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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Lost - Season 4 (US)

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06:24 / 16.03.08

That's my assumption. Sun's dialog at the denoument could easily be seen as having been said to the LIVING Jin, ie "I miss you so much." I strongly disbelieve that the powers at be at Lost plan to give us such a tragic end to the Sun/Jin story, and that this whole storyline is a red herring. I'm betting Jin is alive and well in the 2008 of Lost (or whatever year the flash-forwards will experience their culmination), and for whatever reason is still on the island.

09:03 / 16.03.08

There is a fan theory, that they use this plot device to have a way to get rid of the actor. Just like the actress playing Ana Lucia and the one that played Libby, he got a DUI, and if he turns out to be unreliable, they can kill his character off for good.

Also, the actor who played Mr. Eko was arrested for disobeying a police officer and driving without a license, which may have been the reason, his character got killed.

10:43 / 16.03.08

Seems to me that an important component in the final three seasons deal could well be an attempt to establish - contractually - which actors are gonna be round 'til the end. It allows you to go to them and say "look, there's going to be three more seasons of 16 episodes, we'll pay you this much, are you in or out?" Everybody knows where they are: the actors know what level of commitment they're going to have to make, and the creators know who - barring unforeseen problems like (perhaps) DUIs - they've got to play with.

Could just be that the Daniel Dae Kim wanted out, although I take BGs point about the ambiguity of Sun's line.

10:46 / 16.03.08

(In fact I think that ambiguity almost certainly points to Jin being alive and well. 'Swhat my money's on, anyway)

19:27 / 16.03.08

It seems to me that, perhaps, the cast of Lost should be stopped from driving anything with more horses than a Power Wheel.

11:21 / 17.03.08

i don't want to over-speculate, as we don't know what will and won't be shown of Michael's time away from the Island, but a Brazilian blog has posted an interesting theory:

Captain Gault probably wouldn't pick a strange guy and his son from their boat on his way to the Island. and the show's internal cronology [as checked from the freighter's calendars] prevents Michael from reaching mainland to infiltrate Widmore's mission as it is.

but what if Ben's coordinates led his small boat to the close past [opposite to Lapidus' flight back to the freighter taking him, Des and Sayid to the close future], making him having time to reach mainland and infiltrate? would also explain Walt all grown up.

13:25 / 17.03.08

Hmmm, interesting.

13:52 / 17.03.08

Ben's certainly devious enough to do something like that, but quite why Michael would want to work for him is anyone's guess. Especially since what Ben would have asked him to do involves going back to the Island.

Of course, whether time travel is involved or not, the idea that Michael is on a mission orchestrated by Ben, rather than a mole simply by (un)happy circumstance, is very plausible. That being the case, the question of just why Michael has taken Ben as his employer, and has agreed to go back to the Island, is still something that's going to need to be answered.

Maybe he's grateful, which would be sort of understandable but also quite weird.

Really looking forward to the next episode!11!

Keith, like a scientist

16:10 / 17.03.08

Of course, whether time travel is involved or not, the idea that Michael is on a mission orchestrated by Ben, rather than a mole simply by (un)happy circumstance, is very plausible. That being the case, the question of just why Michael has taken Ben as his employer, and has agreed to go back to the Island, is still something that's going to need to be answered.

I assume that, like all of Michael's reasons for doing anything at all, it involves WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLT!

16:23 / 17.03.08

In some way, shape or form, undoubtedly.

23:10 / 17.03.08

I first assume he might be suffering from amnesia from an exit-from-the-island-mishap, but, hey, that time-travel/inflitration/that's-why-Walt-is-all-grown-up/it's-all-Ben! theory so much more fun, I'm dropping mine.

And let me just add that that woman jumping from the boat wrapped in chains may not have been the freakiest thing so far in this show, but it was the creepiest. "hightened cabin fever" makes for good psychologic terror.

08:13 / 18.03.08

Where's Walt is the big question, though, innit?

18:11 / 18.03.08

I was thinking more about the Sun/Hurley dialog at the end, and I'm convinced it can be read that Jin's alive. Someone else already mentioned the actor playing Jin got a DUI; I think when it happened several months ago, I posted on one of these Lost threads that Jin's days might be numbered, given the history of DUI-receiving Lost actors.

But I think that might not be the case. Killing off the now-doting husband of a pregnant wife is a tough move for any writer, and I don't think our people at Lost would attempt it.

Anyway, note when Hurley showed up at Sun's house, at the end of the episode. When she told him no one else was coming, he smiled and said "Good." This coming from the usually-sociable Hurley. My theory is that the effort to lie to everyone about the island (ie the fact that only a handful survived, etc), as well as not talking about the truth with the other survivors, eventually becomes too much of a strain for Hurley and Jack -- both of whom we've seen experiencing breakdowns in other flash-forward segments.

So, Hurley's "Good" might have been a sign that he's happy he doesn't have to pretend Jin's dead, etc, with the other Oceanic survivors...with Jack no doubt being the head bully for the "let's all stick to our lie, people, don't forget" schtick he's doling out in past episodes.

Anyway, Jin's not dead, that's my theory.

21:14 / 18.03.08

If he's not dead, which I wouldn't put past them, it is a pretty weak scene to create— that of her kneeling and crying at his headstone, knowing that he is alive.
Hurley's "good" I took as a reiteration that he and Jack and/or other survivors have a disagreement on the resolution (or lack) regarding the island situation. What that disagreement is, I don't know, but they're obviously setting us up for it. Why does Jack want to go back? Why do Hurley and Sun not want to?
I think if Walt comes back, they're going to have to use the time shift premise.

22:06 / 18.03.08

i'd say hurley and sun would go back with jack and the others anytime. i still find it strange hurley is one of the oceanic six, as for now he's been shown as staying closer to locke than jack.

so far.

02:14 / 19.03.08

A big surprise would be Locke being the last of the Oceanic 6. In a wheelchair, maybe?

09:10 / 19.03.08

That would be a big surprise and would have real dramatic potential. Course, if some of the Losties are back on the Island, they'll probably need one of the show's superstars to justify us going back there in future seasons, so I'm leaning towards nay.

13:54 / 19.03.08

i've jumped from fanblog to fanblog and all of them are counting baby Aaron as the 6th Oceanic survivor. he wasn't in the passengers list so to speak, but he was flying in Claire's belly in an case.

the previous 'official' list that had leaked and featured Jin along with Sun was probably a plant to get us in last episode's twist. maybe they'll say the two bodies Jack mentioned in court were of Claire and some other person. hope it's not Jin, for that matter.

I'm afraid Locke will remain in the Island. by the time bearded Jack and the other Oceanics finally make it back they may find him either as the remaining Losties' increasingly mad leader, or learning more with the Others or even away in the jungle by himself in a new step of his own journey.

something that has not been mentioned in a while: what abou the 4-toed broken statue? could it be a homage to the island's former inhabitants? Sleestaks?

14:55 / 19.03.08

Dunno about that, is it spoilery? I'm disinclined to follow Lost related links that aren't fully explained.

Going by Lindeloff's and Cuse's comment in the podcast I'm assuming Aaron isn't the one of the six. They've also stated that we probably shouldn't be making a big deal out of the other 2.

14:59 / 19.03.08

Wherever Locke is when they get back - even if he gets back with them - he's going to be on a new stage of his journey. Locke will have the dullest, slowest arc on the show if that turns out not to be the case, and I'm thinking that's unlikely to happen.

By the way, I'm assuming this thread has the same spoiler policy as the thread for the other seasons i.e. genuine spoilers for unreleased episodes are not fair game.

15:48 / 19.03.08

the link is not spoilery, Boboss, it's only a fun comparison of both shows' concepts.

if anything i posted was a spoiler i heeby apologize; i usually avoid them myself and merely speculate [a lot].

15:53 / 19.03.08

No, no, I wasn't accusing you of regular spoilage, just worrying about this particular instance.

15:58 / 19.03.08

ok. =)

if you were talking about the statue foot i mentioned, it was only seen by season 2's last eps, when Sayid, Sun and Jin were sailing towards the Others' compound, and I believe never mentioned again.

Lostpedia has a long entry on theories for that one.

16:34 / 19.03.08

The Smoke Monster is a severed toe re-experiencing itself at multiple points in time?

The toe is a... constant?

18:51 / 19.03.08

Hec, do you seriously think a Lost geek like me doesn't know about the foot? Srsly?

04:02 / 20.03.08

dude, I'm lost.

Keith, like a scientist

17:33 / 20.03.08

The last 5-6 posts in this thread are kind of like the middle of Season 2. Some people said some stuff, ran around, and no one really could figure it out, so we just think of all the good time instead (like Saayid kicking ass!).

04:45 / 21.03.08

A question for the group mind on Factions:

1. Originally, the Hanso Foundation set up The Dharma Initiative to study this unique island.

2. Benjamin Linus lead a Purge, killing a large number of Dharma people, and lead a new faction. His motive was something about the previous leaders not being tough enough against the island's inhabitants, or "hostiles" ? Please clarify.

2.b. Ben recruited Michael as a spy on the freighter.

2.c. In the flash forwards, Ben has recruited Sayid to kill Widmore and associates.

3. Billionaire Charles Widmore created fake wreckage, and sent a freighter team to kill Ben Linus and perhaps all of the other inhabitants. If Ben can be trusted, Widmore wants to exploit the island.

4. Where does the Hanson Foundation currently fit into this? Why aren't they after Ben Linus for destroying their original peaceful Dharma group? Do they know of Widmore? (Apparently they are still parachuting food supplies.)

5. I haven't counted our various Losties, as they pretty much react to the above. ...Thoughts people?

12:50 / 21.03.08

Yeah, you've pretty much summed up the problems with evolving a myth through an ongoing show that experiences cast changes, writers leaving, producers leaving, changing of directives, etc. I doubt ALL of the pieces of the Lost puzzle will come together by the series finale in a few years.

As for last night's ep...I liked it, but it was a bit too goofy for me at times. I mean, "The island won't let you die?" Michael as Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day," trying to end his misery? They should've just went all the way and had him drop a coffeemaker in the bathtub in an attempt to electrocute himself.

Also, that "some of us" among the Others can come and go from the island. It's a bit too much how powerful they've made Ben, especially (not to be redundant) when you realize this actor was only supposed to be on Lost for a few episodes...until they decided to increase his part. Now we have Ben the Bond villain, who despite being in chains and captive can still direct his orderlies and move massive amounts of money around.

I did enjoy how Michael only saw Libby in his nightmare visions. Two appearances...I wonder if one of them was written to be for Ana-Lucia? If so, she must've really ticked off the producers with her rumored "set problems," as they didn't even bother to bring her back. Hence, it implies Michael is only upset about killing Libby. Which, as a still-confirmed A-L hater, makes sense to me.

I like the intertextual elements added by the flash-forwards...specifically, how pissed Sayid was to learn Michael works for Ben, when we all know that in the future Sayid himself will work for Ben. I also say I loved how the captain took Sayid's revelation about Michael's true motives with such a cool and calm expression. And I also loved how that bloodstain from last episode was still on the wall in Sayid and Desmond's room. That Michael's just one lazy deckhand.

Keith, like a scientist

15:05 / 21.03.08

2. Benjamin Linus lead a Purge, killing a large number of Dharma people, and lead a new faction. His motive was something about the previous leaders not being tough enough against the island's inhabitants, or "hostiles" ? Please clarify.

Ben ran away from his alcoholic, guilt-heavy dad and ran into the "hostiles" (likely Black Ship/4 Toe Statue descendants/survivors) and joined up with the them after being convinced that Dharma was bad for the island by visions of his mother/black smoke/island spirit.

That's how I took that whole thing, at least.

22:33 / 21.03.08

I liked how Harold Perrineau, playing Michael (as Kevin), would always have a pregnant pause, and then look around nervously, before answering any questions.

"Hey, are you our new engineer?"
".........No, I'm just a...deckhand."

"Hi, what's your name?"
"..........Kevin Johnson."

That's acting! Pretending to be someone pretending to be someone!

22:52 / 21.03.08

Lots moving through the brain. Will come out when sober.

Re Michael not being to kill himself

a) Predetermination is an undeniable feature of the show and therefore unsurprising and not particularly weird

b) It wasn't dwelt upon and wallowed in - it was far from ostentatious - it was handled with subtlety and skill. Most sci-fi is nothing like as graceful

So basically, no, I didn't find it awkward in the slightest.

13:45 / 22.03.08

Now sober.

Point b was overstating it a little. What I meant to say was that it could've been handled in a much heavier handed fashion.

On Ben being a mastermind, that's just how it is, I'm afraid. Lost has always been over the top and not a little silly, and sci-fi is full of Machiavellian villains, Ben works within the milieu if you ask me. Personally I love it.

On Jin being alive, having rewatched Ji Yeon I'm rather less convinced. Sure there's a ambiguity there, but only a tiny, tiny bit.

On Sayid, could he be bluffing? Because Sayid, as we all know, is bloody brilliant at reading people, and almost certainly believes that Michael believes that the freighter guys are up to no good. And you know, he's a cunning plan kinda guy.

Keith, like a scientist

04:17 / 23.03.08

I dunno, Saayid hates and distrusts Ben and hates traitors. Hearing that the traitor Michael is working for Ben probably put Michael in "fuck this dude" column of Saayid's mental list.

08:49 / 23.03.08

I wonder how much of the flashback is true. This flashback was different from the usual ones, because it was told by Michael to Sayid and Desmond. And Michael is definitely an unreliable narrator. So maybe he made some things up. His unsuccessful suicide attempts make more sense to me as a lie than as the island manipulating a revolver thousands of miles away.

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