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Bleach

 
  

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Triplets
20:41 / 25.04.08
Very, very coincidentally enough I was flicking through that exact scene in the manga volume yesterday, and wondered who the hell those three big bastards were. So thanks for that.

It also allows me to segue into something I forgot from the anime that, when the gillian rescue squad appear to hoover up Aizen, Gin and Tousen someone comments "there's something behind them! It's huge!". Revealing the eye of a truely hugeantic hollow that's bigger than the skyscraper gillian. Gave me chills. Vasto Lorde?
 
 
Seth
21:56 / 25.04.08
I saw exactly the same thing today and wondered exactly what you're wondering! The Espada are all Vasto Lorde and are all human sized, so it really does point to something we haven't seen yet.
 
 
Triplets
23:59 / 25.04.08
Are the Espada actually Vasto Lorde, though? Tesla states to Nnoitra that they're still looking for the Vasto Lorde. Grimmjow is an Adjuchas and Aaroneiro was a Gillian prior to shinigamification.

Actually, that was one of the big anvil-sized messages from the flashback between King Grimmjow and his fellow cannibals: that it takes something else, something beyond what a normal hollow is, to become a Vasto Lorde.

Just to pre-empt this... at the end of the Soul Society Rescue arc we have someone saying Soul Society would be knackered if Aizen found ten Vasto Lorde. Cue instantly to Aizen saying, "Welcome, my 20 brothers and sisters", leading us to believe he's found 'em already. However, like I've said, as far I know we've not seen them yet, just really powerful adjuchas/gillian Arrancar.

In my mind the Vasto Lorde have never actually been shown, unless I've misinterpretted something?
 
 
Seth
09:28 / 26.04.08
The source for my interpretation of Vasto Lorde comes from Bleach anime 115, manga 197. From the latter (because it's easier to just type out Hitsugaya's lines from the comic page):

Menos are separated by three categories.

The first kind is a "Gillian." These are the weakest type of Menos. Comparing them to a human hierarchy, they would be considered soldiers. There are many of them, and they all look and act the same... (To Ichigo): The Menos you fought with shortly before entering Solu Society was a Gillian. They are gigantic but they're also slow and stupid...

The second class: "Adjuchas." They are smaller and more uncommon than Gillian. A Gillian's battle prowess and intelligence pale in comparison to one of these. The only thing the Gillians outweigh them in is sheer population.

Lastly, we have the third class: Vasto Lorde. They are the most powerful of any Menos and their size resembles a human more than any Hollow. Their numbers are unbelievably small and they are known only to exist deep within Hueco Mundo, but... the strength of a single Vasto Lorde is above that of any Captain.

In addition to that, we don't even know how many Arrancar there are in total... as of right now, including Aizen, if there exist over ten Vasto Lordes, Soul Society is doomed.


During the paragraph in which Hitsugaya talks about Vasto Lorde, the panel strongly resembles Ulquiorra in silhouette, and in the pages or anime scene immediately following Aizen welcomes Yammi and Ulquiorra back to their "twenty brothers and sisters." The implication is that the human shaped Arrancar that we've seen are all Vasto Lordes.

If I'm correct (and I may be on shakier ground here) being an Arrancar functions independently to whether or not you belong to the Adjuchas or Vasto Lorde class of Menos. When the Grand Fisher returned he seemed to me to be an Adjuchas that had been Arrancarised, as did Iceringer and Demora who weren't powerful or intelligent enough to gain human form (hence Ishida's taunting). You can be an Arrancar and not be a Vasto Lorde. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

Going back to that sequence at the end of the Soul Society arc, what appeared behind the Gillian seemed to be far larger, as though you were only seeing its eye opening or mouth smiling. It would seem to be something that we haven't encountered yet due primarily to its size, but it hasn't been referred to once since. Part of me wonders whether it has any connection to Hell, which we've been taught to view as a place entirely separate from Hueco Mundo. Soul Society and Hueco Mundo seem to be paralleled quite a lot in the subtext, so I've been speculating a little as to whether Hell and whatever realm the King inhabits also mirror each other.
 
 
Triplets
16:07 / 26.04.08
Mm. Good stuff to think about. I'd already thought about the mirroring aspect as well (which makes me think about a Bleach barbemeet, in which we pash). One guess I had was that whoever the eye belonged to was somehow a mirror of Soul Society's king. Huge and super-powerful. A King of the Hollows basically. Your idea takes that further and I'm wondering now if Soul Society and Hueco Mundo may be various purgatories (regardless of what their residents might think), with Hell and the King's Domain being a truer Hell and Heaven, respectively.

In fact, with the expository heavy Grimmjow flashback stating it takes something more to become Vasto Lorde, it makes me wonder whether, Brimstone/Reaper-style, they might be escapees from Hell. Having that evil, consuming desire from even before death. That dark spark. Which would, actually, tie into your thoughts that the higher-level Arrancar (who may indeed be Vasto Lorde, though I remain unconvinced) might be following deeper urges/M.O.s, serial killer-esque.

Anyway, I wonder if Hell can be reached more easily from Hueco Mundo seeing as how, so far, the King's Domain can only be reached from Soul Society.
 
 
Feverfew
19:45 / 26.04.08
Sidebar - there's a Bleach TCG out, which most likely proves my theory that I live under a rock and miss such things, but still:



It falls just on the side of obsessive-compulsive, in it's desire to give most every single character their own card, including some of the more random ones.

Ryo:



Versus

Aramaki:



Not a problem!
 
 
Maat
15:00 / 29.04.08
168 - Is it me, or have Kira's eyes got even bigger?
 
 
Seth
20:23 / 29.04.08
Is that who I think it is, or someone posing as Maat?

I could get worryingly obsessed with that card game.
 
 
Maat
20:37 / 29.04.08
It's me. I made it here in full capacity finally. I am not allowing myself to even look at the card game..
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
14:52 / 30.04.08
You can be an Arrancar and not be a Vasto Lorde. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

You're not wrong, as evinced by Szayel Aporro Granz's Fraccion made up of experimentally altered Hollows that he'd had Aizen transform into Arrancar. How often that happens 'naturally' is another matter... the impression I have is that Aizen's schemes have radically deformed the weird Lamarckean ecosystem of Hueco Mundo, to the extent that a loser like Aaroniero can make it into the Espada. That was something I enjoyed about that character, the misplaced pride and sense of self-importance he had which was of course deflated so wonderfully, first by his getting pwned by an unseated Shinigami, and second by Aizen-sama not lifting a finger to help.
 
 
Feverfew
16:51 / 30.04.08
One last thing about the card game - it allows for proper Bleach-style fights wherein you have technically unlimited counters; if you attack and your attack is countered, you can counter that counter, which can in turn be countered, until one of you runs out of cards...
 
 
Triplets
20:34 / 30.04.08
One thing that sits on my mind is Aaroneiro specifically says that Aizen's Espada (all of whom he Shinigamified) all have a weakness to sunlight (or the artificial sunlight of Las Noches) which weakens them and cuts them off from their full power. Shades of a reversed Superman there (which would fit with Aizen's change from Clark Kent to Kal-El) and of vampirism. Which is fitting as Hollows seem to be the bastard lovespawn of the grim reaper, vampires, zombies (rampant cannibalism) and Eric Draven.

Aizen is clearly keeping a leash on his creations and notice how all the natural Arrancar, the Numeros, were phased out once he'd found out how to get the Hogyokou to stop flashing 12:00... It gives Rukia a valuable bit of intel to deliver to the Scoobies once she stops being dead.
 
 
Maat
10:35 / 07.05.08
Caplock_Bleach always does a suitably cracktastic summary of the latest Bleach anime episode just after it is shown in Japan.

It is here should you wish to read it.

*fidgets*
 
 
Seth
17:26 / 07.05.08
Maat tempts us with spoilers but we stay strong.

I'm starting to feel like the speculation killjoy of crushing Bleach orthodoxy, but I'm not sure I agree on the interpretation of Aaroniero Arruruerie's dialogue to Rukia:

Don't get so caught up in yourself. I can't use my power in sunlight, that much is true. But as long as I have a shadow I can use it as many times as I want.

Seriously... it may be for spying or something, I don't know... for me, though, it's only a burden. Creating something so similar to the material world's sun in Hueco Mundo, where we have nothing but darkness... especially for someone like me, who can only use his power in darkness...


I think differences of translation have different emphases, but in the context of what we've seen it appears to me that AA's weakness is something that effects him alone out of all the Espada. We've seen Halibel, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra and Grimmjow in sunlight without exhibiting a flicker of discomfort. Indeed, we've seen one of them deliver a finishing blow and two of them fight in sunlight, apparently unhampered. Dattebayo's translation, if I remember correctly, hinted that many Hollow were effected by sunlight, but it doesn't seem as if that's something that extends to all Aizen's Espada.

However it's agreed that the mystery of the sunlight still has to be fully answered. It's implied that it's there as a means of control, possibly to spy, definitely to limit some of the enemy's power. Interesting then that it's also implied that Gin diverted Rukia to face AA above ground rather than trying to get the two of them together in a basement. Is he attempting to even the odds a little?
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
14:42 / 08.05.08
Maat tempts us with spoilers but we stay strong.

I didn't, I read it straight away. Verrry entertaining.

#169: Has Dattebayo's torrent gone up yet? I watched another version this morning as I was jonesing but will probably DL theirs when it arrives due to inferior subs. Anyhow, lots of fun this episode, particularly the art lesson responses from Rukia and Orihime, Rukia bothering the piss out of Ichigo with her scouter (not yet crushed), and Orihime's R-rated imaginings over the new girl. Props also for taking the absurd revolving-door policy of the average anime high school to new heights with the transferees, and Nanao-chan giving the sad-sack Shinigami Men's Association (note Kira and Hisagi still wearing their male cheesecake outfits from Matsumoto's epic photo shoot) what for.
 
 
Seth
19:02 / 08.05.08
Yeah, that was all big silly fun. Rukia's effort for the art assignment has already won all kinds of awards for BEST MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF FOREVER (it's the expression on her face), a surplus of idiotic Isshin is always welcome (FREE TRAMAPOLINE! Isshin: "Welcome to ISSHIN WORLD!" Keigo: "It smells in here..." Isshin, in denial to the point of creating alternate universes: "No it doesn't!") and Ichigo's default position of winding up Ishida has plenty of mileage. Agreed that Orihime's bondage fantasy princess was TEH CUTTING EDGE OF TEH AWESOME and that the high school's transfer policy now seems like the pinnacle of knowing parody. Plus the muscled yet silent and full of sparkles Major Alex Louis Armstrong, Strong Arm Alchemist riffing dude may effectively transplant my favourite character from an otherwise uneven show. A very promising start to a possible Shinigami Cup Golden Arc too.

It says a lot that this is the status quo to which Bleach returns when it tackles the Elseworlds arena with a fill-in writing staff. The only moment that seemed a bit BUBBISH was Ichigo's shoehorned bankai.

Why is BUBBISH in my spellchecker?
 
 
Seth
19:06 / 08.05.08
Dattebayo's torrent is now up, by the way. I settled for second best too, but will soon be deleting the sub-par sub and keeping the footlong supersub.
 
 
Maat
16:38 / 09.05.08
169 is great fun. Loved Ichigo's comment about Kenryuu being just like Byakuya and Rukia's outraged denial, particularly as I was just thinking he was very Bya-lite.

Really good to see Tatsuki again. There needs to be more Tatsuki. Preferably with Orihime. In bikinis.

Also, When did Ichigo get a Quincy duvet? Is this Ishida's way of subtly warning off all these random shinigami who keep turning up in Ichigo's bedroom? Enquiring minds need to know.
 
 
Maat
16:39 / 09.05.08
Oh yeah and Orihime's dominatrix fantasy = WIN
 
 
Triplets
16:58 / 09.05.08
I lol'd.
 
 
Razor Wind
00:12 / 10.05.08
They've even given this arc its own name,like it's important or something .
Did like the reintroductions of the minor characters - I gave little "yay"s when I saw the teacher and Chizuru. Then the shoehorning of the three into Ichi's class,which was slightly less awesome. I had to pause and consider whether it would be worth continuing. The amount of lampshade hanging that's inevitably coming won't make it easier to accept; I'm having trouble simply fitting this into continuity already,what with the blatant relocation without explanation. I need more than "it's for filler",dagnabbit!

Yes,I am a Serious Fan - why do you ask?

Oh yeah and Orihime's dominatrix fantasy = WIN

I'd like to see more of the face she made then too.
 
 
Seth
00:53 / 10.05.08
It doesn't fit into continuity, in the same way that the Sealed Sword Frenzy doesn't, in the same way that Memories of Nobody doesn't. It's almost certainly going to last at least a year and if it doesn't I'll be very surprised.

This is the way this is running right now: if you want canon, read the comic and wait until the anime starts adapting again. None of this story will be canon. You can enjoy it for what it is or not bother. On the strength of the first two episodes I'm in, because it's a laugh and I can separate the real from filler easily without the one effecting my enjoyment of the other, especially now I'm up to date with the comic as well. If the anime turns bad I might consider junking it until we're back to Kubo's story.

As for the three Shinigami transferring into their class, of course it's daft. So was Rukia sleeping in Ichigo's closet and Hitsugaya's reinforcement team turning up at school in uniform (barely used after that initial moment) and ditching their leader to get into Strawberry's bedroom via the ceiling light (all of which is canon according to the comics). Bleach = silly sometimes, we should be trained to know that by now. The inference in 169 is that Urahara is behind it, which isn't far off my canon inspired theory that he's in cahoots with the teacher anyway. My working interpretation is that Karakura High = Marduk Institute and I'm decking anyone who says otherwise.

Mental note: do not post to Bleach thread when drunk.
 
 
Seth
01:04 / 10.05.08
When did Ichigo get a Quincy duvet?

This is the most important question right now.
 
 
Seth
01:08 / 10.05.08
Along with why two of the new Karakura-Bound Shinigami (see what I did there? BTW, their names aren't quickly to hand when drunk) seem to have Quincyish crosses on their collars. Accidental design coincidence? New Shinigami/Quincy hybrid? Hmmm...
 
 
Razor Wind
01:14 / 10.05.08
None of this story will be canon. You can enjoy it for what it is or not bother.

I know man,I know. It's just one extra little bit of silliness that tipped it over the point of believability for me. I want to like this,but this was one of the things I'm not used to.
 
 
Seth
07:58 / 10.05.08
As for the three Shinigami transferring into their class, of course it's daft. So was Rukia sleeping in Ichigo's closet and Hitsugaya's reinforcement team turning up at school in uniform (barely used after that initial moment) and ditching their leader to get into Strawberry's bedroom via the ceiling light (all of which is canon according to the comics). Bleach = silly sometimes.

You should be very used to silliness.
 
 
Maat
14:29 / 13.05.08
*pets Razor Wind* Aww, nevermind petal, you should come play in the shallow end of the fannish pool for a bit and just enjoy the silly. I'm guessing that pretty much all this filler can be classed as an AU for timeline purposes.

Personally I'm all for something a bit lighter for a while providing that we don't descend to the depths of the awful cake making episode. That was painful.

Just think, maybe if we all wish really hard Matsumoto will turn up in the next episode in a domme outfit and make Orihime's fantasies a reality!
 
 
Triplets
20:32 / 13.05.08
awful cake making episode

Only awful in the sense that awful cakes happened to be made, yes? Yes. The cake episode was great, from the tasting montage to Yumichika's hilariously angry soulcandy ("Shut your pie hole!").

Moar caek (making).

I've rewatched Orihime's bondage talk about a million times now. Her "I AM!!" face/voice is comedy gold.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
20:57 / 13.05.08
Just think, maybe if we all wish really hard Matsumoto will turn up in the next episode in a domme outfit and make Orihime's fantasies a reality!

Remember El Directo's theorising a while back that the entire Team Hitsugaya Go To School storyline was a pretext for getting Chizuru and Matsumoto in the same scene together? At some point the law of conservation of fan service has to make something like this happen. Actually Lisa would be a better candidate.

Other WIN things about this episode: Tessai's weirdly emphatic refusals to give Rukia any information (any scene with him gets a plus), the AWWW-inducing scene with Rurichio zoned out on the couch after a hard day's being a bossy little girl, and the horrifying answer to the question 'Why is her uniform the wrong size?' Once again, we're reminded that while Urahara is undeniably a pervert, pinning down exactly what kind of pervert he might be is a task beyond the reach of even Barbeloids.
 
 
Seth
06:56 / 14.05.08
Once again, we're reminded that while Urahara is undeniably a pervert, pinning down exactly what kind of pervert he might be is a task beyond the reach of even Barbeloids.

It's all too convenient... for lo, unto us is returned an expert, and ze writeth TEH PRONS.

On that note, seems I was wrong about Kenryuu and Enryuu's collars. Perhaps after the mind boggling Quincy duvet (AND ALL THAT IT IMPLIES) I was just seeing that blue cross everywhere.

We should all get T-shirts.
 
 
Maat
10:33 / 14.05.08
Cracktastic summary of next Bleach episode ahoy!

*snorts* 'Does Filler need a reason', may become my default response to everything from now on.
 
 
Maat
10:47 / 14.05.08
Moar caek (making).

You liked the cake episode? And people say I'm twisted. I fear you.

Caramel, the generally accepted fanon concerning Urahara in the circles I usually hang out in is that he is somewhat akin to those businessmen who buy schoolgirl knickers from vending machines.

I now feel obligated to write Urahara/Young Byakuya pr0n. I blame El Directo.
 
 
Razor Wind
17:08 / 14.05.08
@Ma'at: I know. But I wouldn't be on TV Tropes so much if I could sweep careless,broken narrative under the carpet easily .

Your suggestion of Matsumoto in bondage wear intrigues me .

...getting Chizuru and Matsumoto in the same scene together?
Chizuru x Matsumoto? GIMME.

Cracktastic summary of next Bleach episode ahoy!

They won me over when they called the silent servant BIG MCLARGEHUGE. Winner.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
18:48 / 14.05.08
It's time for some fantastic fanart. Bleach characters... if they were dogs. The customary twenty internets to anyone who can ID them all without checking the notes.
 
 
Triplets
18:15 / 15.05.08
Doggie win.

Just watched 170. Was alright. Nice to see Ichigo use a bit of noos in a fight for once.
 
  

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