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Scientology

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:45 / 25.02.08

I especially love this bit: As for those responding with the juvenile beginnings of "Anonymous" from the bowls of somthingawful, I'm very much aware of those roots -- this is the primary cause of my initial surprise -- a previously prankish loose-knit group is suddenly socially conscious? Unlikely. The FBI/NSA are injecting action-oriented initiatives that match previous group pranks in an effort to mine data? Likely.

Somehow the tinfoil hat guys seem to have missed the awesome transformational power of LULZ.

And completely misunderstood the nature of SA and the *chans. There have ALWAYS been intelligent, socially-conscious people on them. They usually just get drowned out by the assholes, though.

17:21 / 25.02.08

I really want to be able to find the AboveTopSecret theorizing lulzy, but it just gives me a headache. That kind of "the more convoluted, the better (and fuck evidence)" mentality reminds me of how much I like occam's razor.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:30 / 25.02.08

Fair enough, I guess. I think I just always wanted to BE one of the evil spacelizards.

Anyone who's familiar with *chan memes, though, might be amused by this anecdote, which happened to, well, someone you may know.

04:11 / 26.02.08

Less amusingly, there seems to be one more organization in Florida running afoul of the 13th amendment.

The one banning slavery, that is.

*

04:57 / 26.02.08

Pursuant to the question of whose phone number to use.

18:16 / 26.02.08

The slavery story has reached Glosslip. With video.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:14 / 26.02.08

Actually, stupid though the Above Top Secret thread's premise is, it's actually quite an interesting read, especially a few pages in when various Anons turn up and try to explain Anonymous culture to the ATS crowd, who for the most part really aren't understanding the concept of a leaderless organisation at all.

This seems to be the same problem the $cilons have, and one of Anonymous' greatest strengths- not only is it hard to fight an organisation that's structured that way, it seems to be damn difficult for them to even understand that such a thing is possible. Sooner or later they'll get it, but for the moment it's really working in Anon's favour. Also presumably a source of bafflement is Anon's willingness to contact law enforcement itself when it thinks things might be dodgy. It's hard to paint someone as a criminal organisation when they willingly request police infiltration.

If the internet buzz is anything to go by, I'm guessing 15/3 will be a lot bigger than 10/2. Here's hoping.

(Incidentally, regarding memes and stuff- it occurs to me that the Tottenham Court Road $ci place is right near the Computer Exchange- on a Saturday afternoon I'm guessing a lot of the public might actually be drawn in by "the cake is a lie" and stuff).

WRT the slavery stuff- I think the plan seems to be that this wave of protests will focus on tax exemption- April's gonna be the human rights/families angle. That stuff is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be put out there.

01:44 / 27.02.08

I'm thinking the 15th is going to get a little crazier. There are going to be a lot more excitable folks, and more than a few plants.

Speaking of tax exemption, if I was a minister of a local church and I could read just one thing that would convince me something wasn't right with that organization, what would that thing be?

03:51 / 27.02.08

Geez, I don't even have to leave my computer to do something.

People who like social networking? This is your thing.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:56 / 27.02.08

As the Camp Against Climate Change people found camping outside the airports last Summer, no leaders make it easy for the media (in their case the Evening Standard) to walk around the camp claiming drug use and people planning violent assaults and bomb scares in sensationalist stories and not being able to refute it because no-one is running the camp.

I would have thought it would be fairly easy for the Scientologists to get some people to do something fairly unpleasant and claim they are Anons. Or has this already been prepared for?

09:52 / 27.02.08

Where did Hubbard steal Scientology from?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:30 / 27.02.08

I would have thought it would be fairly easy for the Scientologists to get some people to do something fairly unpleasant and claim they are Anons. Or has this already been prepared for?

Yes, AFAIK the police have been contacted (in London at any rate) and informed about threats apparently made by the Co$ to start shit. There's been talk of actually asking the police to inflitrate Anonymous... I'd be quite surprised if they don't anyway, to be honest.

There's also been a lot of discussion on Enturbulation as to how to deal with troublemakers- ranging from holding them and taking them to the cops yourself, to someone having a sign saying "STUPID IS WITH NO-ONE" for the cameras. The general consensus is to make it obvious to anyone who's watching that Anon is not associating with anyone who starts any shit. I think Anonymous is prepared for this kind of thing.

But yes, it's still a worry.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:32 / 27.02.08

Yeah, judging by this, various Anons are on the case.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:50 / 27.02.08

WHAT THE FUCK???

(police) Officers have been handing out booklets that praise the science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard, the church’s founder, and describe both prescription and illegal drugs as “poison”.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:44 / 27.02.08

Cool! Enturbulator 009, SubGenii who hate (and have been sued by) Co$ have got an album $cientology $ucks, and it's a free download!

There's a track on YouTube. Not heard the album yet, but that song's fucking catchy. I think it needs to be played at the demo.

*

14:55 / 27.02.08

There's also been a lot of discussion on Enturbulation as to how to deal with troublemakers- ranging from holding them and taking them to the cops yourself, to someone having a sign saying "STUPID IS WITH NO-ONE" for the cameras. The general consensus is to make it obvious to anyone who's watching that Anon is not associating with anyone who starts any shit. I think Anonymous is prepared for this kind of thing.

Anon could have thought of this before all the misogyny and harassment and placing false reports with child protection services, thus saving other people a lot of trouble, TBH.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:06 / 27.02.08

Yeah, that's true. Before Wise Beard Man starting giving them advice there were a lot of mistakes made. Actions now seem to be limited to legal and moral ones, otherwise it's a footbullet for the whole thing.

15:10 / 27.02.08

placing false reports with child protection services

Eh?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:22 / 27.02.08

I don't know about that- I knew about this guy, on the harassment front.

*

21:47 / 27.02.08

FoaF; I don't have a supporting link. Sorry. But the story I heard was enough to make me feel bad about liking their anti-Co$ agitation.

*

21:48 / 27.02.08

It was apparently an antifeminist thing, that's the only detail I have.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:17 / 27.02.08

What was the story? What's the allegation?

Thaddeus "B." Glands

23:30 / 27.02.08

I'm with what Stoatie's saying here - the only Anon-created issue that I've seen is the one he linked to, which I thought was fairly reasonably dealt with - at least in terms of Anon saying "this was not our goal, someone did this under our name without any sort of idea of what most of us are trying to achieve".

If there are others, I'd really love to see them, but so far it seems to me that Anonymous are doing pretty well.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:12 / 28.02.08

that's the only detail I have

Well, you clearly have more than that, because you've told us there were false reports placed with child protection services. You must know what they WERE, surely?

To be fair, various members of various of the *chans HAVE been guilty of some horrendous shit. But to say that shit- or ANYTHING- is representative of Anonymous as was, is to entirely miss the point of the Anon that's involved here. THAT part of Anonoymous is evolving.

And what's with the false reports placed with child protection services? What's the deal there? Who were they placed by? Was this just random *channers, or what? You have to back this shit up, I'm afraid.

SOME Anons are still being obnoxious motherfuckers. SOME Anons are achieving great things. You're falling into the trap of assuming that Anonymous is actually an organised group, and is represented by the *chans. It really, REALLY isn't. The inability to understand this is what is hampering the $cis.

*

02:29 / 28.02.08

Simmer down. I'm not making that mistake; I am well aware that the Anons are not organized and that the actions of one are not reflective of the whole. I am, however, less than previously enchanted with the idea of anonymous action since hearing of a case where it encouraged a hateful individual to take advantage of it to hurt innocent people.

I have only slightly more information but I'm not going to give it for reasons of privacy. The whole of what I can give is: A FoaF reports that an Anonymous knowingly made a false report of child abuse to child protective services in order to wreck her life and "teach her a lesson." It is not sufficient to establish anything useful to you, unfortunately. I'm sorry I brought it up.

Really, I'm only irritated that the useful things the anons are doing are associated with the awful things done by some of them. Without the willingness on the part of Anons to call out other anons that do shit things, they don't have credibility. Now that they want credibility, some anons are willing to do this calling out, but it seems that no one did so when before when it was just some woman getting hurt and wasn't harshing their lulz. I'm glad to see it's happening now, but sad that it didn't happen before. And presumably this arseface is still hanging around protected by anonymity and rejoicing in his ill-gotten lulz.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:56 / 28.02.08

Ah, right. Now I'm sober and have reread the last page, I kind of get that. I thought you were referring to something that had taken place during this campaign- apologies for misunderstanding (and I'm not sure why I got quite so snarky, either, so sorry for that too). As it happens, now I'm understanding you I do seem to recall something of the sort, and yes, it was pretty fucking despicable.

Damn. I was all set with a line about how it would be like blaming Canada for Everything I Do I Do It For You, and now I don't get to use it.

In fairness, though, there was also a pretty spectacular occasion a couple of months back where some guy tried to get the *channers to harass his ex-wife, claiming she was evil. Other than being an unconscionable tool, his second big mistake was posting a link to her LiveJournal, wherein it transpired that he'd been stalking her and refusing to pay child support. Within twenty minutes of his starting the thread, they'd got his name, his address, his place of work- everything. And they proceeded to tear him a new one. That's not the stuff that gets on the news, though. (And yes, I'm pretty sure most of them were just doing it because it was fun, but it was hard to sympathise with him, really).

Yeah, probably different people, and yeah, I agree with you about some of them. There seems to be a definite divide, though- a lot of people on the *chans are against the anti-Co$ campaign, and a lot of people in the campaign seem to actually be growing up a bit as a result of it.

(There also seems to be an increase in the number of people calling the nastier element on their shit on the boards themselves as well, which can only be a good thing).

13:50 / 28.02.08

And here I thought it might be about the DCF being called for the child slavery thing....

*

14:09 / 28.02.08

There also seems to be an increase in the number of people calling the nastier element on their shit on the boards themselves as well, which can only be a good thing

I was hoping that would happen. Hooray, and here's to more of it.

grant: No, perfectly valid reports of child abuse I am in favor of. And if they are calling the DCP on $ci, well good on them.

15:12 / 28.02.08

I don't know if any one anon is evolving as much as the beast itself, the legion, is. Those 'Newf*gs' arriving for Chult-Chinology seem less inclined towards the hentai and the OMGCPLOL banter than I've been used to from the english 2ch-style communities, and they also seem to say things like n*gg*r a lot less. That said, it's hard to tell for sure.

I wonder if we're almost seeing a sort of gentrification of the anglo-nonymous, at least temproarily. The intellectualising of this branch of anon is interesting, but well within the remit of the 2ch style. Anon is as anon does, in a horribly Gumpy kinda way, and what anon is, or is likely to do, changes with who anon is made up of.
I do wonder how long the current trend towards sensible actions will last, and how the englsh speaking anonymous community will grow in the wake of this current huge and single-minded growth.

The beauty (and of course the horror) of the 2ch style is that the group can really be - and contain - anything. Anon is what anon does, and any one anon can decide to do almost anything they want. I believe(although my japanese is somewhat lacking) that the japanon are well deeper into this than the anglonon. From what I'm told, they have absolutely everything on their 600 odd boards, and that includes hate speech all over their sites. From what I hear it seems fairly easy to avoid over there, and the sage system keeps a lot of it down, but it does still exist(occasionally in unique forms).
I'm not sure how I feel about that.

For anyone with Japanese skills looking to read further into the 2ch, check it out over here. I am working on the nihongo, but I think translating meme-heavy posting might be a way off for me. If you do get into it, please do let me know how it reads.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:51 / 28.02.08

The beauty (and of course the horror) of the 2ch style is that the group can really be - and contain - anything. Anon is what anon does, and any one anon can decide to do almost anything they want. I believe(although my japanese is somewhat lacking) that the japanon are well deeper into this than the anglonon. From what I'm told, they have absolutely everything on their 600 odd boards, and that includes hate speech all over their sites. From what I hear it seems fairly easy to avoid over there, and the sage system keeps a lot of it down, but it does still exist(occasionally in unique forms).
I'm not sure how I feel about that.

That's kind of why I find the *chans so fascinating, even though over here SAGE doesn't work, as far as I can tell. Coming from a "Barbelith background", they're about as far removed as it's possible to get. They're the exact opposite of a "safe space". I'm absolutely hooked, and have been for about a year now, but there's always a sense of trepidation when hitting "refresh"- as they say on there, what has been seen cannot be unseen, and there's a lot of stuff I wish I could unsee.

Seeing a YouTube video of Moot (who runs 4chan) running a panel at Otakon, and reading his latest news update, I really get the impression that the nasty shit was never his intention. But the hands-off modding on the random board is an ideal of sorts. Sometimes it has hideous results, but, well, it's always random...

Interestingly, he's opened a new forum on 4chan, "/r9k/" (Robot 9000), which as far as I can tell is like /b/ only images and text which have previously been posted in that forum are automatically deleted, meaning that for the last couple of weeks people have been posting all the same old shit just to make sure nobody can post it again... it'll be interesting to see what transpires once all the old images are banned. Because what always makes /b/ great, when it is, is the original content. Hidden in amongst the porn and the racism are often some absolutely stunning examples of wit. (It's real "crawl through the shit to get to the diamonds" territory).

If nothing else, it's an interesting, and common-sense, approach to spamming.

17:06 / 28.02.08

Yeah. I think the style of discourse has an effect on those involved in it too.

I don't really feel I reliably know what the shit/gold ratio is anymore, which is, I think, one effect of the sensory bombardment and peer group reinforcement(i've got a good vague idea, obviously - specific and accurate is hard). There's a certain amount of kinship forms just through reading, and shit that isn't funny can often seem to be after overexposure. Friends bands sound better than they often are, sorta thing.

Mudkips, for example. Why the hell is that shit funny? It isn't! But you love it, I'd wager, because when you hit chansville, it was one of the first memes you were really part of. (maybe you do find it funny... sorry if this all sounds horribly elitist about your favourite comedy thing)
I've noticed myself becoming more and more prone to 'OMGLOL(whatever-thing)' type chat since first discovering these sites, which was something well outside my banter-sphere a few years ago.
Can't really be anything else other than the memes, eh.

Hm. These ramblings are no longer really on topic. Is this discussion worth a thread, perhaps more specifically about the 2ch phenomenon?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:21 / 28.02.08

Yeah, maybe the Lab?

(But i DO liek mudkipz...)

20:10 / 28.02.08

Enturbulation appears to be down.

I would have expected this the week before 15 Mar....

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:13 / 28.02.08

Nah, I wouldn't worry, the last few days it's been up and down like the Syrian Empire. I think there's just a lot more traffic than prepared for. It's working fine for me now, but a couple of times this afternoon it was fucked.

13:46 / 29.02.08

I can't tell if the comments on Glosslip are all a puppet show or not.

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