BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Son Of Barbannoy

 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627282930... 42

 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:44 / 03.02.08
You know what? If you're still considering it, don't bother. I'm with Haus on this one

Haus, I believe, is also not sure about the wisdom of posting a photo of one's own good self on Barbelith.

The PM system's arguably useful for social arrangements, swapping phone numbers, e-mails etc - pretty obviously, there'd be problems if this sort of information was available on the board.

But I'd be happy enough to never send anyone a PM again, as long as you were prepared to hold up your end of the deal, as it were.

They only undermine your credibility, the pictures, you know?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:19 / 03.02.08
I've been back over the material; horrendously, I've had to, and I'm not sure if either Olulabelle or I emerge that well from it.

This, on reflection, is unreasonable. It wasn't 'horrendous', nor did I 'have' to go back through the exchange concerned. Which, in any case, doesn't seem to have ended all that badly.

Further discussion might be best pursued via PM, though.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:05 / 06.02.08
Less of an annoy, more of an Oh God...
 
 
Closed for Business Time
10:20 / 06.02.08
I think he's gone now...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:44 / 06.02.08
*Resets watch, sets watch again.*
 
 
Mistoffelees
10:57 / 06.02.08
You think ze´s a cylon?
 
 
Jack Fear
11:26 / 06.02.08
Judging from this, Pete seems like a perfectly nice young fellow who could stand to be a little less defensive, to work a on developing his analytical thinking skills, and develop a keener sense of self-awareness. As could we all, really. Not a lost cause, by any means.

Not yet, anyway.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:54 / 06.02.08
He's the one that walked out. I was kind of hoping we'd get some kind of understanding going but, meh, life goes on.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:42 / 06.02.08
Quoting from the Switchboard thread:

Furthermore there were a number of high profile gang rape convictions, involving groups of up to fifty Lebanese men at a time.

This is not just factually incorrect, it's a perfect instance of racial vilification based on something that has been 'exaggerated' to the point of extreme offensiveness. This dude is a neonazi troll. Please don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Or any energy whatsoever.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:04 / 06.02.08
To be fair, he did acknowledge that that was untrue - eventually and after a repeated prompting. He was probably uncritically accepting and repeating propaganda rather than knowingly seeking to deceive.

However.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:27 / 06.02.08
Why can nobody ever storm off and stay stormed? Do they not realise that the only thing worse than a douche-out is a douche-out, followed by redouching?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:52 / 07.02.08
I hate when write something, examine and re-examine it, hit the post button, and then still worry that you've just come across as a douche. I don't know. But, you know: confidence.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:52 / 07.02.08
And we're already at teh frea speach stage? That didn't take long.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
08:57 / 07.02.08
What's next? Honestly I wonder, this guy is tearing throught the fee-fi-fo-list like nobody's business.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:52 / 07.02.08
Isn't that giants? I thought trolls were "fol-de-rol".
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:44 / 07.02.08
Oh God, we're onto "you attacked me over a spelling mistake" already. This is one of you lot having a laugh, isn't it?
 
 
Jack Fear
11:58 / 07.02.08
My post above? I take it back. I take it all back.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:13 / 09.02.08
I wonder if anyone's taken the time to ask him if he's read 'The Invisibles'? AND UNDERSTOOD IT!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:38 / 09.02.08
Have you, Grams? And did you understand it?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:47 / 09.02.08
Well I like to think so, yeah.

GM was sitting in a flat in Glasgow, facing up to a somewhat nebulous future as a script droid for 2000 AD, and then he was given some money for whatever he wrote about Batman, and was suddenly open to all these strange experiences, which bent his head out of shape, and off he went.

I'm on record as loving GM very much, but he's been distant ... the PM's have gone unanswered. Oh well; to hell with that guy in his Ivory Tower; I think that if he met me, he would really like me.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:52 / 09.02.08
Maybe...maybe forty years from now it'll turn out the letters just never got to him, you know, and Judi Dench will pay him in the delightful sitcom they'll make about the two of you, twiddling your thumbs in a gorgeous flat with solid gold linoleum and platinum recliners.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:56 / 09.02.08
That's a terribly materialist interpretation of the text, though. It's not meant to be definitive.

Damn you, though, you middle-class sell-ooots; what the f***ing s**** was the Invisibles supposed to be about? And why have you let what whatever it was down?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
10:59 / 09.02.08
Nazism is a pretty hefty charge people!
Nor do I think that Nazism is a fair charge. Particularly on evidence tendered to the court so far Your Honour......

I would hope that eventually you could ALL write something that addresses what is a particularly heinous accusation. I know that not everyone in this thread made such an accusation or, indeed, supported such an accusation. I also have to say that being intoxicated with righteous fervour is often as bad as bigotry. It fails to see the "opposing" point of view even if that insight disagrees. I hope that you can all get to know me well enough that someday you can go back and review my posts in a different light. As I have said to Haus in private, often journalism or editorial that states an opposing point of view is unfashionable. More often interpretations are formed via the view through the window of prevailing conventional wisdom. That shouldn't diminish the value of opposing views, especially if it is being advanced in a sincere way.

My apology as posted in previous threads is sincere, but please see that my apology does not extend to any direct charges of racism. That would acknowledge that I AM racist! I'm not arrogant enough to say that I've never BEEN racist but I wonder who here can honestly say that they themselves have never been racist? My apology centres around the fact that my post could have literally been interpreted as advancing some sort of racist agenda. I recognise this and apologise for it.I am completely, 100% sorry that it could have been interpreted in such a light. I hate myself for writing a passage that could be interpreted as such. But "racist troll"? "Liar"? Those are pretty heavy charges! I would hate for anyone to take my posts and advance some form of justification for bigotry but I also have to admit that my posts could have been interpreted in such a light. I ask for benefit of the doubt. I ask that this benefit not be conferred solely on protestations of "misunderstanding" but in light of future evidence. It will take some time.

It's a horrible thing to be considered that which you aren't.

Cheers!
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
11:13 / 09.02.08
I would also like to post the following clarification.

In my arguments I tendered as fact the following statement:
"Furthermore there were a number of high profile gang rape convictions, involving groups of up to fifty Lebanese men at a time."

This could better have been written as:

"There were a number of convictions on gang rape charges. Evidence tendered to the trial court alleged that there were up to fifty men of Lebanese descent involved in the rapes."

But the above statement also needs some modification to comply with established fact. I freely admit that there is no way of proving that there was in fact "fifty men of Lebanese descent" involved. I apologise for tendering this as fact. This assertion cannot be proven.

I recognise that this fact may be seen as "cherry picking" fact to fit an argument. I can't deny that assertion.

As I said, I understand that I could be viewed as perpetuating a racist argument. This is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be my intent. If anyone is interested in this issue I invite them to view my posts which include clear clarifications and apologies.

Should anyone require further clarification please post or send a private message.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

Thanks.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:09 / 09.02.08
Pete, mate;

You appear to be employing a time-honoured technique on Barbelith, which goes roughly as follows; post a lot of bolloocks, apologise for it, and then carry on in pretty much the same vein. I used to do it all the time myself (and to be fair, I've only decided to at least try and stop very recently) but it's a destructive cycle. Not in the sense of it being self-destructive exactly, because who cares about that - not free-thinkers such as you and I - but just because it sort of rains on everyone else's parade.

Of course, I'm in no position to comment about anything except, maybe, this;

Pete, you didn't answer the question - do you see yourself as more of a wowser, or a larrikin? Or is the distinction meaningless, to you?
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
12:51 / 09.02.08
Fair enough mate, see it as you will!

That is a massively loaded question in the context of the conversation! I hope yo don't view my explanation as qualification of my apology. My apology stands.

At risk of ridicule.

Larrikin.
 
 
*
16:10 / 09.02.08
Peter, your clarification makes it clear to me that you don't actually understand what racism is well enough to keep from filling the board with it. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

To accuse someone of being a Nazi, as you did in the thread-that-shall-not-be-named, is a pretty hefty charge, and baseless unless they are actually Nazis (or at least neo-Nazis). Nazis can be identified by, among other things, a particular kind of racist and fascist ideology that advances white, Christian (or at least non-Jewish), non-immigrant heterosexuals as innately superior, other people as innately inferior (more prone to committing crimes, less intelligent, etc) and proposes the solution to societal problems is the removal of inferior people by some means--notably in the 1940s rounding them up into camps and eventually gassing them to death. Book-burning is not a way to identify a Nazi unless accompanied by the above.

Racism, on the other hand, is not defined as hating people with different skin color to the point that you wish to kill them, no matter that we white people may wish it was as simple as that. That kind of hatred is the result of racism, which is a structure of ideas embedded in all industrial societies at present that serves to give white people more opportunities than people who are not white. It maintains itself by excusing the misdeeds of white people against people of color as justified, or as harmless pranks, whereas the misdeeds of individual people of color it holds up as evidence against all people of color. It operates through stereotypes and prejudice. It defends itself against attack by many means, chief among them by disguising itself so that even the people who are enabling the operation of racism often do not know they are doing it. If it is allowed to continue, it might result in hatred, killing, riots, economic violence, colonialism, maybe eventual genocide.

When I recognize that my words or actions contribute to racism, I have the power to own up to it, apologize, and stop doing it. So long as I identify racism as something only practiced by people in white hoods, I can't make any headway against the real problem. Likewise, to tell someone that their speech is supportive of a racist power structure is to give them the power to make a change and help to dismantle it instead. I hope whenever I am unconsciously racist, my friends will have the courage and the generosity to tell me so, because being racist is not something I want to do, and ending racism is something I do want to do. And if it takes harsh words to get through to me, then harsh words are what I need to hear. Like the proverbial staff of the Zen priest across the shoulders of the student, it's a mark of grandmotherly kindness. You don't have to agree, but doing this "I'm not a racist! Look at my white hood! You can't see it! Because I'm not a racist!" dance is not helping your case as much as you might think.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:46 / 09.02.08
Zips, I think you might have missed the bit above where Disco does call Peter a nazi, or more precisely a neonazi. That's what he is objecting to, rather than that by being told he is saying racist things that he _is_ being called a Nazi.

More to say on this, but later, I think.
 
 
*
19:36 / 09.02.08
Oh well, tsk, not really called for but understandable, given the sheer numbers of people called Peter who rape people not called Peter in any given year. Up to a million, I should think.

(This post brought to you by the department of not very good parody.)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:51 / 09.02.08
This dude is a neonazi troll

D'you think? I mean I don't know if he's got a particular agenda he's trying to get across. Or at least if he has, so far it seems a bit muddled.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
22:29 / 09.02.08
Thanks Haus, I do appreciate your clarification. Zippy I didn't actually call anyone a Nazi at all, ever! I stated that people were indulging in a metaphorical book burning. You are absolutely correct that book burning alone doesn't make someone a Nazi. But I also understand it wasn't a very nice thing to say, nor was it particularly fair. As such I apologise for invoking any parallel to book burnings. I also find it bloody frustrating that people are free to keep filling the site with unsubstantiated charges not only of Nazism but racism as well against me. For some reason this seems to be acceptable. Shit tends to stick.

I on the other hand HAVE been called a neo-nazi! I think this charge is pretty extreme and can't be supported by any evidence found on Barbileth. I will vigorously defend myself against such charges which, quite frankly, I find to be quite repugnant.
 
 
Fungus of Consciousness
22:46 / 09.02.08
I hope hat this is the final piece I have to write on this whole frustrating fucking affair.

I HAVE apologised that what I have written could be taken in a racist interpretation. As I have said before, I wouldn't be so arrogant to suggest that I have never been guilty of racism but I do my best to pull myself up BEFORE people need to do it for me, indeed before the racism happens. Go back and read my entire post and ask yourself whether it could be read or interpreted not only in a way that puts forward a racist agenda, but also in a way that is attempting to avoid just that. I frankly have had enough of being lectured about this particularly in light of the fact that I have sort to rectify the issue. How many times to I have to keep going back over it, over and over again? I really get the feeling that people won't be happy until I say something along the lines of "I Peter was a racist and was posting a racist rant. I admit it." I'm not going to do this because it isn't true. I apologised that what I wrote could be interpreted as advancing a racist agenda. I stand by that apology because it wasn't my intent. That apology is sincere. I just don't know what else people want but it, along with being more careful in future, is the best I can do.
 
 
pony
22:54 / 09.02.08
Pete, it might be best to just leave well enough alone. If you continue in this dramatic vein, you're never going to let anyone forget about what happened. Continue posting when the mood strikes you (it might be necessary to declare your first two threads lost causes), think about what your putting forth, consider criticism of your posts as non-offensive info that you may learn from, and at some point people will forget about what's just happened, or at least consign it to the past.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:11 / 09.02.08
All very good advice, and I hope you take it, peter.

That said, he DID actually get called a "neoNazi troll" in as many words, as opposed to just being called someone who's trotted out some unpleasant, or at the least, unexamined, statements. So I think he's justified in reacting to that one, at least.
 
 
pony
23:33 / 09.02.08
Oh, I completely agree, Stoatie. Pete has ample reason to be offended by the neoNazi comment, I just don't know if "vigorously defending" his reputation is going to serve him well. There are past examples around here of people making arguably-unacceptable comments about other posters and simply refusing to apologize because of dislike for the target, so in light of this I just thought it might save everyone time and headache if this is just let go of if an apology isn't forthcoming.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627282930... 42

 
  
Add Your Reply