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Lost - Season 4 (US)

 
  

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miss wonderstarr
18:03 / 04.03.08
There was a bit of a stretch with her phone number, too, as the number Penny gave Desmond in 1996 was a post-2000 area code. Strictly speaking I think she would have had to give him an 0171 code, and he would have had to convert it, in 2004, to an 0207 code.
 
 
Spaniel
18:47 / 04.03.08
This must stop.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:43 / 04.03.08
I'm sorry Wonderstarr, that was too many numbers for a television show post.

Has Saayid leg-choked someone again yet?
 
 
Dead Megatron
21:57 / 04.03.08
There was a bit of a stretch with her phone number, too, as the number Penny gave Desmond in 1996 was a post-2000 area code. Strictly speaking I think she would have had to give him an 0171 code, and he would have had to convert it, in 2004, to an 0207 code.

Yeah, that and the misspelling in the Brazilian passport shows the writers and/or producers clearly lost all direction and the show is doomed...

Has anyone actually tried to dial the number Penny said and see who answers the call?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:05 / 05.03.08
According to Lostpedia, all numbers with that set of opening digits are designated by Ofcom (I think) as fictional, for use in TV and films.
 
 
Spaniel
12:41 / 05.03.08
Watched the final mobisode again last night. I'm not sure what the twist is supposed to be: that Vincent is told to wake Jack up by his Dad? I suppose that must be it, but it doesn't seem like much of a twist to me.

We know by now that the people see phantoms on the Island - that Vincent should have seen and interacted with one of them doesn't surprise me in the least. A couple of vaguely interesting questions arise from this, however: to what exent Vincent's activities have been directed by the phantoms, and why would Jack's personal phantom appear to Vincent? Could just be a quick way of the making the point - that Phantoms are pulling at least some of the strings - afterall we simply wouldn't recognise Vincent's private demon, but I've always half-assumed that the phantoms manifest as they do because they're seen through the lens of particular characters, and that would appear to be refuted by this particular turn of events. Unless of course a future flashback goes on to reveal Vincent's dark history with Poppa Jack.
 
 
Seth
12:55 / 05.03.08
Strong episode, one with many potential clues as to the overall mythology of the show.

Between this and the last episode we now have interpretive keys to bring to bear. We know the writers share our reading list, what with the VALIS and Slaughterhouse 5 references. Both deal with slips of consciousness in time, the former with two time zones that have become superimposed, the latter going further with what has become the all-pervading time-tree/time-worm model.

If Desmond is looking for a constant to anchor him, then it seems reasonable to suggest that this was the purpose of inputting the numbers every hundred and eight minutes - to create a huge bloody annoying season long constant between the island and another time and place. I agree with other posters that the failure to input the numbers and the resulting explosion is what caused the time slip between the island and the rest of the world, plus Desmond turning into Billy Pilgrim.

One important question my brother and I were asking myself is why it that Desmond1996's consciousness is leaping rather than Desmond2004? It was the latter who got dosed with radiation when the hatch blew, after all. The way that we explained it was that when time travel is involved effect sometimes precedes cause... and all of a sudden this could explain a lot about the off-island synchronicities in the show, with all the disparate cast members being strangely drawn together at earlier moments in their lives, possibly even influencing them to board the same plane. We have a precedent for that kind of phenomenon now and I imagine we'll see a lot more of it.

This could be what the smoke monster does... either look for or attempt to eliminate constants. We've seen someone's memories playing out across its surface. Could it be looking for anchor points?

I'm sure we had more thoughts than this, but we also drank a fair bit of whisky and so may have forgotten.
 
 
Seth
13:05 / 05.03.08
Oh yeah. If it's about consciousness travelling in time then it would also explain the ghosts throughout the series (the appearance of a person's consciousness without a body, with that consciousness' constant being the person to whom they were appearing... hence how Hurley could make Charlie disappear by rejecting him... maybe), plus the appearance of an older Walt. If the time slippage had been planned from the start then what would have seemed to the audience to be a mistake in casting a child actor when the whole show has taken place only over three months would actually be a very canny move. Locke's reference to him seeming bigger only seems to be a flippant in-joke. Kate's horse, for one of the weirder possible examples, could be a freak one-off manifestation of a constant as she is strangely effected by the island's temporal field.

It would be fun to try and make a list of the various aspects of the show that cannot be potentially explained via this theory.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:52 / 05.03.08
hehe, now I want to see the dark story that connects Kate and her horse \ Doc Shephard and Vincent...

have these spiritual appearances - including Hurley's bald friend from the sanatorium - occured on specific locations?
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:08 / 05.03.08
you mean, like...the island?

I gotta get me a copy of Slaughterhouse 5
 
 
Spaniel
07:04 / 06.03.08
It may not be the book you're expecting. It certainly isn't much like Lost, or indeed most science fiction generally.

Very good, though.
 
 
Spaniel
20:28 / 07.03.08
Charles Widmore, eh?

I. Told. You. So.

Now, could Ben's mole on the boat be anyone other than Michael? I can't think of any other explanation that would require Locke to "sit down".
 
 
Seth
22:15 / 07.03.08
Boone?

Only kidding. Has to be Michael.
 
 
buttergun
04:47 / 08.03.08
I wasn't as crazy about this episode as the others this season, but man...that final scene, of Ben happily calling "See you guys at dinner!" to Sawyer and Hurley had to be the best ending in the show's history.
 
 
Tsuga
12:20 / 08.03.08
I was a little disappointed in that one, I'm not sure what the point was, really. It was mostly just more expository on things that we already know. Okay, Penny's dad is the one after Ben and the island, that was kind of given away last week (and hinted at before), right? The main plot was chasing the shippies to poison station Tempest to watch them stop some plan to kill everybody, for no clear reason? I mean, there's still a bunch of people on a ship who know where they are, what good is it going to do to kill everyone on the island? Where was Ben going to find a mask? So we find out that Ben wants to own Juliet for some reason (Goodwin's wife mutters, "you look just like her") and will kill anyone who gets in the way, as usual. And Juliet is sweet on Jack, no surprise there, they're trying to create these romantic tensions all around. Maybe I didn't enjoy this one as much because it was a little Juliet-heavy and I get a little tired of her seemingly self-conscious pursed mouth and furrowed brow, but that's not really relevant.
It wasn't a bad episode, it just didn't add much.
 
 
Spaniel
12:39 / 08.03.08
I'm itching to respond, but I can't right now.

There was lots in that episode. Lots.
 
 
Tsuga
12:56 / 08.03.08
You tease. Seriously, I do look forward to seeing what you (or anyone else) got out of it.
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:14 / 08.03.08
I´ve just read an interesting theory on another forum about Walt being Ben´s spy.

- Walt has been with the others for weeks. They might have been able to brainwash him.
- Walt also knows about the freighter (he talked to Locke about it at the end of season 3).
- He could also pull off this appearing/disappearing trick the others are known for (like the psychiatrist in the last episode).
- As a spy Walt would be a lot less suspicious than his father since he is "just a kid".
Plus, this would be less obvious than Michael being the spy.
 
 
Spaniel
17:05 / 08.03.08
Not inconceivable, however it does face the problem of Walt being much older than he was when he left.

Course, if Walt is still alive and with Michael on that boat, then it would have to be explained anyway.
 
 
wicker woman
17:11 / 08.03.08
As a spy Walt would be a lot less suspicious than his father since he is "just a kid".
Plus, this would be less obvious than Michael being the spy.


How would a child not be suspicious on a research vessel with an extremely limited crew? Or, at least, any less suspicious than anyone else? I'm very interested in how they're going to explain who this spy is (I'm sticking with Michael), and how exactly they got themselves on the boat.

As is usual since the Others started getting fleshed out more, this last episode has left us wondering whose side to be 'on'. I mean, Ben is obviously a loon, at least as far as Juliet is concerned... but then, Charles Widmore is a cold, cold bastard. Where do the Shippies themselves come in? I get the feeling even they don't know the whole story, and Faraday doesn't strike me as the type of guy who'd be cool with murdering an entire island full of people.

Also, I want some answers about the smoke monster, damn it. Locke and Ben's purposeful teasing of the audience aside, I'm really hoping for some more info on it before this season is over, if not before the break.

It's regrettable that this episode has been knocked down to 13 episodes from the already-reduced 16. It seems like they're really gearing up to dole out some answers, something that at this point could require an entire season to itself.
 
 
Spaniel
17:59 / 08.03.08
Tsuga, I feel your pain. Juliet's pouty face really got on my nerves until quite recently. Now, however, I quite like her. Not sure what brought about the change of mind, but I think it happened towards the close of Season 3.

So what did I get from the episode? Here's a list of stuff in no particular order.

1. That Charles Widmore is fer a fact the power behind the Freighter Force. This was heavily hinted at last week, sure, but to have it set in stone - in Lost - was a treat. Particularly for me 'cause I done called it ages ago.

2. That Ben would consider going all scorched Earth on everyone's ass if he felt it was called for. Now I know he's done something like that before, but to know that he's prepared to go that far raises some interesting questions about what exactly is at stake on that Island, and what it all means to Ben.

3. That Ben is a very emotional being, and not just a cold bloodied reptile who cares for his young but no-one else. Ben's love for Juliet is clearly dangerously powerful. This is interesting information in show where interpersonal dynamics are so important.

4. That not only is Charles Widmore behind the Freighter Force, he is also very likely a complete wanker. Of course we'd all suspected as much, but to show footage of him beating a man to death places him firmly in the baddie camp.

5. Following on from that, we now have the clearest picture yet of the forces at play here, and how they relate to each other. Things are being delineated in way that we've never seen before now.

6. That Jack really does harbour feelings for Juliet and vice versa. Now the show's soapy side might not be of much interest to some of you guys (although I struggle to see how anyone could enjoy Lost without enjoying that stuff) but I was keen to see that potential plotline bear some fruit. And, you know, this could well be highly significant stuff in the grand scheme of things - at the very least it's likely to profoundly effect the the Jack, Kate, Sawyer love triangle, which, let's face it, really needs to be shaken up.

7. Juliet's back story. We now know that she doesn't blame the Losties for Goodwin's death, she categorically blames Ben. I imagine there's a lot of anger there.

8. That the Island appears to profoundly effect people's immune systems - so much so that their bodies reject foetuses in much the same way that they would normally reject transplanted organs. Not huge news, but another piece of the puzzle.

9. Oh yeah, we have a much clearer idea about the Freighter Force's mission.

10. Hey, another Hatch! My wife seems to think smeone mentioned something about the Tempest being the Island's source of power. I didn't catch that - can anyone confirm or deny?

11. Ben's out.

There's probably more, but I can't bring anything else to mind at the moment.

The plot was moved along, relationships were changed and/or complicated, mythology was revealed. I'd say that was pretty great stuff.
 
 
Tsuga
18:18 / 08.03.08
I think that I heard Juliet say something about the Tempest being the electricity source for the island when she was telling Jack about it.
You're right that the episode did make suspicions and assumptions more solidified. And that is good, though it did so much at once that I didn't feel like it moved the story along very much. Maybe I'm being picky, though. I don't understand number 11 there, what are you saying— that Ben's going to be left by the wayside now?
 
 
Seth
20:00 / 08.03.08
11. Ben's out of the cell.
 
 
Tsuga
21:50 / 08.03.08
Oh. Yeah.
 
 
Spaniel
15:18 / 09.03.08
El Directo, sorry if what I'm about to write was kinda what you were getting at earlier.

Locke's vision of Walt - why's Walt bigger, why's it more than just an in joke, because Walt's psychically beaming in from the future, innee! I'm liking the theory.

Also, Sayid, he's killing Widmore's people in the flashforward. Not a huge revelation, but worth flagging.
 
 
Mouse
16:07 / 09.03.08
Well, if it _is_ Walt, I guess the nonsense time weirdness people experience could somehow explain how he's aged.

Also, I thought Ben had pretty much maxed out his creepiness, but his "you belong to me" was pretty ace.
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:11 / 09.03.08
Ben´s pupils looked like he had snake eyes. I don´t know if that was intentional or a coincidence.
 
 
Spaniel
17:22 / 09.03.08
I have it in my head that he wears contacts in the role. Don't know whether I just made that up in my head or whether I heard it somewhere.

Mouse, yeah, time weirdness could well explain away older Walt, but for the moment I prefer my theory - not by much, though.

Wondering if the Other's can somehow psychically project themselves now. Would maybe explain the whispers (perhaps they need a bunch of them to do it, and the whispers are the groups thoughts), and how they manage to magic themselves away. Not particularly happy with this line of thinking as it raises all sorts of niggley little questions, but it has something going for it.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:31 / 09.03.08
I just want to know where the fuck Zoe Bell is already. We got a tease of her on the radio phone one episode, but damn it!

Oh yeah, it's totally Michael on the boat. Here's the question, though... did Michael ever make it back to the mainland at all?

Widmore as big baddie is interesting. Do we think he's at the top, though? I'm not convinced.
 
 
sleazenation
23:02 / 09.03.08
You know I really have lost interest in Lost.

I mean I was watching it earlier, but wasn't really interested and the biggest moment was going 'oh look it's Jim Robinson from Neighbours'.
 
 
Spaniel
08:37 / 10.03.08
Great, thanks for that!

I'm not sure if Lost is ultimately about big baddies
 
 
Dead Megatron
12:05 / 10.03.08
It may not be the book you're expecting. It certainly isn't much like Lost, or indeed most science fiction generally.

Very good, though.


For what I've heard, Slaughterhouse 5 is a satyrical/surreal(?) despiction of WW2, isn't it?

As for the show, I second everything Boboss said, with one addition: If I were Locke,I'd take Ben's information and then break the deal and keep him the cell anyway. because, 1) he's just too dangerous to let out, and 2) so that he can have a taste of how it feels to be duped for once.

I found it interesting how carefull they were in not showing Ethan in the recycled planecrash flashback (flashbacks overlaping flashbacks now...). Maybe the actor was not available, but they could still use onld footage for that, or do they have to pay him again if they used his image?
 
 
Spaniel
12:22 / 10.03.08
For what I've heard, Slaughterhouse 5 is a satyrical/surreal(?) despiction of WW2, isn't it?

Kinda. Go read it - just don't expect too many Lost insights.
 
 
Dead Megatron
15:10 / 10.03.08
I will and I won't
 
 
Seth
18:02 / 10.03.08
I think sleaze is angling for a resurrection of the NOT WORTH MY TIME gag.
 
  

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