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Scientology

 
  

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Quantum
14:14 / 10.06.07
So, Scientology. I was going to try and present a balanced and impartial view, assessing their 'faith healing' and their status as a religion, then I thought fuck it. Nobody's going to pretend they're not manipulative moneygrabbing cultists anyway (unless Travolta or Cruise are reading Barbelith) so why bother?

I just spent ten minutes trying to get a bunch of links to work which I will try again if needed, a William Burroughs PDF on scientology techniques, the recent Panorama programme where they stalked the BBC until Sweeney screamed in a dude's face, the Xenu tragedy 75,000,000 years ago when he nuked loads of alien souls, the billion-year employment contract signed by sea org employees, psychiatrists being responsible for the holocaust (!) the South Park episode 'Trapped in the Closet' and the scientology website, but the evil emanations of the galactic warlord Xenu/Xemu fucked up my html somehow and I lost them all. Thetans are responsible, blatantly.

One thing I salvaged- here's a leaked internal Volunteer Minister memo about the 7/7 bombings in London, where scientologists kept counsellors away from victims as a part of their war on psychiatry- "...get up every org VM tent in a high traffic area where we can reach as many people as possible and get them introduced to Scientology right now."

So, I obviously consider them an evil manipulative pseudoscientific cult invented on a bet with Heinlein, with a townful of brainwashed devotees living the dianetics dream and rinsing money out of gullible hollywood stars and vulnerable people.
On the other hand, lots of fringe groups and unusual religions and practices get slated by the press and have rubbish members, and that doesn't invalidate them as belief systems. My opinion is based only on media reporting and the internet, does anyone know anything good about them? Anyone got a friend who was helped by dianetics or something?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
14:23 / 10.06.07
So, I obviously consider them an evil manipulative pseudoscientific cult invented on a bet with Heinlein, with a townful of brainwashed devotees living the dianetics dream and rinsing money out of gullible hollywood stars and vulnerable people.

Funny you should say that; here's what I posted in another forum, earlier today...

Something I've noticed with Scientologists is that their energy seems to be very similar to one another - this occurs in many religions, especially those with monastic lifestyles such as the Shoalin Monks, as well as military forces, and even marriages, especially when the participants actively try to be like one another, however there are noteable differences with Scientologists.

A Shaolin Monks energy comes from within and radiates outwards, so that whilst it comes out being similar to their brethren they still retain the core of who they are, though this core gradually changes in a healthy manner as it is focused towards their goal - it's like a pyramid of the various shades of orange which then focuses towards a pure saturation and intensity, which is similar to the process other groups go through.

A Scientologists energy, however, seems to come from without, radiating inwards and smothering the core, which is rather unhealthy; what's more unhealthy is that all this energy wants to do is replicate itself for the sake of replicating itself, whereas a Shoalin Monks has a somewhat more positive goal. I'm trying to be delicate about this, but basically my impression of Scientology is that it's a hard sell, mentally dominating energy that forces itself on others and smothers them, like a choking vine does to other plants; it retreats quickly when it encounters resistance as it preys on weakness, and its only real defence is to appeal to weakness.

My advice is that unless you want to study such energy, as well as find out who the bigger predator is, it's best to avoid Scientology because it's very good at what it does.
 
 
Quantum
14:27 / 10.06.07
Well, they're not growing as fast as the Jehovah's Witnesses and I've managed to avoid being convinced by them so I think I'm OK. Rather than avoid them I'm interested in discussing their relationship with the occult, for example L.Ron's dalliance with members of the OTO;

L. Ron Hubbard and the Occult
By Jon Atack

[....]

John Whiteside Parsons, usually known as Jack, first met Hubbard at a party in August 1945. When his terminal leave from the US Navy began, on Dec 6th, 1945, Hubbard went straight to Parsons' house in Pasadena, and took up residence in a trailer in the yard. Parsons was a young chemist who had helped set up Jet Propulsion Laboratories and was one of the innovators of solid fuel for rockets. Parsons was besotted with Crowley's Sex Magick, and had recently become head of the Agape Lodge of the Church of Thelema in Los Angeles. The Agape Lodge was an aspect of the Ordo Templi Orientis, the small international group headed by Aleister Crowley.

Parsons' girlfriend (Sara Northrup) soon transferred her affection to Hubbard. With her, Hubbard and Parsons formed a business partnership, as a consequence of which Parsons lost most of his money to Hubbard. However, before Hubbard ran away with the loot, he and Parsons participated in magical rituals which have received great attention among contemporary practitioners.

Parsons and Hubbard together performed their own version of the secret eighth degree ritual (17) of the Ordo Templi Orientiis in January 1946. The ritual is called "concerning the secret marriage of gods with men" or "the magical masturbation" and is usually a homosexual ritual. The purpose of this ritual was to attract a women willing to participate in the next stage of Hubbard and Parsons' Sex Magick.

Hubbard and Parsons were attempting the most daring magical feat imaginable. They were trying to incarnate the Scarlet Woman described in the Book of Revelation as "Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlot and Abominations of the Earth...drunken with the blood of saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." (18). During the rituals, Parsons described Babalon as "mother of anarchy and abominations." The woman who they believed had answered their call, Majorie Cameron, joined in with their sexual rituals in March 1946.

Parsons used a recording machine to keep a record of his ceremonies. He also kept Crowley informed by letter. The correspondence still exists. Crowley wrote to his deputy in New York "I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts."


For once I agree with Crowley.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
14:35 / 10.06.07
Heh, thats pretty funny - though I seem to recall a similar rite being performed in Promethea (yes I know it's not a historical text book on magick) by Crowley.

I also recall reading all 12 of L.Ron Hubbards Mission Earth books in about two weeks, and being marginally tripped out whilst doing so - I can distinctly remember considering that there might just be a little bit of truth to it, but that's bound to happen if you delve into fantasy deep enough.
 
 
Quantum
14:35 / 10.06.07
On the writing of some of the tracts-
"I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys." --- L.R. Hubbard 1967, in a letter to his wife.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
14:38 / 10.06.07
"I take a couple uppers, I down a couple downers, but nothing compares to these blue and yellow little pills."

I wonder what he would have come up with had he been doing tabs of LSD whilst sipping on Ayahuasca.
 
 
Quantum
15:05 / 10.06.07
Crikey, the more I look the more terrifying it is.

youtube of their volunteer ministers propaganda

Here's an interview from L.Ron Jr.

'99% of what my father wrote about himself was untrue'

When he says his father was involved in organised crime, drug smuggling and black magic, and says the basis of scientology is Crowley and black magic, it's impossible to verify, but I'm interested in the relation between Scientology and magic.
What do you people think?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
15:18 / 10.06.07
I'm about as interested in the magic of Scientology as I am in swimming in sewerage; there are much better places to go swimming, with less risks to my health.

I'm vaguely interested in their mental domination techniques, though from what I've encountered they seem to be little more than brute force approaches to taking advantage of social conditioning and instinct - I doubt that even they are aware of what they're doing in a magical sense, and just how tacky it is.
 
 
Quantum
15:43 / 10.06.07
Wow. The town is called Clearwater, and it seems they let someone die, to put it generously. Lisa McPherson, Lisa died needlessly at the hands of Scientology. Hubbard Tech produced the death of a young vibrant woman.

If they're a valid religion, shouldn't we defend their right o religious freedom? If they're a dangerous brainwashing cult, shouldn't we lobby to have them shut down and prosecuted?
 
 
Saturn's nod
15:54 / 10.06.07
My impression is that blackmail's involved in the cult's control of its members: because I think complete records are kept of incomers' past wrongdoings. I believe the internal narrative of this is in order to help the person get 'clear', but I find it hard to see how this could avoid coercing compliance to the cult on pain of having one's past trials revealed.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:03 / 10.06.07
Though isn't that similar to what goes on within a Catholic Confessional? I'm aware that in such an instance there is a confessional seal, however this doesn't stop unscrupulous Priest from breaking it or using it for blackmail; as much as I don't like Scientology, I'd prefer some proof of blackmail as opposed to conjecture, especially if they employ methods that are accepted elsewhere.

Basically it's the old "butterknife can be used to kill someone" arguement.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
16:05 / 10.06.07
And whilst I doubt that records are kept of confession, they are in regards to psychotherapy, and yet there's no evidence to support the widespread practice of blackmail.
 
 
*
16:36 / 10.06.07
I grew up near Clearwater.

You think the Knights of Malta are something to worry about? The Church of Scientology has a navy. A navy.
 
 
Saturn's nod
17:27 / 10.06.07
isn't that similar to what goes on within a Catholic Confessional?

No. Two important differences that I see are 1) as the article you linked to points out the Roman Catholic confession at least gestures towards the anonymity of the penitent. 2) I have not heard that the Roman Catholic priesthood systematically record the confessions of all penitents. It is the systematic practice which I think makes a great difference - one person of evil intentions is different to a whole organization with the same practice though undetermined intentions.
 
 
Quantum
17:34 / 10.06.07
A 1960's BBC documentary interview with Hubbard. Top class.
 
 
Saturn's nod
18:09 / 10.06.07
Re: blackmail I have no evidence nor is it mentioned by any of the critic's or ex-member's writings I've just browsed. It just occurred to me as a possibility in the light of what I'd read in the Guardian recently about the systematic record keeping & encouragement to confess past misdeeds, and the dodgy reputation they have as a cult.
 
 
Saturn's nod
18:12 / 10.06.07
No, my hasty: allegations of abuse of 'confidential records' from the second case I've read through:

One of the top executives of Valley Org was C****** R***. She had a very serious medical problem, possibly multiple sclerosis. Sometimes she was in such tremendous pain she had to crawl on her hands and knees. One time she was in such a position when she called me from her office to come and help her. She could not get time off to deal with her medical problem and the usual "PTSness" was ascribed to it. When her stats went down, it was leaked that she had been a prostitute and the man she was married to had been her pimp. Whether this was true or not is unknown. But the fact is that this information was allegedly gleaned from her confidential counseling folders. from here
 
 
Quantum
18:21 / 10.06.07
whilst I doubt that records are kept of confession, they are in regards to psychotherapy, and yet there's no evidence to support the widespread practice of blackmail. mako

Well, psychiatry is a licensed profession with regulatory controls and a pretty strict code of conduct as far as I know, including the doctor/patient confidentiality requirement. Scientologists are not so hot on the external regulation, blame psychiatrists for the Holocaust and are renowned for their unethical practices to procure money from vulnerable people. They're not really comparable, unless you consider psychiatry a religion or cult.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
18:30 / 10.06.07
I don't want to come across as being in favor of Scientology, however I am favor of being innocent until proven guilty - I think that Scientology may be guilty of having a setup that can easily be abused, especially given the lack of external regulation or widley known internal ethical standards.

This isn't to say that they don't abuse this setup as standard practice or that it isn't in place specificially to be abused, but rather that there is still reasonable doubt on the issue.
 
 
--
18:32 / 10.06.07
Well, it certainly is a fascinating topic to read about, that's for sure. I'm against the very idea of Scientology, of course, though I love the jargon/technology they employ, and a lot of their "secret" documents (many of which can be found on the web) make for fascinating reading. I didn't really give it much of a look until I found out that one of my favorite bands had begun incorporating snippets of Scientology phrases/auditing procedures into their lyrics. Hubbard certainly was an interesting individual (great, uh, singing voice also). Wasn't William S. Burroughs a Scientologist at one point back in the 60's?
 
 
Saturn's nod
18:38 / 10.06.07
I think that Scientology may be guilty of having a setup that can easily be abused ...

This isn't to say that they don't abuse this setup as standard practice or that it isn't in place specificially to be abused, but rather that there is still reasonable doubt on the issue.


Sure. Given 'human nature'* and the tendencies of groups I think it's wisest to aim at collective activities in which it's more rather than less difficult for people to be coerced.

* by which I mean the well-documented tendency of humans to abuse authority and exploit the weak, rather than anything else.
 
 
*
18:48 / 10.06.07
I have the personal experience of a close relative to give me cause for concern about Scientology. No one I know personally has been killed by psychiatry. I believe that there is abuse in psychiatry and in other religions, but most have oversight that says that kind of abuse is wrong, rather than supporting it as a fundamental part of their operations.

If this were a court of law, none of this would be cause to convict the CoS. In a court of law there is reasonable doubt. In the court of my own judgment, I act according to what I know and can infer. Because of my concerns, I can't foresee a situation wherein I would support Scientology or support a friend or family member in joining.
 
 
Quantum
18:54 / 10.06.07
Holy crap. The Cult Awareness Network was bankrupted by the scientologists, who then bought the logo, name and now run it without disclosing that they are followers of dianetics.

Link
 
 
Saturn's nod
19:18 / 10.06.07
From Operation Clambake, more allegations: "In addition, the cult has huge files on members with all their most personal confessions from auditing sessions. CoS has a history of using these files against defectors to either force them back or into silence. Many may not be in a situation where they can quit."
 
 
grant
17:32 / 11.06.07
I'm sure we had a thread on Scientology before, didn't we?

I was a young freelancer when Lisa McPherson died, and learned about Scientology covering that story.

My father was also friends with Paulette Cooper, who had done some writing for (with?) the National Enquirer before the CoS decided to take her down. (She's still here, but went through hell.)

Ah - here's one older discussion on the church.
 
 
grant
17:36 / 11.06.07
Google:

Narconon
Sterling Management seminars
Bridge Publications
Applied Scholastics
 
 
misterdomino.org
18:06 / 11.06.07
A brief summary, from what I understand: Hubbard, a former occultist, writes a book that seems oddly linked to science fiction, but perhaps with enough nuggets of psuedo truth in it to seem possible, then proclaims it as truth, gains followers and power, essentially making the book real . Sounds familiar...
 
 
Quantum
19:09 / 11.06.07
Sounds like a bet with Heinlein.
 
 
Quantum
17:30 / 05.07.07
Germany bans Cruise for being a Scientologist

Cruise, and a number of his Hollywood friends, signed an open letter to the then Chancellor Helmut Kohl about Germany's "persecution" of Scientologists. "In the 1930s, it was the Jews. Today it is the Scientologists," it said.
...
"I think because Scientology has so many tricks up its sleeve, it is very difficult to protect individual people or institutions," Ursula Caberta, head of the Scientology Task Force in Hamburg, said in an interview earlier this year. "We have to ban it, at some point."



The more I find out, the less funny this cult gets, they are really sinister and dangerous. Our local paper ran a piece on them and got a bullet through the post, for example.
 
 
Quantum
17:35 / 05.07.07
Almost forgot the 'Church' of Scientology got their tax exemption by 26 years of thousands of lawsuits against the IRS and by blackmailing people who worked there, bugging offices etc.
 
 
Quantum
18:48 / 05.07.07
"Scientology's tax exempt status and billion dollars in tax forgiveness was aided by the efforts of an IRS official secretly working for the cult."

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/irs_infiltrated.html
 
 
Pyewacket The Elder
19:33 / 05.07.07
The more I find out, the less funny this cult gets, they are really sinister and dangerous. Our local paper ran a piece on them and got a bullet through the post, for example.

Hah I bet it was those sinister anti-scientologists wot sent that bullet to put us reeel scientopholists in a bad light. Now where's my thetan-cameras and blackmail toolkit? ALL Hail the L.!!!

< real contribution > I did meet some 'ologists at a park fair and had a go on the E-meter. All the while the chap was saying "so do you KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE HYPNOTISED, because we ALL GO INTO HYPNOSIS SOMETIMES...etc etc"

He seemed to mention HYPNOSIS a lot and I think this might make alarm bells sound for those amongst us who are aware of the hypnotic tool called 'embedded commands'. Not saying that was what was happening per se, simply that I noticed a pattern of language which has found particular application in the field of..umm...HYPNOSIS! < / Real Contribution >
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
21:13 / 05.07.07
Yeah aren't all the extreme anti-scientologists just evil and spooky Christians who think devil cults are out in the woodlands molesting children. The are people who like to deprogram people the rough way (with nipple clamps and the like...I made that up, but you get the general idea).

Scientology is a religion...its just one that many people find extremely trite and stupid and weird. Calling it a cult because it's weird and counter to the larger Western Democratic culture, ignores the larger issue that all religions are cults in one form or another.

The word culture was no doubt cultured from the word cult.

We can, however, judge by our standards (which I assume to be some form of rational humanism beneath our experimental beliefs...even for some the more esoteric people here) whether or not Scientology is a religion whose beliefs are ultimately beneficial or dangerous to the larger culture and the values we hold dear.
 
 
Pyewacket The Elder
21:32 / 05.07.07
Scientology is a religion...

Okay lets do this...Scientology is a religion.

Dictionary.com:

re·li·gion
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

So where does the line between Scientology as self-help program (dianetics) and religion (scientology) begin?

When I am more compus mentis I will wax lyrical regarding the relation between the Dianeics e-meter clearing process and other forms of recent therapy as opposed to the 'aliens+VOLCANO' religion aspects....

Required reading
 
 
Bandini
11:02 / 06.07.07
I personally feel that Scientology is not a religion but i actually think it is somewhat irrelevant to a discussion of it's merits and it's actions.
It's status as a religion would not excuse some of Scientology's apalling behaviour.

I am not a member of any religion myself and have no belief in God or any spiritual entity. I personally feel that spirituality can be a positive thing and organised religions are occasionally beneficial to those seeking help but it seems to come at a cost.

Scientology seems to take elements of psychology and then denies any value in psychology and pschiatry profession. It places this practice in the hands of untrained amateurs who are then audit (psychoanalyse) recruits.

I say recruits as Scientology actively seeks out those that it feels can help it's cause not just in numbers but also in their influence on society. Just look at 'Project Celebrity' initiated in 1955; perhaps a reason Tom Cruise has befriended David Beckham with such verve.

I will get back to this topic soon as i find Scientology very fascinating and scary but i have to get back to work.
I work round the corner from the Church of Scientolgy on Totten Court Road (London) and am approached daily.
 
  

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