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Lost - Season 4 (US)

 
  

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Mistoffelees
19:21 / 13.02.08
I thought the underwater plane scenes were faked by the Dharma Initiative (or someone else) to stop people from further looking for the plane or accidentally finding the island. That there is actually a plane with the corpse doubles from our island survivors is too much even for LOST standards for me.
 
 
Spaniel
10:35 / 14.02.08
Well we know there's almost certainly something fraudulent about that plane - surely that was the point Lapidus's flashback was making.
 
 
Spaniel
11:21 / 14.02.08
I'm suggesting that devoting an entire flashback scene to the idea that there's something fishy about that crash site adds up to more than a "hint". Of course it could be a red herring, but I'd consider that cheating, so I hope not.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:15 / 15.02.08
Love. Lost.

Last night's episode was pretty stellar. They've fed the fan desire to make Saayid an even bigger badass than before. I guessed who he is working for before the end, but who was he after?

The biggest mystery that we are going to have is how the flashforwards match up chronologically. Is Saayid's adventure before or after Jack's Beard Phase? I ask because of the coffin theories.

This season is going to have the curious effect of making the non-island stuff much more interesting, which is the complete opposite as the previous 3 years.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:04 / 15.02.08
i guess only the fast-forward in S3's finale was more advanced in the Future than these in S4.

maybe the last season will start when Jack's Pack arrive back in the Island and we'll be only shown that future\present timeline. then by the end of S5 we'll get nearer bearded Jack timeline again. i dunno.

in any case, cool new ep. more than stories that jump into the future, i loved Sayid's hitman hair treatment, hehe. one minor glitch, or is it just me: Faraday looked much more confident and daring when found by Jack and Kate. now he's all stuttering around. maybe to show how unstable he is.

would the Economist be Hanzo? Whitmore? New Guy in charge of Dharma? the fact that he's "old fashioned" and prefers pagers to mobiles had me thinking about someone who's trapped in the past...

what about the test rocket arriving in the Island later than the freiter's count? that was way cool.

is the Island in a spot in the Future, or does the space-time rift make the trip longer? OR, is time in the Island slower than in the rest of the planet? that would explain why Walt's older [if he got out] but won't explain rapid healing.

if that's so i wonder if when Jack's Pack gets back he'll only find Locke's Lot not aged much.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:18 / 15.02.08
one more thing, theory-time:

Dharma had found the Island [nevermind if in a pocket dimension or in the Past] and got in through a natural space-time door, then tried to controll it.

Desmond was a doorman,a bouncer, and had been controlling the opening [or shutting] of this door\portal that got opened [or shut] with the accumulation of eletromagnetic energy from the Island itself.

when Highlander guy died and he got late to push the button, the door stayed opened for too long and Oceanic 815 got it. and after Locke [or was it Des] let the energy go, the door is now open for good, so the Freighter Four managed to get in - and Faraday warns Lapipus the pilot: be sure to go back from the same path you came in.

maybe the chopper could end up in a different spot in space-time like the polar bear in Tunisia.
 
 
buttergun
14:29 / 15.02.08
I thought it was a fantastic episode. Besides the fast one the producers have pulled on us -- instead of answering the lingering "island" questions (the madness mentioned by Rousseau, the black smoke, the...well, EVERYTHING), they've just jumped into the "future" and given us a whole new batch of conundrums to puzzle over (who's after the Oceanic 6? What happened to the others on the island? Who's Sayid/Ben after?) -- the show has picked up some steam that was seriously lacking in the last two seasons.

I love how Sayid's story was like your average Hong Kong actioner -- Sayid the slicked-back, globetrotting assassin. All he needed were two 9mms in his fists and a trenchcoat. I have to say, I figured early in the episode that Ben would be his employer, in the future -- you couldn't help but notice the awe with which Sayid checked out all of those passports in Ben's hidden room in the island portion of the story. It was like you could just see the respect forming in Sayid's eyes.

Now we have these extra questions...who is Ben having Sayid murder? My guess is it's the people who that black lawyer "Abbadon" works for -- ie, the guy who showed up in Hurley's flash forward and the dead helicopter girl's flashback. But who does Abbadon work for? Could it be Dharma...ie the real Dharma, the people young Ben gassed to death (as seen in Ben's flashback last season)? Could it be they're looking for vengeance -- hence their hunting down Ben specifically? If that's the case, then that means the helicopter/ship people are also involved with Abbadon...though of course he's in the "future," not necessarily in the "past" of the island portions of the story. The mind boggles.

Also a big question is who Sayid's German target/lover was working for. Notice the reliance on the ancient pager. I'm sure this is a clue of some sort. Incidentally, Sayid stories are always my favorites, as he's still my favorite character on the show, and this one was the best yet.

I really like the new character Faraday. It's great to FINALLY have someone on the island who can figure out what the hell is going on. In two episodes he's yielded more data about the weird aspects of the island than any other character has managed since the show's inception. I wonder what he'd make of the black smoke/monster? When he had the ship launch the marker and it never arrived, my first though (and likely the first thought of other viewers) was that the island is in another dimension. This would make sense, as the marker landed in the ship's reality, but didn't land in the island's reality. This would also explain the wreckage of the Oceanic airliner in the "normal" reality -- meaning in that reality the passengers actually died, but somehow our characters slipped into this alternate pocket of reality...sort of a quantum physics thing. But then the damn marker landed after all, pretty much ruining my theory. So instead we're dealing with some sort of time lag? Or could this be a minor instance of a larger time disturbance which affects the island?

I also like how Locke has gone power mad. Sawyer's "Kurtz" reference (a la Apocalypse Now) the other week was spot-on. I'm also glad we've seen the apparent send-off of the otherwise time-wasting Jack-Kate-Sawyer triangle. Jack sending Kate off, telling her Sawyer wouldn't let her get hurt, seemed to me a none-to-subtle "go be with him, he's better for you" message from Jack to Kate.

Speaking of the women in Jack's life, I'm really hoping they start to focus more on former Dharma-girl Juliet, who was my favorite new character last year -- I still say she's gotten the best line in the show's history (her "I had that day off," to Hurley, when Hurley told her he didn't see Juliet with the Others when the Others kidnapped Jack et al). This season she's gotten maybe a handful of lines.

Anyway, this season has been great so far.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:06 / 15.02.08
Just read a great tidbit:

Else's employer pages her 30 minutes later than she was expecting. Same differential that Faraday noted with the payload arrival...
 
 
the credible hulk
17:20 / 15.02.08
is the Island in a spot in the Future, or does the space-time rift make the trip longer? OR, is time in the Island slower than in the rest of the planet? that would explain why Walt's older [if he got out] but won't explain rapid healing.

It would also explain why light moves differently on the island. Maybe the speed of light is slightly slower there?



Also, I would at this point suspect that it's Ben in the coffin.
 
 
Spaniel
20:14 / 15.02.08
Lots of things!

Anyone notice that a number of questions have been answered in rapid succession this season? Some (like who Sayid is working for) have even been answered in the very same epsiode they were posed. Unfuckingheard of.

Something we now know for sure: Sayid is killing people who he believes are a threat to his friends. I humbly suggest that by friends Ben means people on the Island, and not the rest of the Oceanic 6.

Ben is always about the Island.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
23:06 / 15.02.08
Keith, a hadn't noticed that - good one!

but... the delay hasn't affected communications, so far. Jack, Naomi and Faraday have contacted the ship and the crew answered instantly. the rocket test also proved that.

UNLESS, let's stretch that and say Else's boss is in the Island [Locke? Dharma searching for Locke?], how was this delay set up? could future Locke have got The Loooking Glass Station repaired only up to the point where it doesn't block communications, but rather create a delay jam of sorts?

alright, speculations ahoy. but still fun.
 
 
NewMyth
01:23 / 16.02.08
A question: Do you guys remember when they first mentioned that the wreckage of Flight 815 had been found underwater? Last season, before the recent episode. Wasn't it back when Jack was at the Other's compound, and Ben showed him some TV footage, and said, "No one is looking for you." And we were debating here whether the Hanson/Dharma people could set up such an elaborate hoax, etc.
 
 
buttergun
03:45 / 16.02.08
Yes, goes hand in hand with that voice Boone heard on the radio in Season 1, which said, "There were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815!"

It's things like that which make me hope some of this stuff has been planned out from the beginning...!
 
 
Spaniel
17:34 / 16.02.08
While we're speculating...

The pet theory in our house is that the man behind the Freighter Force is Charles Widmore. Would make sense of the following tangle of scenes/elements: a) the scene when Penny explains that it isn't her boat, b)Naomi carrying around that particular photograph, c) of Lapidus's strained expression when grilled by Desmond. Also, you know, money, resources, global reach, makes use of his as yet unfulfilled potential. I'm thinking that Penny's search for Desmond is actually all about her tapping into her father's search for the Island.
 
 
Spaniel
18:07 / 16.02.08
On speculating. I think that it is possible to speculate with some success. For example a lot of us saw the shock ending coming last episode. Speaking personally a number of our (Bobosso and I's) speculative ramblings have born fruit over the last few years. Last Season we found ourselves seriously considering the possibility that Season 4 would be set on the mainland with the characters trying to get back to the Island (this was a month or so before the finale) - our rationale was simply that the show needed a dose of novelty after 3 years of Island action and that that would be an interesting way of getting it. I also remember musing about the Losties being on the run from the Freighter Force. Neither of these things turned out exactly how I imagined but both have come to pass in one way or another.

Of course loads of shit I've blathered on about has failed to materialize*, but to argue that it's not possible to have an idea of where the show will head is clearly nonsense. In fact I'm of the opinion that the show will get (slightly) easier to predict from here on in, as we head into the endgame and more heavily mapped (by the creators) territory.

The sci-fi component is always gonna be really really tricky, though. The most I'm happy to say on that subject is that Dharma conducted some weird-arse experiments on the Island and we're probably reaping some of the rewards.

In other news, where are the Others?
 
 
Mug Chum
19:42 / 16.02.08
"Lost is all about hos"

I'm having trouble wanting to keep up this season. I've been catching them, but only little things like Faraday and Charlotte (kick-ass Planetary) have been pulling me in.

Ben's routine has been dreadfully boring (I can't find him menacing, just creepy in a "creepy guy of the office" feel), the "who are they/ what they want" ("I have a spy inside them") is too vague and jumbled to hook me with any interest whatsoever while having a casual go at it. Locke's trick of "is he crazy? Or crazily correct?" is a bit tired by now.

Cpt Daniels is making me curious (that reptilian stoic/rhytimic delivery just kills anywhere), while Hugo is acting finer than ever. And Miles' does get to deliver a new iteration of Sawyer-ish dickishness while Sawyer can have a go at his own soft aspects, having a bit of development and something more fresh (his acting with Hugo on the 1st episode was somewhat touching).

But I think I'll be watching since it'll probably have less time-wasting by the BBC-ian aspect of less episodes. Let's hope it'll be more packed (and no more going nowhere vagueness and having episodes like Paulo's and GF's). And Brian K. Vaughan's potential input does makes me curious.
 
 
NewMyth
02:55 / 17.02.08
In the hour before each new episode, ABC has been airing the previous week's ep. Last week they did what they did for the repeat of the season finale: have these caption things scroll up at the bottom of the screen. Kinda lame at first, but some of the info is cool, and it helps to show that the producers know what they are doing.

One caption on Dan Faraday's flashback said the woman with him is not his wife, but his caretaker. On the photo of Ben next to a PC, the caption said he's been off the island; which we just got with this eps pile of passport/IDs.

As you guys probably know, the plan is two sets of 8 eps each season, total 16 -- though this season I think is gonna be 5 due to strike -- which may have the effect of really keeping things moving. The end date is 2010.

This has obviously focused the writers' plotting, and things are clearly -- in the trademarked convoluted Lost way -- coming together.

And the apparent mirror echo structure of crashing onto island/then being off island, wanting to go back, is rather clever.
 
 
CameronStewart
06:27 / 17.02.08
On the photo of Ben next to a PC, the caption said he's been off the island; which we just got with this eps pile of passport/IDs.

That's not a PC, it's a luggage X-ray machine. Ben's standing at an airport Security gate in the photo.
 
 
Spaniel
16:12 / 17.02.08
Myth, according to the interview with Cuse (discussed upthread), this season will quite possibly be 13 episodes long.

Also, this business about two 8 episode long segments is new to me. Like everyone else I'd heard that each of the 3 seasons will run for 16 episodes, but nothing about about splitting up the seasons into two halves. In fact I've been under the impression that that's exactly the kind of thing Cuse and Lindeloff are trying to avoid if at all possible. So, ummm, sources please.

Not saying you're wrong, just trying to establish the facts.
 
 
Spaniel
16:24 / 17.02.08
Another double post from Boboss.

I don't know how Season 3 is being marketed in the states, but over here the tagline "answers are coming" adorns the top of every single promotional item. I can't help feeling that the statement might have more truth to it than the average marketing bumpf.

Lost needs to persuade people (particularly more casual viewers) that they're not wasting their time by tuning in, and to do so at this stage they might well need to offer the audience more than just the promise of some juicy bones. So I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that, complications of the strike permitting, we'll see one or two big revelations this season. Obviously they'll be big revelations they can afford to let slip at this stage in the game, so they won't be THE big revelations, but they'll be chunky and exciting, nonetheless.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
18:03 / 18.02.08
Weeeellll, it does seem like answers are going to be coming this season out of necessity, given this contact with the outside world, and the focus on post-Oceanic 6 rescue scenes. However, mostly it looks like they are going for an entire paradigm change this season. I'm more excited now than when it was just show about "when and how will they get rescued from this weird island?" Now there seems to be much more of a purpose to the show.
 
 
Dead Megatron
22:07 / 19.02.08
you couldn't help but notice the awe with which Sayid checked out all of those passports in Ben's hidden room in the island portion of the story

The Brazilian passport shown had the freaking country's name misspelled ("República Federativa do Brazil" instead of "República Federativa do Brasil"). My personal distaste for bad counterfeiting aside, I don't reckon Ben to be one to commit such an amateurish mistake.

Anyway, I liked the new characters. I hope much ghost-busting and fringe physics experimentation follows.
 
 
intrepidlytrite
09:42 / 20.02.08
I too am very happy about the appearance of Jeremy Davies. Even though his acting scope is not exactly varied (Faraday is really quite similar to Snow in Solaris) I always enjoy his somewhat geeky demeanor.

Contrary to many others, Lost has never lost me. S4 looks like it's going to be a whole lot of fun.
 
 
Seth
17:30 / 20.02.08
Some thoughts...

So far only three characters have self-applied the term 'Oceanic Six,' right? That's Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Kate hasn't used the term to refer to herself and no one has referred to her as one. I'm assuming with her wanted status she wouldn't want celebrity unless she gets a big ol' pardon... what's the deal on being declared dead in that respect? What if the term is a red herring and there are actually more than six people who make it off the island? Or if there are people claiming to be one of the six who were never on the plane?

Also we can be fairly sure that Sayid's deal with Locke was something other than what we were told, right? Locke had both Miles and Charlotte captive, which left him with apparently nothing to bargain with. Sayid was also present when Desmond got back and told them about Charlie's dying message, so it would seem more likely for him to at least temporarily ally himself with Locke than Jack.

Sayid's having ALL the fun right now.
 
 
Spaniel
18:22 / 20.02.08
I just assumed that Locke and Sayid made a like for like exchange based on mutual respect, but you might be onto something. It is perhaps telling that we didn't see the negotiation.

On the question of the Oceanic 6 [+] [-] tiny spoiler

The rest of 'em: Michael and Walt, I'm telling ya.
 
 
NewMyth
05:04 / 21.02.08
Yes, Boboss, this season will be 13 episodes: the 8 made before the strike and the 5 to come, for a total of 13 this season.

You are correct regarding each season's run to be 16 uninterrupted episodes.

What I was awkwardly trying to say was the writer's have said this season's eighth episode ends with a mini-cliffhanger; which might have become the season finale if the writer's strike hadn't ended. (My source was an interview with Terry O'Quinn in the "TV This Week" section of the Los Angeles Daily News, Jan 27, 2008. By Kate O'Hare for Zap2it.)

And in a brief segment on National Public Radio, one of the producers said the 16 episodes, while planned to run without a break, have a mid-point cliff-hanger built-in; perhaps this was only relevant to this strike season. I'm sorry for implying differently.

Hey, Bob, I liked that +/- embedded tiny spoiler.
And Cameron, re the photo of Ben standing at an airport Security gate; sharper eye than mine.

And wasn't the bit of interaction between Sayid and Miles cool?
 
 
Mistoffelees
06:31 / 21.02.08
What I was awkwardly trying to say was the writer's have said this season's eighth episode ends with a mini-cliffhanger; which might have become the season finale if the writer's strike hadn't ended.

Now that the strike is over, they decided to make the break with the 7th episode:

"After the strike was resolved it was confirmed that Lost would have a 13 episode season which would be split into two, seven of the episodes airing before March 13 and the remaining six airing beginning April 17." link
 
 
Spaniel
08:47 / 21.02.08
Arses. Another season another bloody break. Ah, well, shouldn't have got my hopes up, and, hey, I'm all for people striking if that's what they need to do.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:24 / 21.02.08
It's only a month break... not bad, considering some of the breaks we've had. At least we are getting 5 more episodes this year after all.
 
 
Spaniel
13:33 / 21.02.08
Yeah, a month is better than it has been, and I'm very pleased to be getting another 5 episodes. Any less and, not only would I be a fed up as a fan, I'd start to seriously worry about the future of the show.

Thinking about it, is the break a product of network ratings grabbing shenanigans, or is it to do with the show needing time to get more episodes in the can? If the former then we might not see a hiatus over here. I'm pretty sure Sky - like the bulk of UK TV channels - is none too keen on splitting series in half if it doesn't have to.
 
 
Spaniel
13:37 / 21.02.08
Ah

From the link above

Production of the season is set to resume March 10

I'm thinking the show's going to break no matter where in the world you're watching it from.
 
 
NewMyth
22:55 / 21.02.08
Thinking about it, is the break a product of network ratings grabbing shenanigans, or is it to do with the show needing time to get more episodes in the can?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the time needed to produce the shows. I live in the Los Angeles area, and they've been saying about 3 weeks needed to get scripts together, then a month or two for production. Obviously sitcoms can re-start faster, while for an elaborate show like Lost, it would seem April 17 makes sense. I'd imagine that's also to coincide with a sweeps period, of course. I bet the network is pushing the producers to have eps ready for next the ratings period.
 
 
buttergun
12:19 / 22.02.08
Like the Sayid/Ben reveal last week, in last night's episode I figured out almost immediately that Claire's son would turn out to be Kate's "son" in the future segments. Did anyone else figure this out? Is it just me or are the mysteries becoming a bit easier to answer this season? I'm not trying to come off like I've figured it all out (which I think is impossible with a show that's largely been made up on the fly), I'm just curious if others have noticed this. The way Kate was having difficulty with Aaron on the island, and then the references to her son in the future...it just seemed as on-the-nose as last week's moment where Sayid gazed at Ben's hidden room of passports.

Anyway, so does this mean Claire's dead? I'm also wondering about the "8" Jack mentioned as having survived the crash. This means the media knows of two more characters who survived, other than the now-famous "Oceanic 6" of Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid. So we have two more mystery people. And we know the agent who captured Kate isn't being put forward as one of the "8" who survived, as Jack said he died in the crash.

My guess is the other two of the Oceanic 6 would be Jin and Sun. I'm also wondering why Jack's story is 8 survived...perhaps there really were two more characters who struck a bargain with whoever (which is my assumption, hence their silence when off the island) to leave, and something happened to them.

One final thing...this is the second time we've seen Jack visit a character at the end of their future-segment storyline. First with Hurley, now with Kate. And in both cases it seems he's checking up on them, ensuring they aren't about to talk (note how he looked around cautiously when Kate said Jack had told that story about the 8 survivors so many times, she thought Jack actually believed it). And Hurley even directly asked Jack if he was there to make sure he didn't talk. So is Jack somehow on the other side, or more likely is this just super-Jack trying to run everyone? The latter seems correct, as it would no doubt lead to an eventual breakdown, as we witnessed in the Season 3 finale.

And this was the first Kate story that didn't annoy me. I've gotta say it was a bit cheap that Kate and Sawyer apparently only indulged in some heavy petting. Sawyer's "we didn't do it last night cause you were sad" when coming back from the commercial break seemed lame. Prudish writers. Let 'em have sex!

And on Locke...I always liked him, but he's getting a bit annoying this year. I'm sure this is the point, so hopefully something will pan out with his story.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:30 / 22.02.08
now-famous "Oceanic 6" of Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid.

Aaron?
 
 
Uatu.is.watching
14:30 / 22.02.08
Can we please get past the whole "they're making it up on the fly" thing. They have a plan, the fine details may change, but they have a plan.

I interpreted the idea of eight Survivors as two people survived the crash, but never made it back, hence the Oceanic Six.

I do think it's interesting that Jack is appearing in all of the flashforwards, but I couldn't tell you why. I do think that all the lying, and maybe worrying that the others will discredit his story is leading Jack down the road to the bridge from the season 3 Finale.
 
  

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