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Scientology

 
  

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electric monk
01:40 / 17.02.08
Discussion's focused more on the organization than the belief system, and then the Tom Cruise video erupts on page two and...here we are. So I'm going to propose the move to Switchboard, and I don't think there's any need for copy/pasting. The summary will need a massage, of course...

I've been enjoying this thread a great deal. Thanks, everyone, for updates and links. This has all been facsinating, and I'll definitely follow the thread wherever it may roam.
 
 
electric monk
01:44 / 17.02.08
Always refresh your thread before you hit post, kids.

I'm holding off on the move proposal...
 
 
Olulabelle
08:24 / 17.02.08
I think it's fine where it is. Yes, it's topical but it's still about a Temple subject. It's good to have this kind of ongoing discussion and although the protests would make the thread also sit well in Switchboard it doesn't feel wrong for it to be here. I vote to leave it as I said in Policy.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:58 / 17.02.08
That's cool- sorry for derailing it with Policy stuff!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:00 / 17.02.08
Funny video of Anons being stalked by OSA.


Incidentally, I got an email from YouTube support this morning- they say the message to $cientology video was taken down "in error". I stroke my chin at them.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:13 / 17.02.08
Interesting post from Tory Christman about Co$'s reactions to the demos.

I like the idea of the "your families miss you" banners too. It's good that Anons are trying to avoid the use of words like "hate".
 
 
Haloquin
12:48 / 17.02.08
Besides, you can't get more Templey than the Anonymous being outed as aliens from the tail of the Big Dipper. - grant

The unfortunate side of that is that it helps people inside the church (at least the ones who have already swallowed the alien thing) ignore what Anon are saying. Very clever.

It might not stop anyone outside from listening, but I wonder if individuals who swallow it will use it as an excuse to get physically violent or something. Is being mind-controlled by aliens worse than being SPs? Anyone with a better understanding than me on what the implications might be care to comment?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:39 / 17.02.08
I don't think you CAN be much worse than being an SP, but it's an interesting point...

The general consensus seems to be to avoid attacking the beliefs themselves, other than chucking in the Xenu stuff which lower-level $cilons might not know about yet. That's why it's so great the FZers are on board- it takes it out of the region of religious hatred and places it firmly in the camp of attacking a dangerous criminal organisation.

The most amazing thing is how many people (like myself) who were initially largely in it for the lulz have educated themselves and are now treating it as Serious Business. The amount of posts in various places about "I haven't even looked at /b/ in over a week" before getting down to some sensible and hard-headed debate about protesting tactics or whatever is pretty massive.
 
 
Char Aina
15:37 / 17.02.08
If anyone hasn't seen this film with hardeep singh kholi, I'd advise checking it ut. More in keeping with the original thread remit perhaps, he takes on the techniques of hubbard with the freezoners.

It's pretty interesting, and he is pretty charming. It is almost an hour long, but it's good viewing.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:44 / 17.02.08
See, it was only recently that I learned that the Cult Awareness Network has, for a long time, NOT been the useful anti-cult organisation I thought it was. (Last time I gave it any thought was back in the 80s when the Moonies were seen as a huge threat- since then I've assumed it still did the same thing as it did back then).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:42 / 17.02.08
LULZ!!!

And I, personally, think LULZ are the key to success in this whole thing.

(Check the url if LULZ are unforthcoming. LULZ will then ensue. Apparently .su domain names are bloody expensive, and the Co$ has no legal standing in Russia, so can't do shit about it!)
 
 
bjacques
14:11 / 18.02.08
In Dutch, "lul" means penis and "lol" means fun, so meaning extra LOLs and lulz for local hackers.
 
 
pony
02:21 / 19.02.08
Oh, fuck...

tl;dr thread summary: Videographer/outspoken CoS critic Shawn Lonsdale found dead in his Clearwater bedroom of an apparent suicide (car exhaust-->hose-->window-->room). Speculation about Scilon frame up bounces around, similarities to l.ron's son's death mentioned, condolences expressed, questions raised over the fact that this first came to light via a poster on ARS claiming to be Anomymous before the PD had made any anouncement.

Clearwater PD have apparently ruled it a suicide and found a note, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more details coming in over the next few days. Bad news indeed, and unfortunately probably not the last of it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
03:04 / 19.02.08
Yeah, that all looks very dodgy indeed. Been trying to follow the story on Enturbulation- saw a post Monday evening about it which looked like it had been debunked, then sadly it got confirmed later on. REALLY bad shit.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:02 / 19.02.08
In happier news: Anonymous announces the next push: Operation Reconnect.

Ties in beautifully with the ideas about "your family still love you" banners.
 
 
jamesPD
13:57 / 19.02.08
In other Scientology news, Mike Rinder, a high-ranking member of the cult, recently left the organisation and is in hiding.

In the Mike Rinder wikipedia entry I also found a link to an interesting letter by Jenna Miscavige, the neice of the cult's leader; David Miscavige.
 
 
grant
17:32 / 19.02.08
St. Pete Times on the Lonsdale "suicide."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:09 / 19.02.08
From what I'm reading over there, it looks like Clearwater has a lot of $cilons on the police force. THAT can't be good for impartiality.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:53 / 20.02.08
New Tory Christman/Magoo video on Fair Game.

Wise Glasses Lady is wise. I love that even she's calling Mark Bunker "Wise Beard Man" now.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:41 / 21.02.08
This could potentially be fucking huge like Xbox.
 
 
Haloquin
16:52 / 21.02.08
Epic win.

The last comment on that thread is currently one asking if messages should be directed towards the teens born into Sci... what do people think of this practically?

My gut reaction was to wonder where kids would go if they tried to get out? I mean, if they've got no contact with non-sci family, and they don't know about kids shelters/charities that can put them in touch with family or people to looks after them... would this just put them in more danger?

If it does look like kids will be targetted, what would be a good practical move for making sure they know where to get help if they escape... and isn't there a danger that this will be seen as some kind of incitement to run away? Is that illegal?

*prays hard*
 
 
grant
18:08 / 21.02.08
Totally. I'm a little surprised.

I mean about the Xbox. About the teens... well, they're only going to be teens for eight years max. Then they become grownups. Or something like that.
 
 
Haloquin
18:24 / 21.02.08
Does anyone know what there is in the way of support for people generally who get out?

And given that Anon is completely decentralised, is there any real support for Anons who get squished?

On a slightly different note... I've been arguing that Anon is no longer what it was, it isn't just a *chan plaything, or merely a way to get lulz anymore, its bigger than that. This is my impression, would many people here agree with that?
 
 
pony
19:20 / 21.02.08
I would definitely agree that the Anonymii that are fighting scientology have transformed "Anonymous" as a whole (i think Stoatie mentioned something earlier in this thread about how weird it was to watch the *channers spontaneously developing a social conscience), but it has to be kept in mind that the Anonymous that's making waves right now is only a sub-section of the traditional Anonymous. It also needs to be remembered that this war is largely a happy coincidence and the result of Anonymous finding a target that provides the maximum opportunity for lulzy mayhem while being an enemy that's actually reprehensible enough to win supporters to Anonymous' actions.
 
 
Saturn's nod
19:42 / 21.02.08
Support for scientologists wishing to leave includes

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/scihelp.htm

Also more generally Safe Passage Foundation has a care for children raised in 'High Demand Organisations'.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:59 / 21.02.08
It also needs to be remembered that this war is largely a happy coincidence and the result of Anonymous finding a target that provides the maximum opportunity for lulzy mayhem while being an enemy that's actually reprehensible enough to win supporters to Anonymous' actions.

There definitely seems to be a divergence between the *channers who AREN'T involved in the anti-$ci stuff (indeed, there are those who take the view that "we should LOVE the $cientologists! They ruin people's lives, they take stupid people's money and every now and then they kill someone! They're AWESOME!") and those who are- I think a lot of Anons are like me, and were largely in it for the lulz to begin with, but have now done a lot more reading on the subject.

Obviously there's a big overlap, but I don't think there's too much worry that the movement will lose momentum next time the *chans find a juicy MySpace to take down.
 
 
grant
00:08 / 22.02.08
Well, I'm also inclined to believe that there are plenty of people (myself being one of them) who have friends or family who have found themselves on the wrong side of "fair game."

I mean, maybe it's just that I know a lot of tabloid journalists and psychiatrists, but if I mention "Scientology" to any random acquaintance, I've discovered that I've got a decent chance of getting back a reply that involves a lawsuit or stalking or some kind of not-very-funny harassment & abuse.

When Tory, in that video up there, talks about OSA creating an army of enemies, I think she's more or less on the money. There are a *lot* of people who have no love for this particular organization, and it doesn't take much to spur these folks into some kind of action. The lulz are just a bonus.

I mean, the Enturbulation forums weren't built by Anonymous - they were there first. Anonymous just made them convenient & pretty darn busy.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:22 / 22.02.08
Well, I'm also inclined to believe that there are plenty of people (myself being one of them) who have friends or family who have found themselves on the wrong side of "fair game."

Oh, of course. But a lot of the critical mass had to do with the *channers' quest for lulz adding to that already-extant core. I meant specifically Anonymous rather than the anti-$ci movement as a whole- I thought that was what palace politics was on about, but I could be wrong.
 
 
grant
02:15 / 22.02.08
The weird thing is I think the *channers are the core. They give people a reason to talk about Scientology. A center around which the stories start to come out and circulate, you know? It's not something that comes up in ordinary conversation - not something most folks dedicate much time to, even if they (we) know people who've been bankrupted or whatnot - but now there's a reason for it to keep coming up.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
02:46 / 22.02.08
Yeah, I guess you're right there... it's a very strange movement, in terms of how it's developed in the last few weeks, and could actually BE as new a development in activism as the more enthusiastic Anons say it is.
 
 
Haloquin
10:38 / 22.02.08
Stoatie - could actually BE as new a development in activism as the more enthusiastic Anons say it is

I'm inclined to agree. I'm looking forward to chatting with one of my active-activist friends next week about it and seeing how they feel it compares to the kind of actions/protests they've been involved in.

I have a feeling, however, that it won't be something that offers much in the way of new tactics for actions against other issues as part of what seems to be driving this is the obvious damage that is being fought against... its much easier to move against tA eVil CulT than, say, human rights abuses commited by various governments. I mean, here there is an obvious bad guy and an obvius target. Other protests aren't nearly as clear cut in what is targetted and what the morality is.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:27 / 22.02.08
A beautiful synthesis of lulz and Serious Business: Operation "Save The Prince".

If Anon can get Jazzy Jeff onside, then anything is possible. If.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:06 / 23.02.08
Hmm... looks like Jazzy Jeff may be a $cilon himself...


Interestingly, this is the first protest movement I've ever been a part of where serious consideration has been given to actually requesting police infiltration. (FWIW, I don't think it's at all a bad idea, under the circumstances).

Another couple of plus points in favour of the organisational side are coming out, too- firstly, as someone says in the thread, the nature of Anonymous means any threats TO Anonyomous (rather than to Cooper, or Magoo, or WBM) have to be made publicly... this is quite useful, really.

And secondly, watching the attempts by trolls and plants to hamper things online- for one thing, it's very difficult to troll "the Internet Hate Machine"... they're the ultimate trolls themselves (the only real threat in this sense comes from *channers who oppose the raids or who think a back-raid would be more lulzy)... and the memes are acting as a pretty good firewall- most of Anonymous speak this stuff like it's their first language. Anyone attempting to add authenticity to their baiting posts has a fairly high chance of fucking this up, by asking "how do I shoot web?" or addressing their "/B/rothers" (spot the mistake in that one). It's an extra layer of security.

(also relevant to that thread- if you're gonna go making threats, it's probably best to remember there are "hackers on steroids" in the area, who will have no hesitation in getting you v&).
 
 
Char Aina
17:03 / 23.02.08
Heh.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:45 / 25.02.08
Oh my sweet Xenu.

Conspiracy theories just got fun again!!!
 
  

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