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"Heroes" Series 1 (US and Torrents edition)

 
  

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Jack Fear
14:22 / 22.05.07
if she had shot him, would it have made any difference, since he can regenerate and Claire spat out a bullet once?

When she was shot in the gut, yeah. But it's where you shoot that counts.

Remember, Peter and Claire both got killed in the course of the season when some object (a tree branch in her case, a glass shard in his) got jammed into the brainstem; if a bullet remained lodged there, death would presumably be permanent.

This was discussed over the last couple of episodes, when Peter gave Claire the gun in the first place, and instructed her as to precisely where to shoot him.
 
 
Bear
15:16 / 22.05.07
Just finished watching it, quite liked it but I was expecting a bit more.

I thought they kept the Sylar v Peter set in the future brief because they were going to go all out in the finale but instead Slyar keeps choking people instead of the more sensible use of his powers which would be turning them upside down and bopping their heads into the pavement.

I also thought the flying into the atmosphere was a bit strange because I was assuming that a shot to the head would have been quicker and Peter would have come back to life once the bullet had been removed.

I was also hoping that Sylar was going to be off'd for good and they were going to work the show like Buffy with a new big bad every season but it seems like they might be doing that anyway what with the 'much worse' bogey man getting a mention. Maybe with that being the case Sylar will become the sort of Heroes version of Spike and pop and now and again causing a bit of bother.

Why didn't DL have a feel around inside himself and take out the bullet?

This is probably sounding overly negative but I thought it was lots of fun actually. Plus any show that teases the next season in the last episode gets a lot of love from me.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:31 / 22.05.07
>>>Fuggin' Hiro's take-on of Sylar, all that instruction by Daddy Sulu was a simple stab and nothing else? Sylar practically stood there while Hiro ran him through.<<<

While Sylar was distracted, no less. Not very dramatically satisfying in terms of heroism.
 
 
Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name
17:13 / 22.05.07
And finally, Nathan redeems himself for all his fucking assholiness shown throught the whole damn season.

Uh huh. But I thought he would. Little clues were strewn around about how he's actually a real softie and a decent guy underneath that gruff exterior. His mother even remarks upon it when Nathan first finds out that Claire is alive. Saying something along the lines about him having to sacrifice his loved ones and stop being so sentimental and soft. Later, Nathan even tears up when he receives a picture of Claire from his ex-girlfriend (Claire's biological mother). Also, there was much ado made out of how close the Petrelli brothers were and how Nathan, the elder, always looked out for Peter. Hence, Peter's need to seek Nathan out and ask for his help in the finale.

It's strange. I can't quite say what I liked about the finale. There's a lot NOT to like. Fuggin' Hiro's take-on of Sylar, all that instruction by Daddy Sulu was a simple stab and nothing else? Sylar practically stood there while Hiro ran him through. Utterly anti-climactic for all that they'd been building lo these many months.

Yes, I felt a little disappointed too. The Heroes all finally converge and fight the Big Bad and it's all so...pedestrian. I thought there would be more of a good ol' fashion all out comic book fight, instead we get a little skirmish that is low on action and effects. When Nikki stepped in, there should have been more of a bad ass fight. But all she does is whack Sylar with a parking meter, allowing Peter to catch his breath for the very mundane fisticuffs that follows. Incidentally, I don't recall Sylar picking up invulnerability powers, that whack from Nikki should have killed him or, at the very least, shattered his torso. Nikki's super strong - one punch from her knocked morphing girl a few feet back and unconscious. A blow from a steel parking meter with all of Nikki's strength behind it should have pulverized Sylar's organs into jelly. Meh. I suppose it can be fanwanked away by saying that Sylar used his TK abilities to slow and mitigate the blow.

As for Sylar's brain eating bit...it reminds me of a character from the Wild Cards books: Dead Head, a guy whose ability was to retain and capture all the knowledge and skills of someone by eating their brains. However, Dead Head's ability was offset by the fact that the more brains he ate, the more unstable and schizophrenic he got.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
23:53 / 22.05.07
Do I need SPOILER SPACE at this point?











"Hey look, the Petrellis just blew up! Oh, and the psychotic killing machine is slowly crawling towards a manhole right under our noses, ah well, that wont come back to haunt us"

I think the episode was a good ending to the season, however that is not saying all good things about it, or the season really.

Any time Hiro used his powers I never got the feeling that it should have worked. Sylar is about to take of Andos head, Hiro vanishes, Sylar stands around like an idiot for a few seconds, Hiro reappears, Sylar does nothing, Hiro and Ando vanish. The same thing happened in Kirby Plaza. Sylar was able to TK Peter and stop bullets at the same time, but Hiro pops in and he stands there getting stabbed.

The ordeal over shooting Peter still bugs. Obviously they can regenerate brain tissue if there is nothing in the way, and from close range the bullet would just blast through his head and the hole should heal up behind it. So yeah, bugged.

The Nathan redemption was telegraphed like whoa, but was handled fairly well. There is a bit of fan wank involved in explaining why Peter didn't just fly away his powers were going CRAZY and he couldn't fly!) but not enough to be annoying I think.

Surprisingly the kids in this episode didn't bother me until the bit where Parkman is getting loaded into the ambulance. I thought Micah showing off and Molly giving him the 'Cool!' look was pretty neat. Nikki and DL's bits didn't bore me like normal. I like that Nikki/Jessica seem to have merged into a super powered non-psycho. Also interesting that when Candice got knocked out and her power switched off she still looked like the Candice we know.

The flashback/timetravel bit with Charles was odd. It made me think that Peter had absorbed some of Charles' power (if he had one) and that was going to save the day. It was nice, actually, because for a while I was expecting something other then the ending that happened.

I have a theory about the problems with timing and movement (mostly Hiro related) but I need to run to dinner. More later unless someone beats me to it.
 
 
grant
00:10 / 23.05.07
I was pleasantly surprised by the Jessica resolution - I also think I like how everyone had these powers, but had psychological blocks to dealing with them . Everything in Hollywood is about therapy, I guess, but it was satisfying in this case.

I kinda think Sylar got all pause-y because he had so many choices all the time. Everything he did was deliberate, not instinctive.

And it seems like Nathan could've grabbed Claire and flown up with both of them, then dropped or thrown them. Except he couldn't think that fast, either. I suspect Claire will figure that out and be filled with regret, which I sort of like, in a dramatically satisfying way.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
01:55 / 23.05.07
And it seems like Nathan could've grabbed Claire and flown up with both of them, then dropped or thrown them. Except he couldn't think that fast, either.

Do you mean he could have grabbed Claire and Peter and thrown them? I'm not sure what purpose that would have served or why Claire would be filled with regret, am I missing something obvious?

Back to my earlier post now that I am full of food.

I think this episode (as well as some others) would have worked almost perfectly in comic book form. The showdown between Sylar and Hiro for example is drawn out IN the show, and looks ten times as dramatic as it actually was on screen. It was 3 frames worth of action, really. Frame 1 Hiro pops in, frame 2 Sylar says "You!" Frame 3 Hiro stabs him. In a comic with any kind of decent artist this would work. Watching it in live action though. It felt like there was an obvious pause between 'frames', and it made the whole scene seem choppy and a little lame.

As far as the very end though, wow. I am glad I had not been spoiled on that, because it was pretty kick ass. I am 99.99% sure that was Takei in the blue armor, which makes the question was it an ancestor, or is Hiro's father very, very old? I prefer the latter theory ("I have waited a very long time for a Nakamura to ascend") and can not wait for the resolution of that plot line.
 
 
grant
02:03 / 23.05.07
Do you mean he could have grabbed Claire and Peter and thrown them? I'm not sure what purpose that would have served or why Claire would be filled with regret, am I missing something obvious?

Well, if he flew over the Atlantic and dropped them, he may have survived himself.

If he scooped up both, Claire may have regenerated. I'm not sure if she'd twigged onto the fact that he used to need her around to regenerate or not, but still - she'd survived one (smaller scale) boom-boom, and Peter might, too. Depending, I suppose, on him BRANE. Maybe not. Buuut maybe.

Enough for her to wonder, I think.

By the way, just how big *was* the explosion?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
02:11 / 23.05.07
The size of the explosion is an interesting question.

I SUPPOSE you could say that we don't even know for sure if Peter was the bomb Hiro saw early on when he jumped to the day of the explosion. It would seem that an explosion large enough to take out most of New York would be pretty huge, and the one Hiro saw on his first trip to the future was.

Unless Nathan took them into low orbit I think an explosion of that size would still have likely rained radiation all over the east coast.
 
 
grant
02:23 / 23.05.07
Well, I'm suspecting he was smaller than Hiroshima. And Nathan seemed like he could fly about as fast as a fighter plane....
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
04:44 / 23.05.07
Yeah, he does move rather fast. Flying straight up, while being very iconic, does make me wonder how high they got, what with a lack of oxygen up there and all that.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:27 / 23.05.07
The final hero battle was pretty low-key, but I loved having all the characters in one place, even if most of them (despite having super-strength, phasing and TK!) just sat there staring like helpless civilians. The sense of strands coming together, people we've known for ages meeting for the first time ("call me Noah") was really effective in the last few episodes.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about generations before the season 2 teaser, because of Molly and Mikah as, clearly, the beginnings of a third-gen hero team.

Teaser-wise, I felt the reappearance of the Helix and the Eclipse icons in the last minutes were just that ~ easter eggish. I don't actually buy that the Helix means much at all ~ I think we have a situation where producers know that fans love spotting symbols in the back of shots and freezeframing them to 'shop them clearer for forum discussion, so they're playing with that.

Though again, Watchmen was doing the same thing with the radiation symbol, the clock and the smiley face: no real purpose to those icons interspersed in the comic text, except for a richer texture and a sense of themes building almost subliminally, woven into the whole fictional world.
 
 
Spaniel
07:29 / 23.05.07
Not sure I understand why Nathan should've taken Clare along. Does Peter still need her around to use her power? Do people think that Peter is dead? I know I don't, but should I?
To add to the list of niggling little questions, why didn't Hiro chop of Sylar's head while he had time paused? 'Cause he's too honorable? Was that why he shouted "Sylar", to get his attention, instead of just stabbing him in the back?
This thread has had to come up with a lot of stuff verging on, if not wandering into, fanwank territory to explain a lot of little details, which is a shame as I'm not sure any of it couldn't have been explained in-show, and when I say "explained" I don't mean with dry exposition.

On the subject of the new Bad, I think we're not just talking about someone to fill Sylar's villain-of-the-season shoes, I think we're dealing with someone tied into the show's mythology, and very likely someone who's an instrumental component in a much larger, possibly pan seasonal picture. That's what I'd do with someone much worse than Sylar anyway.

Speaking of Sylar, and putting his slightly absurd if genre-affirming escape to one side for the minute, I've very glad he hasn't been set up as an ongoing Big Bad, he's just not interesting enough to warrant that position. Also, I'm wondering what role Ma Petrelli's going to play next season - will she step right into Linderman's shoes? I'd like that as his organisation is ripe with plot potential.

Oh yeah, perhaps Peter got his weird vision power thing from his Simone's Dad?
 
 
Spaniel
07:34 / 23.05.07
pretty ballsy to have a season finale that actually wraps something up, instead of just begging you to watch next season. I love the idea of each season of Heroes being one long, mostly stand-alone-story.

I entirely echo that sentiment, Jack. I might be a rabid Lost fan but it's so nice to get a sense of closure from time to time, and specifically when you've got a long wait ahead for another episode.
 
 
Red Concrete
11:07 / 23.05.07
A few thoughts:

Sylar, just before his eyes went all glassy at the end, flashed through a bunch of faces and people - which I took to be the people whose powers he had absorbed. That along with the Sylar's blood smear had a beetle crawling in it - obviously a rebirth symbol..., to me means he has almost definitely lost his acquired powers. If so, then he's nowhere near as much of a threat, and becomes much more of the sly, sneaking, creepy minor villain that I think will suit him better.

There was something that made me think that Peter and Nathan survived. A line of dialog from Nikki, just after the explosion: "What happened to them?" The obvious answer being, they died in a huge explosion... this is either a really inane line for no good reason, or it's a planted line to sow doubt on their deaths.

I thought this episode was let down by the soundtrack only. Maybe it was the levels. I wasn't aware of any pacy music building up to climax, or a sense of the rapidity in Hiro's 'ports, or much sense of impending destruction from Peter at the end. I think for most of the Linderman building sequence the music was the standard theme with haunted vox and synths. Better music and sound FX are probably needed. The visual effects I thought were well done. Someone said they thought Sylar was getting all the expense - I didn't think this was true, it seemed well distributed and, in keeping with the rest of the series, specials were judiciously used.

And I agree, Elijah, I too thought that the lone samurai in the end sequence looked like Takei.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:35 / 23.05.07
I thought one of the soldiers in the Season 2 trailer said "kensei" when they encountered Hiro. Kensei is a legendary figure and one of Hiro's role models, isn't he? but I get the impression it's also a generic term just for a "sword saint". Anyway, at the time of watching I assume this was some clever time-twisting whereby Hiro actually is the legendary figure he later worships in the 21st century ~ that through a time-slip he was the one who performed those heroic feats. If you see what I mean.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:35 / 23.05.07
Perhaps all the anticlimatic stuff (Hiro vs. Sylar, etc.) means that the "prophecy" isn't completely averted. Sylar is still alive after all, and still has the Blow Up City power... kind of one of those "whew! crisis averted... oh, wait, that's not the real crisis, here's the real gigantic one" at the end of the series...
 
 
grant
12:57 / 23.05.07
Not sure I understand why Nathan should've taken Clare along. Does Peter still need her around to use her power? Do people think that Peter is dead? I know I don't, but should I?

I was thinking more from Clare's perspective -- she knows that he could do what she could do when she was around, thus might be getting wistful over what could have been.

I kinda think Peter's becoming Dr. Manhattan. The white light spilling off him was very Jesus Christ Superstar.



very likely someone who's an instrumental component in a much larger, possibly pan seasonal picture

Bad Wolf!

-----

Is it fanboyish to say that I felt a primal exaltation that so many arcs seemed to be settled with a good, old-fashioned pop to the jaw... well, Jessica's and Peter's, anyway.

TWO-FISTED!

And learning Bennett's first name was sweet.

-----

I too had the feeling it was Takei under the armor at the end. However, it puzzles me that if it *is* Takei, he wouldn't remember who it is -- or even if it's a son or a daughter -- who showed up in the 1600s (which is the implication of the waiting-for-a-Nakamura-to-ascend, isn't it?).
 
 
grant
13:00 / 23.05.07
Oh, and "kensei" (or "kensai" for those of us who misspent our youth with the Dungeons&Dragons "Oriental Adventures" expansion book) is more of a title than a name.

In Japanese, you'd append an honorific after a name - like, if Hiro was your boss, you'd call him Nakamura-san, but if he was your teacher, you'd call him Nakamura-sensei. And if he kicked sword-swinging booty, he'd be Nakamura-kensei, I suppose.

Anybody else notice there were bits of the Japanese that weren't captioned? Nothing major, just Hiro's full name was used a couple times, and I think the kensei's full name was too.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:38 / 23.05.07
However, it puzzles me that if it *is* Takei, he wouldn't remember who it is -- or even if it's a son or a daughter -- who showed up in the 1600s (which is the implication of the waiting-for-a-Nakamura-to-ascend, isn't it?).

I think it would be the same reason Future Hiro still thought he stabbed Sylar and Sylar healed. The time travel aspect of the show is not very deep, so Present Day Takei doesn't remember meeting Hiro in the past, because in the original timeline it never happened.
 
 
buttergun
14:49 / 23.05.07
Also underwhelmed by the finale. It seemed so slow-paced and convoluted. Questions:

HOW did Sylar send Hiro back in time? (Unless we're supposed to theorize -- like we had to when Sylar was able to snap out of Hiro's "stuck time" a few episodes back, and assume that Hiro was just in a confused state, and hence sent HIMSELF back in time, after being attacked by Sylar...)

Why didn't Peter just fly off into space by himself? Did he not acquire his brother's flying powers in the very first episode of the series? Why did he need Nathan to escort him? Why did they even need to use the gun ruse?

Why does everyone assume Nathan and Peter are dead? I have the nagging suspicion next season will open with the two of them in space, Peter will implore Nathan to drop him now that they're high enough -- Nathan will swoop upwards out of the blast...mounting minutes/scenes of tension, and there's Peter, way back down there on the surface, whole and alive. As another poster mentioned, Niki's inane "what happened to them?" question pretty much hinted at this.

Finally, was it just me or did the lead Samurai there in 1600s Japan look very much like George Takei?
 
 
Spaniel
14:53 / 23.05.07
Anyway, at the time of watching I assume this was some clever time-twisting whereby Hiro actually is the legendary figure he later worships in the 21st century ~ that through a time-slip he was the one who performed those heroic feats. If you see what I mean.

'swhat I was thinking. Him or his dad anyway.
 
 
Spaniel
14:58 / 23.05.07
I think we are supposed to assume that Hiro sent himself back in time accidentally. TBH, I'm not sure that one needs explaining.
 
 
buttergun
15:01 / 23.05.07
TBH, I think maybe it does. When your main villain -- who seems to have gained extra powers in the finale (ie his ability to handle a Niki super-punch) points at Hiro with an evil gleam in his eye, and then the next time we see Hiro in 1600s Japan...shit, you don't have to be on crack to see the implied connection. I realize it's most likely Hiro's own fault he's back there, but it's just another example of the hamhanded way things are often revealed on this show.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:06 / 23.05.07
Then stop watching it, butterguns - I know the board would have to live without your endless complaints about yet another TV show, not to mention your occasional misogynistic interludes, but I think we'd cope somehow.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:16 / 23.05.07
>>>>When your main villain... points at Hiro with an evil gleam in his eye, and then the next time we see Hiro in 1600s Japan...shit, you don't have to be on crack to see the implied connection.<<<

Except that's not quite what happened. Sylar motioned to Hiro and sent him flying though the air towards a building with his well-established telekinesis. Just before Hiro smacked into the brick wall he scrunched his eyes and vanished, teleporting somewhere, anywhere, to save himself from being pulped against the wall. Since it's also been well-established that Hiro's teleporting powers are occasionally random and uncontrollable, he accidentally ended up in feudal Japan.

It's never been even suggested in the series that Sylar has the power to point at someone and send them back in time.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:53 / 23.05.07
I'm also a little confused about why Peter needed Nathan to fly him into orbit, or why it would have made any difference if Nathan had picked up Claire, too.

Peter seems to have absorbed telekinesis and invisibility, and nuclear-hands ~ I thought his training with Claude was all about learning to use the powers he's incorporated from others, without even being near them.

Did he only come back to life in grande-mere Petrelli's house because Claire was nearby? Or was it because she removed the glass from his head, just as Claire needed a branch pulled out of her temple before she could heal herself?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:00 / 23.05.07
Re. my speculative theory that Hiro "is" Kensei, note that Ando reminds us at 30.59:

"Your whole life you talked about your favorite stories. Star Wars, Star Trek, Superman, Kensei. All the heroes you wanted to be. One day people will tell the story of... Hiro Nakamura."

At 43.14, I believe one of the soldiers does quite clearly yell "Kensei" as they spot Hiro.

So... potentially something there, I think.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:15 / 23.05.07
See, I thought the samurai were referring to the blue clad George Takei samurai as Kensei, since he was the one with the helix banner.

My assumption is that the red samurai were there to have it out with Kensei, and Hiro landed in the middle.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:42 / 23.05.07
Ah, entirely possible. I liked the time-warp theory whereby Hiro becomes his own hero, but maybe it's a stretch too far.
 
 
grant
17:05 / 23.05.07
Did he only come back to life in grande-mere Petrelli's house because Claire was nearby? Or was it because she removed the glass from his head, just as Claire needed a branch pulled out of her temple before she could heal herself?

Well, as a story point, it had to be Claire, but within the physical reality of the show, it could've been anyone.

I'm just thinking about *her* perceptions, since I don't think she knew about his control over the ability, but I have a vaguish memory of him explaining something about absorbing her abilities when she first met him in Texas, before Claude showed up. That's all. I don't think she knew he'd mastered the thing.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:11 / 23.05.07
OK, so if he's mastered the ability of regeneration, we can assume he's not dead I suppose (unless the blast ripped his body apart in a way the power couldn't salvage) ~ and I still don't understand the suggestions that Nathan would have been better off taking Claire with them into space, and that she'll realise this and regret it.
 
 
Spaniel
17:14 / 23.05.07
I don't think it's stretching things at all in that it would work, it just looks like that's not how things are turning out. Unless Hiro is set to meet a second version of himself - doesn't look like him behind the mask, however.

That said, is the fact that the Kensei's face is obscured by his mask simply an attempt at verisimilitude or is there something more to it? I'm thinking the latter.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:22 / 23.05.07
On watching it again I think his face is behind a mask so we see the exact same shot of the eyes we saw reflected in the sword during the training sequence in the previous episode.
 
 
buttergun
17:31 / 23.05.07
Yeah, I'd say it's highly unlikely Peter or Nathan are dead. I don't see Heroes as the type of show which would kill off its main characters. They couldn't even let Sylar die, and one of the main topics among many of the Heroes these past several episodes was, "How do we kill Sylar?" (Which isn't to say I'm sorry he's not dead, because Sylar's my favorite of them all.)

One thing I was upset didn't get explained this season was the Niki/Jessica angle. I remember a lot of confusion early this season, as her powers didn't seem comic-booky, moreso psychological/horror flick. Hopefully that will be devled into next season.
 
  

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