfortable. Shake up all that high life of eating cereal at the beach. A surprise attack by the hidden others, Ben and smokey doing a team up, or Locke running amok would be a nice cliffhanger.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:04 / 14.03.08
His part was in the past, her part was in the future.

i got that, and also thought Hurley might have married her, hehe.

hers must have been one of the "early future" flashforwards [beardless-jack]. is there another oceanic to be revealed or not?

i want to see how Michael got to be Kevin in the ep. maybe he got to the mainland first to infiltrate the freighter's crew. or not.

but the previews are saying someone dies next week, so there will be some tension, at least.
 
 
Tsuga
01:46 / 15.03.08
1.Who is Zoe Bell? Why are people caring particularly?
A search tells me that she is a stunt person? Is it her one role in Grindhouse (I've not seen it) that enamors people? Was that her doing the chain stunt?

2. it was a split flashback\flashforward, right? a bit tiresome.

I did think that part was kind of lame. "The delivery was hard on me... The doctor said I was calling out for you" Overall, though, I didn't think it was too bad. So, yes, there was Michael on the ship, who wrote in a child-like scrawl "DO NOT TRUST THE CAPTAIN". I'm surprised the R wasn't backwards or something. Again we are left to wonder which side is the bad side, or are they both kind of vaguely evil(which is what I'm leaning towards, though I think ultimately Ben's side will somehow end up having more legitimacy, not that it will excuse the reprehensible actions). There is already a mistrust of Michael, and Ben/Others, and the shippies, and Widmore, and the tail sectors... oh, wait. They're all dead. Well, we don't know who to trust still, do we?
But they're revealing the "six" one at a time, so who's the last one?

3.but the previews are saying someone dies next week, so there will be some tension, at least.
I don't know if you noticed, but somebody died this week.

4. I like the way Sun was pleading with Jin and said "it was a long time ago". Maybe that time-warp shit is operating in some way I don't understand, but isn't she only a couple of months pregnant, and wasn't even sure that it was his?

5. What about the pipe-banging? And the "heightened case of cabin fever"?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:02 / 15.03.08
I don't know if you noticed, but somebody died this week.

the person whose we saw happening had been nothing more than an occasional voice for us, one we've just barely met in person. and the person we cared for who dies in the future... we didn't see his death.

they're promising a death of someone we know. my money's on Miles the medium, finished by colonel Ben at Locke's House with a stolen pistol.



What about the pipe-banging? And the "heightened case of cabin fever"?

this cabin fever thing might be other shippies' getting time-displaced to the far future and seeing their own deaths; the chain scene and specially the room with the blood trail [suicide by gunshot?] were creepy.
 
 
Triplets
02:06 / 15.03.08
Hi all. Having not watched Lost since the end of season 2 (when the hatch blew, yeah?) I was wondering: in the S2/S3 trailers (can't remember) we saw Locke in a brief shot going all commando in the jungle. Did this ever come to pass or were the trailemakers messing with us or, indeed, me?
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:49 / 15.03.08
Locke is running around crazy through the jungle occasionally. I don´t remember what that brief shot might refer to, though, Triplets. Do you have a link to that trailer?


And I screencapped that tombstone. It says, Jin died on the plane crash (22. Sep. 2004). Since he obviously didn´t, he might still be alive and maybe be still on the island at the time of that flashforward.

 
  

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