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Lost - Season 4 (US)

 
  

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Keith, like a scientist
12:18 / 02.06.08
Claire...

I've decided to start re-watching the show, and I'm still in S1 right now, back when Aaron was still a bun in the oven.

What about the psychic's insistence that only Claire can raise the child by herself, only her influence will save things from going bad. But now she is...er, not alive, exactly, it seems, and her, um, ghost, is insisting that Aaron not be brought back. So, basically, WTF?
 
 
buttergun
14:41 / 02.06.08
I assume this portion was before the writers realized how boring Claire is. Also, thanks for bringing up the episode which I still believe is the worst in Lost history.

Anyway, fantastic finale to a fantastic season. By far my favorite. What with all of those interlocked stories in various timeframes, that season finale was nearly (Orson) Wellesian.

Saw some stuff online...the backwards voice on the phone in Kate's dream said something along the lines of "The island needs you," and the consensus is (by people with super hi-fi stereos, I'd assume) that Sawyer whispered to Kate: "I have a daughter in Alberquerque. You need to find her. Tell her I'm sorry."

There were also two alternate endings, shown on Good Morning America (and now on YouTube): one with Sawyer in the coffin at the end of the episode, the other with Desmond in the coffin.

It's funny, we're now exactly where we were last year at this time. Everyone wondering, after Season 3's "future shock" surprise ending, what Season 4 would entail -- storylines in the future, with flashbacks to the island, or what? Now again we're unsure how Season 5 will unfold. I'd assume the main storyline will be the Oceanic 6 heading back to the island -- with Locke's corpse and post-puberty Walt in tow (remember, ALL of them have to go back...and Walt was one of them) -- with stuff occuring on the island in storylines which used to be part of the flashback structure.
 
 
gridley
15:24 / 02.06.08
I was thinking about how Locke got off the island and my assumption is that at some point the island will need to be moved again (moved back?), this time exiling Locke.

Who will be the island's special friend then? Aaron? Walt?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
16:31 / 02.06.08
Claire's 'ghost' said Aaron must not go back as she'll put Aaron in danger; the phone message said Kate must go back - and Ben that all of them, including Jaremy's body, have to go together in order to proper find the Island - so I guess something very bad happened after the Oceanic 6 got out.

maybe Locke found another of Ben's submarines, or even a boat, and tried to warn them, but a Widmore found him first?

i wonder if Sun, enraged by Jin's death, gave Widmore all the info and a new military operation prompted Locke to go out in search of the Oceanic's help.

yeah, a Black Rock flashback would be a great great way to start next season. if Jacob is not the ship's captain or a Dharma scientist, then to me he's more likely to be faaaar future Jack - who sacrificed himself to save everybody, like he would. the fact that Mathew Fox is currently the only actor who knows how the series ends strengthen my faith in this.
 
 
Spaniel
19:14 / 02.06.08
"I have a daughter in Alberquerque. You need to find her. Tell her I'm sorry."

That's not news, though, surely? I mean, what did people think he'd asked Kate to do? Actually, don't answer that. The messiness of some people's thinking never ceases to bore the crap out of me.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:00 / 02.06.08
i dunno, it could be news to Kate. LOST's characters never really talk to each other about all the mysteries they face and their own shady past. if they did, the show would probably be over by season 3 at most.
 
 
Seth
22:40 / 02.06.08
Plus, you know... I can't remember a lot of stuff that happened in the first couple of years.

Was there a plane crash at one point?
 
 
Shrug
22:46 / 02.06.08
I think it was a shipwreck..... some kind of expedition gone awry?
 
 
Shrug
22:50 / 02.06.08
Pah, and you called me a part-timer, Boboss.
 
 
Seth
22:56 / 02.06.08
I think there was an episode that featured the first televisual depiction of the space-time censor, but I might be getting it confused with my memories of Gunbuster II... or then my senses may have been confounded by Boboss' pomposity in assuming that everyone - casual viewer to loving enthusiast - must be as full-on obsessed with the minutiae as he is.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I love Lost to bits, especially this year. I just, you know... can't remember some bits here and there. I trust people like Boboss to be obsessives who'll correct people like me when necessary, to be compendiums of knowledge for the things I've missed, not to chew the asses of people who haven't picked over the details as much as they should have.
 
 
Shrug
23:36 / 02.06.08
All I know is Terry O' Quinn from Millennium is in it sans his funny little moustache and people shouldn't tell him what he can and can't do.

Plus with all these scattered sitcom, drama series actors, popping up, alongside relative unknowns, I'm hoping they have the good sense to throw in, he of the gravelly voice and immediate gravitas, Lance Henriksen, at some point.
 
 
Shrug
00:24 / 03.06.08
Clarification: I basically missed Season 3.

Addendum:


Moustache.


Gravitas.
 
 
Tsuga
01:37 / 03.06.08
I kind of hate Lance Henriksen, because he's in so often in so many bad shows and movies, and he overacts at times, but he's a powerful presence.
Speaking of: people who haven't picked over the details as much as they should have, I thought that Boboss was talking about Claire/Emile de Ravine with the "part-timer" thing.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:16 / 03.06.08
The only thing I understand about the last ten posts or so is that LANCE HENRIKSON FUCKING RULEZ YOUR FACES!



Oh, and Season 3 is pretty damn good. Second favorite season behind Season 4, actually.

Oh, also, you can't really say something like "if these people tell each other everything, the show would be over by season 3" when the fact is that, in their time, it's only been a couple months. It's one thing to have some flings with characters, and share some life-saving holy shit they are gonna kill me type information, it's another thing to admit that you are a deadbeat dad back in the real world to the girl you are trying to romance.

Also, LANCE HENRIKSON IS FUCKING JACOB GUARANTEED.
 
 
buttergun
04:12 / 03.06.08
Someone on here (Boboss?) once wrote that Lost has the best screaming on TV. I'd agree, and I'd say that with her "Jin's dead" screams of anguish on the helicopter, Sun now holds the grand title. Those were some of the best screams I've heard outside of a cheap horror movie. Kudos to the actress for pulling off a scene of such horror...I couldn't imagine what it would be like to see your spouse explodify before your very eyes.

And as for how Lost characters never speak directly to one another (something I've groaned about in the past but now enjoy), Miles Strom's "What DO I mean?" line to Charlotte had to've been a joke on the writers' part, spoofing their own opaque dialog.

Let's speculate on Jacob. I still think it'll turn out to be Jack, which I'd say is given extra ammo now that we've been informed the actor knows how the show will end (thanks for posting that!). "Jacob" isn't that far from "Jack" (no more so than "Jeremy Bentham" is from "John Locke"), and what with Jack's dad acting as Jacob's intermediary ("I can speak on his behalf"), it seems to fit together.

But who else could it be? Some time-displaced Locke? Ben? Maybe Whidmore? Or some new character we've never seen, ie the Black Rock's captain?
 
 
Spaniel
08:57 / 03.06.08
Hey, Directo, my comments were directed at the other obsessives who obsess too much about time rifts, toes, and inconsequential detail and fail to notice the bloody obvious.

Casual viewers, they get longer shrift.
 
 
NewMyth
09:13 / 03.06.08
You guys gotta hear this: There's a band called "Previously on Lost" -- they take each week's episode and summarize it in a song. I think they've done EVERY episode!

Here's the link to a brief audio piece on the band from NPR (National Public Radio):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91028144

And here's Previously on Lost's MySpace page:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=329982705

A sample lyric: "No matter how hard you try, the island won't let you die." ^_^

(I forget how to make hyperlinks, sorry. Cut n paste.)

P.S. What's the backstory on John Locke going by the name Jeremy Bentham? Is there one?
 
 
Spaniel
09:36 / 03.06.08
Bentham was the father of Utilitarianism, a school of moral philosophy that posits that a good action is one which will bring happiness to the greatest number of people. All kinds of interesting implications there, I think.
 
 
Spaniel
09:37 / 03.06.08
No backstory as yet, though. Not that I can remember, anyway
 
 
Seth
10:19 / 03.06.08
Hey, Directo, my comments were directed at the other obsessives who obsess too much about time rifts, toes, and inconsequential detail and fail to notice the bloody obvious.

Fair enough, sorry for the misread.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:38 / 03.06.08
Bentham was the father of Utilitarianism, a school of moral philosophy that posits that a good action is one which will bring happiness to the greatest number of people. All kinds of interesting implications there, I think.

Also designed Panopticon which brings up a whole different set of interesting implications.
 
 
Spaniel
13:50 / 03.06.08
Cool. I'd forgot about that
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:55 / 03.06.08
buttergun - Jacob could also be Alvar Hanso. o, at this point could be many characters, even a completely new one.

but if he turns oyut to be Jack or Black Rock's captain it would very cool.

more early speculation, i don't know if we discussed this upthread: anyone remember "Adam and Eve", the skeletons found in a cave in season 1? apparently they are very important somehow. could they be future Aaron and Ji Yeon who went to the past?
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:23 / 03.06.08
I really enjoyed this season which was a nice surprise as Lost is a bit like Smallville for me full of eye-candy and of continually variable quality with too much of a tendency for the main characters ignoring the patently fantastical things going on in-front of their eyes.

The revelation of Locke being in the coffin depressed me a little (although, what with flashbacks and dream sequences and Island Resurrections it's not like we'll never see him again). I could care less about Jack and Kate and (to a lesser extent) Sawyer. It's Locke's story that fascinates me.

I really dug the moment this season that underlined what he is. A man who should have chosen a book when he thought he wanted a knife. He finally gets where he thinks he wants to be at the end there, Colonel Kurtz out in the jungle with his tribe, and now we know that, once again, it all goes shit for him.

Horribly fanboy of me, but I'd love to see Sawyer doing groovy "Others' Way of the Whispering Ninja" next time around.
 
 
Shrug
18:13 / 04.06.08
You might also want to have a look at Bentham's Theory of Fictions.... (maybe) I haven't read it but if Lost writers are wont to leave large clues.
I know Bentham was plagued by the fear of ghosts as a child something that continued into his later life.
 
 
Spaniel
18:59 / 04.06.08
Evil, your description of the show's problems throws into the light the marked differences between how I read the show, and what I suspect many, many others, in addition to yourself, take away from it.

I mentioned upthread that mystery is part of the aesthetic of Lost, and that's really the key to why I love it so much, and why it doesn't play anything like Smallville to my tiny mind. On one level, sure, the fact that these people don't actually discuss all the weird shit going on around them is frustrating, and not a little absurd - I get you, I really do - but on another they're maintaining the dark glisten of the unknown that keeps every little thing in Lost humming with potential significance and meaning. Not revealing stuff isn't just a practical narrative device, it's the very essence of the show, what gives it its colour and vibrancy, and what makes it so bloody satisfying when the informatin starts to drip through. Smallville? Well, it would be unfair to say that it doesn't benefit from it's own secrets, but not to anything like the same degree - that's not what the Smallville experience is ultimately about. And, you know, I kinda have to insist that, some forgivable plot facilitating expediency aside, Lost (often) does characterisation much, much better than most popular telly shows.
 
 
Spaniel
12:55 / 12.06.08
Charlotte has very weird eyes. Could she be Ben's bio-daughter?

Okay, Julliette has weird eyes too, but I don't think it's a huge stretch. Afterall, we're supposed be asking questions about her infancy and its relationship to the Island.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
12:57 / 12.06.08
fansites i follow are speculating Charlotte could be either Ben's childhood love, Widmore's other daughter or someone else entirely.
 
 
Spaniel
15:02 / 12.06.08
Is there any evidence to suggest that Widmore has another daughter? Penny has a role to play in Ben's plans for revenge, and is an intrinsic part of Desmond's story arc, but I'm not sure what a second Widmore kid would bring to the party. I recognise that's not a particularly powerful argument - this being Lost there's room for a few surprises - but for now it's my least favourite possibility.

Pretty much convinced she isn't Ben's childhood love interest, however. Ben's clearly a good 15 to 20 years older than Charlotte. IRL Emerson is 54, Mader is 29.

Yeah, yeah, there's always time travel...
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
00:48 / 14.06.08
yeah, both fansites and myself got carried away in early speculation. here's a better one: Charlotte [who implies in the season finale she's been born in the Island] is Annie's daughter. Annie being Ben's childhood love. so there could be a chance she's Alex half-sister, or at least make Ben have someone else to care for - and a potential new target for Widmore.
 
 
Mistoffelees
07:28 / 14.06.08
But how could she be Alex´s half-sister? I thought Ben adopted, that is kidnapped, Alex from Rousseau?
 
 
Spaniel
10:20 / 14.06.08
I'd forgotten all about Annie until I rewatched the final the other day. I imagine we'll get to see the details of Ben's love life next season. Should be interesting
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:35 / 13.01.09
S'cold and snowy here and I happened to stay in watching Season 4 on Blu-ray all weekend. Oh my. I remember it being the greatest season of television while watching it, but I had no idea how much better it would be in a more condensed time period. It's definitely the tightest of seasons, presenting a very compelling season arc, as well as propelling the entire story forward. All this while more or less explaining WTF is with the island. Back in season 1, I had no idea that in 4-5 years I'd be watching a show about time-travel.

Anyway, season 5 starts next week and I was wondering if the Barbelith had any lingering points to discuss as we prepare. Here are the pertinent questions for me:

1. Where did the island move to? Was it time or space or both?

2. Who is alive and who is dead? Possible deads are Jin and Faraday. Jin = meh. Faraday = god please no.

3. How shall the 6 get back?

4. What exactly is Sun doing? Playing Widmore for her own end or exacting cold sweet revenge? Siding with him against Ben? Who does she blame for Jin's possible demise?

5. Who is Jacob?

6. WTF happened to Claire?

7. Miles says Charlotte has been trying to get back to the island. When was she here before? What does that mean?

8. WTF is with Richard the Undying?

9. Who, um, er, were the original mystical habitants of the island, and created all the carvings and secret weird passages, Donkey Wheel of Time, and um, possibly, that other thing...

10. WTF is the black smoke monster?!?!?
 
 
Spaniel
20:37 / 13.01.09
Ah, Keith, just you and me. I like to think of us as the hardcore.

Will be rewatching 4 over the next week.
 
 
Tsuga
21:06 / 13.01.09
Watching on dvd is certainly the best way to go. We saw 2 and 3 that way, it really helps to smooth the perpetual cliffhanger feeling out. I'm ready for the next season to start, I still hope they can pull it off.
 
  

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